Brexit: A view from Germany

Blackleaf

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The EU will be the only loser if it plays games over Britain's departure...

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Brexit: A view from Germany

The EU will be the only loser if it plays games over Britain's departure

Markus Krall



The European Union's chief negotiator Michel Barnier and Brexit Secretary David Davis (image: Getty)

Markus Krall
15 July 2017
The Spectator
Frankfurt

‘This is not about punishing Great Britain,’ declared Sigmar Gabriel, Germany’s interim foreign secretary, on his recent visit to London. I fell about laughing, because this is precisely what’s going on. It is as obvious to us Germans as it is to the Brits: the EU cannot tolerate the thought of a successful United Kingdom outside the Brussels sphere of influence because, if that were allowed to happen, others might dare to start thinking about leaving the club too.

Everything we hear from Brussels flows from this. The EU presents itself as a champion of free trade, especially when its leaders are attacking Donald Trump, yet it does all it can to slow down, complicate and generally frustrate a free trade deal with the UK, the world’s fifth-largest economy. It talks as if keeping open borders with Britain is a great gift from the EU, rather than, of course, an arrangement of mutual benefit to consumers of all countries. Would the EU dare to enter trade negotiations in Washington, Tokyo or Beijing and demand payments for allowing access to EU markets? Why does it take this approach with Britain?

In Britain, it might seem that the EU embodies the mood of Europe — miffed at Brexit and determined to take a tough line. Don’t be fooled. The EU is unpopular in so much of Europe precisely because it does not speak for the people it purports to represent. The idea of a €100 billion ‘leaving bill’ seems as extortionate in Berlin as it does in Birmingham: why would Britain want to carry on making huge financial transfers to Brussels when these were one of the main reasons for wanting to leave? Quite apart from anything else, a British government which agreed to such an outrageous bill would surely be neglecting its fiduciary duties to its people.

‘The four freedoms of the common market are indivisible,’ the EU grandly declares — but this is self-evident nonsense. Do we seriously believe there can be no free trade in goods without also accepting the right of migrants, of varying levels of skills, to settle in one’s country and gain access to welfare? No free trade deal that the EU has negotiated with other countries makes any such demand — and for good reason: no country would entertain it. The assertion is preposterous, as the British voters calmly declared on 23 June last year.

Michel Barnier and his team try so hard to present the argument that the UK needs the EU more than vice versa. It is an arrogance which flies in the face of the evidence: that the rest of the EU runs a €120 billion-a-year trade surplus with Britain and that three times as many EU workers are resident in Britain than British workers are resident in the EU. Why would the EU want to put this at risk? Because being seen to punish Britain is a bigger priority than maintaining the health of your export industries.

Then comes the warning that making a Brexit deal with Britain will be difficult because it will involve the renegotiation of 30,000 regulations — working out at an impossible rate of 40 per day for the two-year duration of the Brexit talks. Barnier’s team seems not to appreciate that in trying to put across this point it is making an involuntary confession that the EU has flooded the continent with so many regulations, laws, executive orders and decrees that it has become impossible to comply with the law. As Winston Churchill said: ‘If you have 10,000 regulations, you destroy all respect for the law.’ Jean-Claude Juncker’s minions have exceeded this total by a factor of three.

This is one of the reasons that the EU has made itself so unpopular and why some want to leave. But the EU in its arrogance can’t see it. There is an efficient shortcut to the Brexit negotiations: do not negotiate every single paragraph of each and every regulation, but abolish them in large numbers, on both sides of the Channel.

The EU’s negotiators are approaching the Brexit talks like a game of chicken. As far as they are concerned, the one who first blinks will lose. The enemies in this game are not just the insubordinate secessionist rebels in London, but all countries and political forces toying with the thought of following their example — or even just those who dare to remind the EU of the principle of subsidiarity: the idea that nation states are, where possible, supposed to govern themselves.

Theresa May insists that she wants friendship, cooperation and alignment with Europe to the advantage of both sides. She comes across as genuine when she says, ‘We want to continue being Europe’s best friends.’ And this, of course, is dangerous: if European nations can be friends and trade freely without the need to accept edicts from Brussels, then what’s the power of Brussels? Why put up with Juncker, Barnier and friends? When Boris Johnson warned the EU against seeking to administer ‘punishment beatings’ to Britain as if in ‘some World War Two movie’ the EU reacted with fury — because there was so much truth in the Foreign Secretary’s analysis.

The EU is taking a risk, here. It is treating the Brexit talks as an opportunity to show other EU member states what happens to those who dare to leave. Might it frighten countries into staying, or heighten concerns about what it is becoming? The negotiators on the EU side of the table interpret the Prime Minister’s friendliness as weakness and start to express ever more impossible demands while using every opportunity to speak of ‘Britain’s historic mistake’.

To a great many of Britain’s friends, looking in from abroad, Brexit doesn’t look like a mistake. Instead, Britain looks like a country that has dared not to accept the unacceptable, and in doing so it poses a question to its European neighbours. What do we want to be? A prison of peoples keeping its inmates inside by threat of sanctions? Or a community of free peoples binding its members through an attractive proposition and renewing this promise every day with democratic governance, transparency, performance and fairness? On the continent, we behave as if option two is not possible. But if we continue to act like this, then there might be no one left in the club.

Dr Markus Krall is a managing director in Goetzpartners’ Frankfurt office and heads the Financial Institutions Industry Group.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/a-view-from-germany/
 
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justlooking

Council Member
May 19, 2017
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Not to worry, the UK isn't leaving.
They will go from being half in the EU, to being half out.

My biggest fear is being realized; the Remoaners will force a deal where the UK stays in the single market,
customs union, keeps freedom of movement, and then declares they have "left" the EU.

Not enough passionate leavers to be able to force the issue.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Not to worry, the UK isn't leaving.
They will go from being half in the EU, to being half out.

My biggest fear is being realized; the Remoaners will force a deal where the UK stays in the single market,
customs union, keeps freedom of movement, and then declares they have "left" the EU.

Not enough passionate leavers to be able to force the issue.

Considering both the government and Brexiteer Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party are both in favour of leaving the Single Market, the Customs Union and ending freedom of movement, I can't see this as being very likely.

Blood, sweat and toil will overcome 
the ambitions of the Brexit wreckers



Charles Moore
14 July 2017
The Telegraph
325 Comments


Lord Adonis has been making rather silly Brexit analogies Credit: Heathcliff O'Malley


When Lord Adonis, the Labour peer and chairman of the National Infrastructure Commission, announced this week that Brexit was like our appeasement of Nazi Germany in the 1930s, I struggled to understand the comparison.

What is the similarity between sucking up to a dictatorship on the European continent and legislating, following a referendum, to take power back from the European continent and govern ourselves once again?

Who is Neville Chamberlain in this analogy? Who is Hitler? Surely the Blairite Lord Adonis does not mean to imply that Jeremy Corbyn is our new Winston Churchill?

After a bit, I realised I was missing the point. Lord Adonis, articulate though he is, was not making a considered historical judgment. Like most Hitler comparisons, his bad-taste “appeasement” outburst has to be understood psychologically, not reasoned with. Psychology such as his governs opposition to the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, which the Government unveiled on Thursday.

Lord Adonis, and large swathes of the political/administrative/academic/media Remainer classes which he adorns, are very, very upset by Brexit. Because they move mainly among people of like mind and consider themselves cleverer than the voter in the street, nothing prepared them for last year’s Leave vote. Throughout their careers, they had disregarded the arguments on the other side and despised the people who made them. They always believed that one of the virtues of the EU was that it was sewn up in their favour.


Who is Churchill in this bizarre Brexit analogy? Credit: Oliver Hoslet / Pool/EPA

Then it turned out that it wasn’t. It was the most terrible shock for them that the largest number of people voting for any single thing in the whole of British history – 17.4 million – voted to leave it. The shock was redoubled when the democratic result – unlike in almost all other EU referendums – was not reversed. And when they went to law to force a parliamentary vote on Article 50, the bitter fruit of their victory was that 494 out of 650 MPs voted for it, thus starting the process and setting the date of departure.

Some Remainers even organised a Commons amendment to keep Britain in the customs union and the single market, but this was defeated by 322 votes to 101.

So they are beside themselves. Like people recently bereaved or deserted, they veer between rage, grief and fleeting passages of cold lucidity. They dither. Some say they want the gentlest possible Brexit, others that Brexit must be stopped at all costs. Most of them, I guess, sometimes want one, sometimes the other. The CBI wants an indefinite transitional period whose length Britain could not control. Is that a cunning way of staying in, or just plain stupid? Possibly, it doesn’t know itself.

You can see the Remainers’ confusion in their reaction to this week’s Bill. Despite its nickname of the Great Repeal Bill, it comes close to the opposite. It does jettison the European Communities Act of 1972, but it is more like a non-repeal Bill. It turns EU law into British law, until such time as we wish to alter it. By doing so, it tries to avoid the “cliff-edge” which Remainers say they dread. You would think they would support it.

The arrangement partially resembles the way the newly independent American colonies or the government of India took our law with them when they threw off the British yoke. But the disjunction is less dramatic than that, since Britain, when joining the EEC, kept its own law even as it subjected itself to European jurisdiction. When we leave, we are not starting with nothing but what our former rulers in Brussels gave us: we are reactivating what we had before.

Remainers object to the “Henry VIII” powers the Bill grants to ministers to alter the details of incorporated European law later. Yet, for the past 45 years, they have not objected in the slightest to the EU system which has imposed thousands and thousands of these laws upon us without parliamentary vote. To be able to reduce so many laws over time, practicality requires that we treat the problem homeopathically. What Brussels imposed by the stroke of a pen, we can similarly strike out.

The Remainers start to throw up chaff on other aspects. What about the rights of the devolved parliaments, they protest – though no existing powers would be removed from Scotland or Wales or Northern Ireland. Seeking some excuse to oppose the Brexit it supported at the general election, Labour now demands that we incorporate the EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights – a sure-fire way of letting our judges become our rulers. There are even some MPs claiming to be horrified that the UK has to leave Euratom, though most of them probably managed to get through their adult lives until now without knowing what it is.


Outgoing Liberal Democrats leader Tim Farron has threatened Theresa May with "hell" over the Repeal Bill. Whatever that means Credit: Yui Mok/PA Wire

One can have sympathy for Remainers. Most are sincerely concerned for the future of their country. They are fearful. By all means give them therapy. But do not assume they are in a fit state to control the legislation, or that they have a mandate to do so.

If you go to a political party in London just now, however, as the parliamentary session draws to its sweaty close, the air is full of complaint about how hard everything is. Every moan from people like Lord Adonis is magnified by the sections of the media which lost last year. No one thinks seriously about the dilemmas facing the European Commission on the other side of the table, but concentrates on our own shortcomings in the talks. The hung Parliament makes every vote losable. The whims of each individual MP start to matter. The Government could, in theory, fall. The Leave case is muted.

Poor Tim Farron, on his way out, shakes his fist and promises the Government “hell”. As a serious Christian, he should know what the word means, but there is little reason to tremble. Even if the Remainers knew what to do, would they dare do it? How can they find common ground which both Leave and Remain could inhabit? Would this Parliament, 84 per cent of whose current Members stood for parties committed to leaving the EU, really renege on their promises?

Theresa May wouldn’t survive a day if she did. Even Mr Corbyn, who nowadays displays a slippery quality for which his previous 33 years in Parliament had not prepared us, surely will not dare go to the country claiming that we’re not going to leave after all. To do that, we would have not only to block this Bill, but repeal Article 50 and overturn the result of the referendum.



If you think about the consequences of wrecking the Bill, you have to conclude that its opponents are either bluffing or mad. I see little sign of the latter although, as I say, a few people like Lord Adonis are over-excited.

The difficulties of leaving the EU are formidable. As Lord Adonis says, it is “a very big step”. But it is little compared to the great secessions and decolonisations of history. If we want it done – and the public have shown by their votes that they do – it will happen. It is a matter of will. The details are not the issue. The problem, to use another word which echoes to us from the 1930s, is defeatism.

Blood, sweat and toil will overcome
 
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justlooking

Council Member
May 19, 2017
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Considering both the government and Brexiteer Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party are both in favour of leaving the Single Market, the Customs Union and ending freedom of movement, I can't see this as being very likely.

Corbyn and Labour cannot be trusted on this issue at all, they will twist turn and lie to trip up the government,
and most Labour still want to Remain. They are traitors of the highest order to the UK.
Also the EU has a lot of influence, and the meeting last week of Bernier with Corbyn, Sturgeon, and Jones, suggests
some backroom planning is afoot. Note the complete lack of statements after the meetings, and the media
dropped it like a hot potato.

But as I said, the deal will be to keep the 4 freedoms but 'leave' the EU, thus ensuring
they really don't leave at all.

We will see, but it's not looking good right now.
I'll bet all those Ukippers who went back to Labour are feeling rather stupid these days.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Corbyn and Labour cannot be trusted on this issue at all, they will twist turn and lie to trip up the government,
and most Labour still want to Remain. They are traitors of the highest order to the UK.
Also the EU has a lot of influence, and the meeting last week of Bernier with Corbyn, Sturgeon, and Jones, suggests
some backroom planning is afoot. Note the complete lack of statements after the meetings, and the media
dropped it like a hot potato.

But as I said, the deal will be to keep the 4 freedoms but 'leave' the EU, thus ensuring
they really don't leave at all.

We will see, but it's not looking good right now.
I'll bet all those Ukippers who went back to Labour are feeling rather stupid these days.

Jeremy Corbyn has for decades been anti-EU. What's the chances of him suddenly deciding that he wants Britain to stay in the EU after all now that we have voted to leave?
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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Who is Churchill in this bizarre Brexit analogy? Credit: Oliver Hoslet / Pool/EPA

I'll tell you who:

Winston Churchill
calling for a United States of Europe

Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister (1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a 'United States of Europe'. Following the Second World War, he was convinced that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all.

Read more about Winston Churchillpdf(616 kB)
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history/founding-fathers_en#box_4

The guy playing Churchill is the EU negotiator
 

justlooking

Council Member
May 19, 2017
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Jeremy Corbyn has for decades been anti-EU. What's the chances of him suddenly deciding that he wants Britain to stay in the EU after all now that we have voted to leave?

Corbyn is out for Corbyn, and his team will do anything to get him elected PM,
including selling the UK out and down the river.
And in case you didn't notice, he still doesn't even command the Labour Party.
The amendment to flat out stay in the single market was supported by 50 Labour MPs.

Honestly, sometimes you are a bit thick, if you think for a second Corbyn
will carry out a real Brexit.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
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Corbyn is out for Corbyn, and his team will do anything to get him elected PM,
including selling the UK out and down the river.

If they think they can get him elected PM - which can only by 2022 if Theresa May calls another election, which is stupendously unlikely - then vowing to overturn Brexit isn't the way to do it. He'll be trounced.

The amendment to flat out stay in the single market was supported by 50 Labour MPs.

Both Corbyn and the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer John McDonnell are both committed to taking Britain out of the Single Market and the Customs Union.
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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If Theresa May's government falls to a non-confidence motion, and it could at any time if she doesn't dance to the Orangeman's jig, Corbyn could be prime minister in September. Her grasp on power is even flimsier than Trump's is becoming.
 

Blackleaf

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Corbyn could be prime minister in September.

How? The Tories would still in power - as elected by the British people - but under a new leader: Brexit Secretary David Davis or the Leave campaign's Boris Johnson probably being the two favourites.

The only way there would be another election would be if two-thirds of all 650 MPS voted for it.
 

Curious Cdn

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How? The Tories would still in power - as elected by the British people - but under a new leader: Brexit Secretary David Davis or the Leave campaign's Boris Johnson probably being the two favourites.

The only way there would be another election would be if two-thirds of all 650 MPS voted for it.

It doesn't work that way. Theresa May herself would not fall. The government would fall, May and all. There are two options, then: the writ is dropped and an election is called or the opposition goes to the Queen and proposes to form a government. She may say "yes" although it is seldom done. It was just done recently in British Columbia, where they have essentially the same system.
 

Blackleaf

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It doesn't work that way. Theresa May herself would not fall. The government would fall, May and all. There are two options, then: the writ is dropped and an election is called or the opposition goes to the Queen and proposes to form a government. She may say "yes" although it is seldom done. It was just done recently in British Columbia, where they have essentially the same system.

There's a problem for those hoping the democratically elected government of Theresa May can be toppled by a vote of no confidence - it's called the DUP.
 

Curious Cdn

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There's a problem for those hoping the democratically elected government of Theresa May can be toppled by a vote of no confidence - it's called the DUP.

I'm not hoping for her government to fall. I 'm just pointing out that it is incredibly weak and their mandate to carry out Brexit is also incredibly weak.
 

Curious Cdn

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Despite the people voting for it in the referendum and then electing Mrs May to carry it out?

Thin ice ... where is it written that your referenda are binding? The people just barely elected the Tories led by Mrs. May. It was/is weak.
 

Blackleaf

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Thin ice ... where is it written that your referenda are binding?

What kind of democracy would Britain be if the government held a referendum but then just ignored the result - the biggest democratic mandate in British history - because it didn't like it?

However, when the Remoaners keep banging on about how the referendum was only "advisory", they conveniently ignore this in the expensive pro-EU leaflet sent to all households:



The people just barely elected the Tories led by Mrs. May. It was/is weak.

They elected her. They obviously feel she is better at securing Brexit than an IRA-supporting Marxist clown.
 

Danbones

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You'll notice that certain folks around here seem to like that marxist clown...
Like they liked hillary and hate the now non marxist russians
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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I expect the EU to fall apart in series of refits and restarts over the next decade. Every resurgence of the EU, as with the election of a rabid proponent of intensifying EU integration like Macron, something will disrupt it. The EU is falling apart from it perimeters inwards. Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece are all on the critical list of EU casualties. Europe is awash with refugees and terrorists. It's banks are failing. Industry is abandoning the continent. The EU is a failure, its demise is imminent, if slowly encroaching. Germany and France will likely be the last to fall.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Asking Blackshirt's opinion on what the EU should do with Brexit is like asking an Israeli Likud politician what the Palestinians should do about peace with Israel.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I expect the EU to fall apart in series of refits and restarts over the next decade. Every resurgence of the EU, as with the election of a rabid proponent of intensifying EU integration like Macron, something will disrupt it. The EU is falling apart from it perimeters inwards. Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece are all on the critical list of EU casualties. Europe is awash with refugees and terrorists. It's banks are failing. Industry is abandoning the continent. The EU is a failure, its demise is imminent, if slowly encroaching. Germany and France will likely be the last to fall.

I suspect you have gotten it wrong with the nations you have listed. Currently they are among a group of EU nations being kept afloat by EU subsidies. They are hardly likely to jump ship and go it on their own. And the refugee issue is all about proximity and not about the EU itself. If Canada and the US were less than 200 kilometers from Africa we'd be flooded with refugees too.

Also, currently the EU features seven of the world's top 20 banks and if you google Eu bank failures you will find that all of the banks in Europe that are struggling seem to be in Italy. As for its economy the EU economy grew at a rate of two percent in 2016 which is about the same as that of the US.

You may be right. Perhaps the EU is doomed, but I doubt that the thousands of complex agreements that tie it together will disappear any time soon.