Premier Brad Wall says Saskatchewan deficit will be higher than forecast

[Ron in Regina]

I get it Ron, and am right with you.

The voluntary blindness of some in deciding to shoot the goose that lays the golden egg and then wondering why things are in the sh*tter is beyond the pale.

It's really tough to understand the logic... I guess that all you can really do is laugh

Not only shoot it, but then cheer on its suffering as it "STILL"
keeps laying those golden eggs. I don't get it the perversion
displayed with this, but it takes all kinds.

Don't think there is any rule that says one can't inject a little
reality, and still laugh.

 

[MHz]

I'm just trying to offer some balance and perspective here.

Worse off in that they need such a large amount of financial support from the other Provinces. The graph I was looking for would list all the Provinces rather than just the lotto winner. I don't mind helping as long as the money is doing more than going to sign shops and translator services.
Trust me when I say I appreciate the 'fine tuning' your perspective adds to may 'rants'.
Also trust me when I say there is no hidden agenda in posting numbers that are 'off by some margin'. It only indicates my lack of research on the subject rather than that 'number' is written in stone. That would apply to theoretical tide heights in NS to AB lopping off the tops of mountains and harnessing the energy released as gravity pulls it down to the floor of the valley far below. Might I suggest some hemp in the conveyor belts.

That being said I also want to add I haven't looked at the numbers so it could be that more is spent in propping up social structure so who cares how big it is. Sask if a long way from being the Province that is going to be hardest hit. If Quebec get less from the equalization who gets hit the worst, it is usually the ones that are poor already.
The Prairies might become known for their potatoes and other root crops rather than tall lanky crops such as wheat and canola

 

[captain morgan]

Not only shoot it, but then cheer on its suffering as it "STILL"
keeps laying those golden eggs. I don't get it the perversion
displayed with this, but it takes all kinds.

using the twisted logic we are talking of, there is at least one upside component to this recession and collapse of the oil price; the lack of available to the welfare provinces will make a few heads turn... The price of oil will rebound and chances are that AB and Sask will retain long memories when it comes to sourcing outside services from those provinces that decided to kick folks when they are down

 

[MHz]

It's probably nothing

Oil-price plunge could cost Ontario billions in equalization - Business - CBC News

No oil, Quebec? Fine. No equalization payments | GUNTER | Columnists | Opinion |

It's almost enough to cause tears that can be dried up using the reusable Hempnix, available nowhere at the moment. Back to your regular programing. A global recession is actually a pay increase for the residents of the Western Provinces.

using the twisted logic we are talking of, there is at least one upside component to this recession and collapse of the oil price; the lack of available to the welfare provinces will make a few heads turn... The price of oil will rebound and chances are that AB and Sask will retain long memories when it comes to sourcing outside services from those provinces that decided to kick folks when they are down

Reality says they are being distracted from looking at how much their own budget sucks. The west has further to fall before they hit bottom so it makes bigger news, what is not mentioned is that they will be the ones that recover the fastest, Toronto and Montreal will become the Kiev of North America.

 

[Ron in Regina]

It's the 'butterfly effect." A drought in Indian means less
demand for fertilizer for that year from Canada. La Nina
follows El Nino every time though, so this would be a
fantastic time to invest in fertilizer.

Saudi Arabia fearful on different fronts from Russians trading
in oil with China in non-US dollars, combined with a fear of
the USA becoming independent from oil imports for the
Middle East, results in a glut market that affects Canada as
an afterthought in the big picture.

An El Nino year means a mild winter with much less snow
fall out on the prairies (this was needed!) but the potential
for less moisture and thus a smaller agricultural harvest,
but maybe the ground water levels will have a chance to
get back to normal (-ish) and more farmland will be able
to be planted this year.

 

[MHz]

using the twisted logic we are talking of, there is at least one upside component to this recession and collapse of the oil price; the lack of available to the welfare provinces will make a few heads turn... The price of oil will rebound and chances are that AB and Sask will retain long memories when it comes to sourcing outside services from those provinces that decided to kick folks when they are down

How about when you earn a certain amount 'out west' you have to claim that as you Province of Residence as claiming Ontario or Quebec puts money into their coffers that isn't even on the books for the most part in that AB collects no Provincial Tax from many seasonal workers. This is starting to look like a win/win for the east as money sent 'back home' is spent 'back home' rather than in the community in which the work was performed. Surely it isn't that crooked and that blatant at the same time. What would that do to the 'transfer payment numbers' other than make the much higher.

 

[Ron in Regina]

...and chances are that AB and Sask will retain long memories when it comes to sourcing outside services from those provinces that decided to kick folks when they are down

In the spirit of Free Trade & National Unity, I doubt it. We are
Canadians first, even with the hurtles intentionally placed in
front of the success of the nation as a whole even by some
of those in the same nation. We know tough times are
coming, and the divisive arseholes against a pipeline to
help make Canada independent from oil imports are still
Canadians, though hypocritical and deluded.

How about when you earn a certain amount 'out west' you have to claim that as you Province of Residence as claiming Ontario or Quebec puts money into their coffers that isn't even on the books for the most part in that AB collects no Provincial Tax from many seasonal workers. This is starting to look like a win/win for the east as money sent 'back home' is spent 'back home' rather than in the community in which the work was performed. Surely it isn't that crooked and that blatant at the same time. What would that do to the 'transfer payment numbers' other than make the much higher.

With a barrel of oil trading at under $45, lots of bodies from Eastern
Canada are back home, and not exporting wage revenue to their
home provinces. You have a good question here. Ask it again
in about a year.

After decades upon decades of Eastern taxpayers shipping trainloads if cash to poor, starving Saskatchewan, that statement is truly shameful.

...Hmmmm.....Ok, going forward, I've a question for you. Has
'starving Saskatchewan' payed more into Equalization than
it has received? Will it? For the 8 Billion it has received, how
much has it paid out in just the last couple of years alone
without receiving anything back from this fund? The numbers
are out there to either support or crush your statement.

After decades upon decades of Eastern taxpayers shipping trainloads if cash to poor, starving Saskatchewan, that statement is truly shameful.

In the 59 years since the inception of the Equalization Program,
Saskatchewan Have received back 8 Billion (with a "B") dollars.
What percentage of that 8 Billion has it paid out just in the last
8 years alone without receiving anything back? I'd venture a guess
that it's in the neighbourhood of 40% of that total, but I could be
wrong, and look forward to being corrected.

After decades upon decades of Eastern taxpayers shipping trainloads if cash to poor, starving Saskatchewan, that statement is truly shameful.

With the Wheat Pool ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_pools_in_Canada )
back when Saskatchewan had a much less diversified economy,
for the Breadbasket of the nation, do you know how many flour
mills I've seen out here on the Prairies in the 46 years I've been
alive? That would be zero. Do you know why?

They're like baby pigeons. You know they have to be out there
somewhere, 'cuz there's no lack of pigeons, but where the
hell are they.

 

[petros]

An El Nino year means a mild winter with much less snow
fall out on the prairies (this was needed!) but the potential
for less moisture and thus a smaller agricultural harvest,
but maybe the ground water levels will have a chance to
get back to normal (-ish) and more farmland will be able
to be planted this year.

Winter wheat took a pounding.

I can't wait to get home for seeding.

 

[captain morgan]

How about when you earn a certain amount 'out west' you have to claim that as you Province of Residence as claiming Ontario or Quebec puts money into their coffers that isn't even on the books for the most part in that AB collects no Provincial Tax from many seasonal workers. This is starting to look like a win/win for the east as money sent 'back home' is spent 'back home' rather than in the community in which the work was performed. Surely it isn't that crooked and that blatant at the same time. What would that do to the 'transfer payment numbers' other than make the much higher.

Really good point

In the spirit of Free Trade & National Unity, I doubt it. We are Canadians first, even with the hurtles intentionally placed in front of the success of the nation as a whole even by some of those in the same nation. We know tough times are coming, and the divisive arseholes against a pipeline to help make Canada independent from oil imports are still Canadians, though hypocritical and deluded.

I can say with complete certainty that there are some folks that I know who shop for some of their services that specifically looks to Western Can and the US first as their personal response to the East/West politics.

They understand that their actions will have no noticeable impact on the politics, but their ideas are that if their former providers aren't willing to make any noise, they can respond where it counts the most.

 

[MHz]

A transient worker can use direct deposit to send his pay-check back a bank in his home Province while he is out west working and 'living in a work camp' is what I was getting at as far as most of the spending gets done 'back home'.

 

[Durry]

This Thread got quiet really fast. Can't quite hear the crickets yet...



Look at things in this light, & I know this is oversimplifying things:

What Alberta pays in, Quebec receives. They cancel each other
out in an ugly 'Equalization' balance. Then look at the remainder.



Hmmmm.....Ok, going forward, I've a question for you. Has
'starving Saskatchewan' payed more into Equalization than
it has received? Will it? For the 8 Billion it has received, how
much has it paid out in just the last couple of years alone
without receiving anything back from this fund? The numbers
are out there to either support or crush your statement.



This statement is truly shameful.

You seemed to have changed your tune Ron, I remember a few years ago you were pooh poohing me for complaining about the have-not provinces taking equalization money from AB. Maybe it's an age thing eh!!

 

[Ron in Regina]

You seemed to have changed your tune Ron, I remember a few years ago you were pooh poohing me for complaining about the have-not provinces taking equalization money from AB. Maybe it's an age thing eh!!

I've changed my opinion on this subject not one bit, but try to
take a 'middle of the road' approach without falling off
either side of the wagon. I can, when needed, argue both
sides in an Equalization debate...but Quebec is difficult to
justify.

 

[captain morgan]

It's impossible to justify Equalization for those provinces that rely on the program as a part of their GDP and budgetary process..... That is full-on dependency

 

[Ron in Regina]

It's impossible to justify Equalization for those provinces that rely on the program as a part of their GDP and budgetary process..... That is full-on dependency

Well, some jurisdictions just don't have the population base,
or the land mass, or the climate, or the natural resourses, or
some combination of the above factors, and others, to support
themselves in a comparable level with the rest of the nation with
respect to health care, education , etc....it's just the way it is, &
thus Equalization isn't just a temporary stop gap measure.

Others in the system though are more than capable, with large
populations and natural resourses, and population base, and
climate....all....and still (due to political retardation) are constant
net receivers of Equalization leaving the system less than equal.

One of the first reforms in correcting this inequality and abuse is
to remove the excemption to hydroelectric power generation being
a sourse of revenue and a natural resourse....which would dramaticly
alter the direction of the flow of $$$ with respect to Manitoba & Quebec,
and help restore the Equalization Program to something much more
equal, and closer to the spirit in which the system was origionally
created to acheive.

 

[Durry]

Nope, it should be abandoned altogether.

Anyone who is incompetent (province or business) can go to the free market and get it.

 

[captain morgan]

Well, some jurisdictions just don't have the population base,
or the land mass, or the climate, or the natural resourses, or
some combination of the above factors, and others, to support
themselves in a comparable level with the rest of the nation with
respect to health care, education , etc....it's just the way it is, &
thus Equalization isn't just a temporary stop gap measure.

That becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy... A jurisdiction (other than Northern Canada) that doesn't have the necessary economic activity or population to generate the revenues to even come close to supporting itself becomes a fully dependent place.

BC is filled with all kinds of ghost towns that were originally fueled by mining.... Gvt isn't supporting them anymore and the people relocated

Others in the system though are more than capable, with large
populations and natural resourses, and population base, and
climate....all....and still (due to political retardation) are constant
net receivers of Equalization leaving the system less than equal.

These are the groups that I am really focusing on.

One of the first reforms in correcting this inequality and abuse is
to remove the excemption to hydroelectric power generation being
a sourse of revenue and a natural resourse....which would dramaticly
alter the direction of the flow of $$$ with respect to Manitoba & Quebec,
and help restore the Equalization Program to something much more
equal, and closer to the spirit in which the system was origionally
created to acheive.

Best reform is to eliminate equalization altogether and set up a program that loans money to a province in a manner that makes them fully responsible for ensuring that the expenditures are in the form of best practices

 

[Ron in Regina]

Anyway Folks, I apologize for hijacking this thread away from
bashing Saskatchewan specifically and the West in general,
and bringing Equalization into the conversation, but I assumed
that the Thread was going to drift into that direction eventually,
and just bulled it in that direction proactively.

 

[captain morgan]

Anyway Folks, I apologize for hijacking this thread away from
bashing Saskatchewan specifically and the West in general,
and bringing Equalization into the conversation, but I assumed
that the Thread was going to drift into that direction eventually,
and just bulled it in that direction proactively.

What you brought up Ron goes to the heart of this conversation.

You need not offer an apology to anyone

 

[Curious Cdn]

Yep....yep....this is now:

...And this is the total from the beginning of the program:

How, Uhmmm....How do you explain this is light of your statement?

Maybe you should be looking to the East, and not the West,
in order for your statement to be credible, and not look like
a fool. Look at your closest neighbour to your East.

Now add together the three most Western Provinces in the
country and compare that total to other individual jurisdictions.
Interesting, Eh?








And yet, Saskatchewan will pay out to Equilization 1/2 a Billion
this next go round, and receive nothing back out of it, and that
number is larger than it's predicted deficit.

Dig out of 1900 to 2007

 

[Ron in Regina]

Best reform is to eliminate equalization altogether and set up a program that loans money to a province in a manner that makes them fully responsible for ensuring that the expenditures are in the form of best practices

You know, I hear you, but now factor in P.E.I. to your idea.
It has climate going for it, but not Population, or land mass,
or bountiful natural resources, and the Cod Moratorium in
place, etc....though it does have tourism.

How would a jurisdiction like P.E.I. deal with your program?

I'm not picking on P.E.I. but am using it as an example of
what Equalization was partially created to protect, to help
provide comparable levels of service with the rest of Canada.

Dig out of 1900 to 2007

Excuse me? I'm not clear as to what you are trying to state.