Christian Atheism...it's a thing.

[Nick Danger]

If I understand your testimony, ND, "God" cannot or does not want to be known objectively, but only experienced subjectively as "my god".

That's the gist of it, but the use of "not want" still implies a level of consciousness on "God's" part which again is an attempt to apply some human characteristics to something we really know nothing about. I'm comfortable with "cannot be known objectively" as it keeps any assumptions as to the nature of God within the mystery that it is. We can see "God's work" around us every day, but just what "God" is remains a mystery.

But to each his/her own. I'm not one to stomp on other people's personal beliefs, especially spiritual beliefs, because as I said before, when dealing with the unknowable there really are no right or wrong answers. I do tend to take issue with people who try and force their beliefs on others, the "I'm right and you're wrong". This is where many organized religions are falling short, claiming to have answers rather than encouraging individuals to search for themselves.

 

[Motar]

That's the gist of it, but the use of "not want" still implies a level of consciousness on "God's" part which again is an attempt to apply some human characteristics to something we really know nothing about. I'm comfortable with "cannot be known objectively" as it keeps any assumptions as to the nature of God within the mystery that it is. We can see "God's work" around us every day, but just what "God" is remains a mystery.

But to each his/her own. I'm not one to stomp on other people's personal beliefs, especially spiritual beliefs, because as I said before, when dealing with the unknowable there really are no right or wrong answers. I do tend to take issue with people who try and force their beliefs on others, the "I'm right and you're wrong". This is where many organized religions are falling short, claiming to have answers rather than encouraging individuals to search for themselves.

When we appreciate order in God's work around us, is it not logical to conclude that God is orderly? Have you experienced God as chaotic?

 

[eh1eh]

Christian atheism is a theological position in which the belief in the transcendent or interventionist God is rejected or absent in favor of finding God totally in the world (Thomas J. J. Altizer) or following Jesus in a Godless world (William Hamilton). Hamilton's Christian atheism is similar to Jesuism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

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Thoughts?

Seems like a slow progression towards total atheism to me, from a positive perspective.

Sounds like it is a transition device for those people fearful, for reasons that may be harking back to their school day when they were forced by cultural pressure to believe in all that bible stuff but they knew from the start that it sounded all bullsh1tty and stuff but they just kept their logic and reason thoughts to themselves, of alienation.

 

[Nick Danger]

When we appreciate order in God's work around us, is it not logical to conclude that God is orderly? Have you experienced God as chaotic?

When I attribute what I see around me to "God", I am using that word as recognition to the fact that I really don't know squat about the forces behind what I see. With that in mind any assumptions I might have about just what "God" is hold no water. I could guess and theorize all day long about what the true nature of God is, and read book after book by people who have come up with guesses and theories of their own, but after all is said and done, it's all just guesses and theories. It might be presumptuous of me to say so, but I think all any of us have, or can have at this point in time, are guesses and theories. In essence, "God" is a word I use to skip over the stuff I don't know.

 

[Ludlow]

When I attribute what I see around me to "God", I am using that word as recognition to the fact that I really don't know squat about the forces behind what I see. With that in mind any assumptions I might have about just what "God" is hold no water. I could guess and theorize all day long about what the true nature of God is, and read book after book by people who have come up with guesses and theories of their own, but after all is said and done, it's all just guesses and theories. It might be presumptuous of me to say so, but I think all any of us have, or can have at this point in time, are guesses and theories. In essence, "God" is a word I use to skip over the stuff I don't know.

And who would want to know and lose the sense of the wonder of it all.

 

[Nick Danger]

And who would want to know and lose the sense of the wonder of it all.

I think just about anyone would want to know, I just don't think that knowledge is on the menu right now.

 

[Motar]

If I understand your testimony, ND, "God" cannot or does not want to be known objectively, but only experienced subjectively as "my god".

In my experience and by "God's" design, "God" can be known objectively and experienced subjectively, Detective : )

 

[Nick Danger]

There was a line in a movie a few years back that has stuck in my mind since. In the sci-fi movie "Serenity", while Shepherd Book lays dying in Mal's arms, he says "I don't care what you believe in, just believe." I've always taken this to say that there are things worth thinking about in life, and that actually finding an answer is secondary to the exercise of searching and questioning.

 

[Ludlow]

There was a line in a movie a few years back that has stuck in my mind since. In the sci-fi movie "Serenity", while Shepherd Book lays dying in Mal's arms, he says "I don't care what you believe in, just believe." I've always taken this to say that there are things worth thinking about in life, and that actually finding an answer is secondary to the exercise of searching and questioning.

I guess it comes down to , what will be more fulfilling ? What I find at the end of the journey, or the journey itself ?

 

[Nick Danger]

I guess it comes down to , what will be more fulfilling ? What I find at the end of the journey, or the journey itself ?

I think I was referring more to the choice between asking the "mystical" questions or not. In my opinion some questions cannot be answered, other than to accept that they are unanswerable, like the "God" question, but it did take some consideration to arrive at that point. I see too many willing to defer that decision to others without giving it much thought on their own. Granted they are certainly entitled to make that sort of decision, but it can result in placing trust in people where such trust is not deserved.

 

[Ludlow]

I think I was referring more to the choice between asking the "mystical" questions or not. In my opinion some questions cannot be answered, other than to accept that they are unanswerable, like the "God" question, but it did take some consideration to arrive at that point. I see too many willing to defer that decision to others without giving it much thought on their own. Granted they are certainly entitled to make that sort of decision, but it can result in placing trust in people where such trust is not deserved.

whatever

 

[darkbeaver]

That's the thing. Why appeal to anyone or thing. Why try and prove anything or make any claims?

Why ask a stupid question like that on a discussion forum? We're all here to converse and share ideas and thoughts. Why do you bother?

 

[Ludlow]

Why ask a stupid question like that on a discussion forum? We're all here to converse and share ideas and thoughts. Why do you bother?

There's one way you can remedy that Mr. know it all. The ignore feature works well.

You don't share your thoughts anyway. You post a bunch of cryptic nonsensical bullshyt that no one can understand. you call that sharing? Naw you're like a drunken idiot in a bar spouting crap to hear your head rattle.

 

[darkbeaver]

There's one way you can remedy that Mr. know it all. The ignore feature works well.

You don't share your thoughts anyway. You post a bunch of cryptic nonsensical bullshyt that no one can understand. you call that sharing? Naw you're like a drunken idiot in a bar spouting crap to hear your head rattle.

you're too stupid to take your own advice, use the button or get stuffed, all the same to me Ludblow

 

[Twila]

There was a line in a movie a few years back that has stuck in my mind since. In the sci-fi movie "Serenity", while Shepherd Book lays dying in Mal's arms, he says "I don't care what you believe in, just believe." I've always taken this to say that there are things worth thinking about in life, and that actually finding an answer is secondary to the exercise of searching and questioning.

Loved Firefly and Joss Whedon's work in near its entirety so far.

Firefly had some very interesting dialogue in it's conversations between characters and about some aspects of the human condition.

 

[Ludlow]

you're too stupid to take your own advice, use the button or get stuffed, all the same to me Ludblow

"no,,,,you are",,,ma salami leakum. .

 

[Motar]

I guess it comes down to , what will be more fulfilling ? What I find at the end of the journey, or the journey itself ?

Both. By design, the journey and the destination are worthwhile.

 

[Ludlow]

Both. By design, the journey and the destination are worthwhile.

Thank you for a simple statement Motar. All of the attempts by everyone to appear mystic, profound and esoteric get quite old. Thanks.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

There was a line in a movie a few years back that has stuck in my mind since. In the sci-fi movie "Serenity", while Shepherd Book lays dying in Mal's arms, he says "I don't care what you believe in, just believe." I've always taken this to say that there are things worth thinking about in life, and that actually finding an answer is secondary to the exercise of searching and questioning.

Could be, though I'm not sure I'd go to Joss Whedon for advice on life. Much less Ron Glass.

 

[Ludlow]

Could be, though I'm not sure I'd go to Joss Whedon for advice on life. Much less Ron Glass.

bartenders usually have the best advise.