The British apologize for celebrating 1814 White House burning anniversary @ Embassy.

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
Yep. We sure were.

Yes, you really were.

The reasons for the war were: American imperialism, arrogance and inability to understand the loyalists.

The war began because of American expansionism: the "impressment" issue was a red herring (even today, the Americans believe the lie that the Royal Navy impressed Americans into service).

Because the Americans thought that Canada would join the US in an anti-British rebellion, and that Britain was in no position to prevent the US invasion of Canada because of the war with Napoleon.

The background was that Britain was in a life or death struggle with Napoleon, and that the War Hawks in the US could not understand why the Northern British American colonies did not join in the American Revolution. They just needed to find an excuse to annex Canada.

Luckily for them the US Navy provided them with one. The US Navy granted citizenship to any sailor who would join them. Many British sailors jumped ship, more for the better pay and lower chance of getting involved in military action, than for the chance of a new passport. The Royal Navy sought to prevent this breach of international law by stopping American ships and seizing any deserters they could find.

The US was incensed! "How dare the Royal Navy impress OUR sailors" they cried. As I said, even today Yanks still believe that the British impressed American sailors into the RN, even though the British were merely retrieving British sailors who had deserted to the US Navy.

The other excuse was provided by the war in Europe . The US was prevented from trading with Napoleonic France - normal behaviour in war-time, the US was attempting to trade arms and ammunition with the French.

The British were also imposing a ban on the slave trade - turning ships back to African ports, and releasing their human cargoes. "How dare the British interfere with free trade" the Americans shouted!

So off to war they went, burning York - the Canadian capital city, hoping that the Canadians would join them in fighting the British. Oh boy, were they mistaken. The Canadians had no desire to join the Americans, and fought them back, kicking them out of Canada, pushing them back to Washington, where the British burnt the White House. They marched on, towards the Gulf of Mexico. There was one moment of hope for the Americans - they won the battle of New Orleans (although that was two weeks after the peace treaty had been signed). However, just a few days later, the victory was soured, the Battle of Mobile was a rout. The Americans were comprehensively defeated.

In Britain the war was a sideshow, an irritation. The British, and Canadians, simply wanted the Americans to go back to their borders, and stop acting like children. Just in case they did try to continue the fight, over 10,000 battle hardened soldiers were about to embark for the New World - the Americans realised that if they landed, there was a real chance that the USA would cease to exist - the British might simply re-absorb it back into the empire. They called for peace - the British were magnanimous, they withdrew their troops from American soil: that was all they wanted.

The Americans have lied to themselves ever since that this humiliating defeat, one that nearly cost them the country, was either a draw or a victory.

And our greatest historic mistake was making up with you. We should have pursued the Monroe Doctrine with deadly force and let your decayed aristocracies play their war games.

The Monroe doctrine was hypocritical at best - saying to Europe (not just Britain) that they shouldn't expand their empirical interests into South America so that the USA could create an empire by proxy in South America.

Of course,the tragic thing is that this sort of nonsense actually passes for history in America. You lot don't get taught what actually happened. You just get taught romantical, pro- American rubbish.

"Very little is known about the War of 1812, because the Americans lost it."
Eric Nicol, Canadian writer
 
Last edited:

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,750
9,706
113
Washington DC
“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”

--Thomas Paine

BRITANNUS (shocked).
Caesar: this is not proper.

THEODOTUS (outraged).
How!

CAESAR (recovering his self-possession).
Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

--G.B. Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
“To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”

--Thomas Paine

BRITANNUS (shocked).
Caesar: this is not proper.

THEODOTUS (outraged).
How!

CAESAR (recovering his self-possession).
Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

--G.B. Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra


 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
I wonder how the Monarchy would feel about Germany celebrating the onset of the bombing of Britain?

I don't think the royals would be too pleased if the Krauts had the audacity to celebrate the Blitz. The Germans have NOTHING to celebrate when it comes to WWII or WWI.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,303
2,917
113
Toronto, ON
I don't think the royals would be too pleased if the Krauts had the audacity to celebrate the Blitz. The Germans have NOTHING to celebrate when it comes to WWII or WWI.

Somehow I had the picture of Bazil Fawlty in the episode of "Fawlty Towers" "The Germans" and his monologue in the dining room come through my head. Then it occurred to me. You are Bazil Fawlty ... without the humour.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
I don't think the royals would be too pleased if the Krauts had the audacity to celebrate the Blitz. The Germans have NOTHING to celebrate when it comes to WWII or WWI.

The Royals are Krauts.

I hope you enjoyed LOSING that war.

We kicked the Brits butts.



Too little too late for you. We'd already won the war by then.

But what a bonus azz kicking New Orleans was!
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
The Royals are Krauts.

The Queen was born to a Scottish mother in Mayfair.

Prince Philip the Greek was born into the Greek and Danish royal families and was born in Corfu, the son of Prince Andrew of Greece and Denmark and Princess Alice of Battenberg, the great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria.

Princess Anne, Prince Charles, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward are English-Greek-Scots born in Clarence House, Buckingham Palace, Buckingham Palace and Buckingham Palace respectively.

Princes William and Harry were born to an English mother and English-Greek-Scottish father in St Mary's Hospital, London.

Prince George was born to an English mother and a mainly English father in St Mary's Hospital London.

That's the "German" royal family for you.


We kicked the Brits butts.





But what a bonus azz kicking New Orleans was!

Two weeks after the peace treaty had been signed and Britain had already won the war.

The fact that two Yanks have mentioned the "azz kicking in New Orleans" to me in the same thread on the same day is further proof that Yanks are taught revisionist "history" in school and genuinely believe eveything they have been told.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
The Queen was born to a Scottish mother in Mayfair.

The Brits are Ruled by the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.


Two weeks after the peace treaty had been signed and Britain had already won the war.

The fact that two Yanks have mentioned the "azz kicking in New Orleans" to me in the same thread on the same day is further proof that Yanks are taught revisionist "history" in school and genuinely believe eveything they have been told.

Peace treaty and the Birts won. LOL. It meant we'd stop kicking your azz and sinking your ships.

And boy... New Orleans was probably the most thorough azz kick the Brits received EVER. The pride of the Brit Army and famed units of the Napoleonic Wars beat down in the swamps of New Orleans by Kentucky back woodsmen and US Marines!
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I don't think the royals would be too pleased if the Krauts had the audacity to celebrate the Blitz. The Germans have NOTHING to celebrate when it comes to WWII or WWI.


Like it or not, the Germans conquered all of Europe and had the UK quaking in terror... Germany's blitz campaign shook the very foundations of your nation

One small nation that was able to control the Empire that took Britain hundreds of years to build, they did in a matter of a few years
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
The Brits are Ruled by the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.

To say that Prince Charles, who has a Greek father and a mother who is half-Scottish, is "German" is just barmy.

Obama is Kenyan, by the way.


Peace treaty and the Birts won. LOL. It meant we'd stop kicking your azz and sinking your ships.

And boy... New Orleans was probably the most thorough azz kick the Brits received EVER. The pride of the Brit Army and famed units of the Napoleonic Wars beat down in the swamps of New Orleans by Kentucky back woodsmen and US Marines!

Too little too late, boyo. You won the battle but we'd already won the war.

New Orleans was also a mere minor skirmish compared to other contemporary battles such as Waterloo, and the Yanks then and still today exaggerate its meaning and its significance.

Like it or not, the Germans conquered all of Europe

No, they didn't.

and had the UK quaking in terror

And we beat them.
 
Last edited:

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Like it or not, the Germans conquered all of Europe and had the UK quaking in terror... Germany's blitz campaign shook the very foundations of your nation

One small nation that was able to control the Empire that took Britain hundreds of years to build, they did in a matter of a few years

The interesting part is the English asked the Germans to come to England to rule over them.

WTF? Seriously.

Like it or not, the Germans conquered all of Europe and had the UK quaking in terror... Germany's blitz campaign shook the very foundations of your nation

And they had to be saved by the rest of the Anglo-Allies once again.

Too little too late, boyo. You won the battle but we'd already won the war.

New Orleans was also a mere minor skirmish compared to other contemporary battles such as Waterloo, and the Yanks then and still today exaggerate its meaning and its significance.

More Brit revisionism to cover up another embarrassing defeat.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
Germany's blitz campaign shook the very foundations of your nation

Not as much as Britain's bombing campaign of Germany shook the very foundations of that nation. About as many people were killed in the RAF's bombing of Hamburg alone than were killed throughout the whole of Great Britain in the whole of the Blitz.

The interesting part is the English asked the Germans to come to England to rule over them.

That's because when we decided to take all the Catholic scum out of the Line of Succession, Sophia, Electress of Hanover, was the nearest Protestant in the Line of Succession. She, however, died before she could become Queen, so her son, Georg, became George I.

And they had to be saved by the rest of the Anglo-Allies once again.

The Yanks and Canadians, as I've already said, had it much easier than Britain and her people in WWII. I'd like to have seen how they would have handled having Nazi Germany just 570 miles away.

More Brit revisionism to cover up another embarrassing defeat.

New Orleans was a minor skirmish compared to other, TRUE battles of the day, such as Waterloo.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
The Yanks and Canadians, as I've already said, had it much easier than Britain and her people in WWII. I'd like to have seen how they would have handled having Nazi Germany just 570 miles away.

Better than you did!



New Orleans was a minor skirmish compared to other, TRUE battles of the day, such as Waterloo.

Were the Brits even at Waterloo? The Prussians defeated Napoleon at Waterloo while the Brits sat on their butts... again.

"Give me night... or give me Blucher."- Wellington at Waterloo.

Typical of the Brits... waiting for yet another allied army to come to their rescue.

Geez what a pattern.
 

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
5,732
0
36
Santa Cruz, California
The War of 1812 and the Korean War were similar in that each conflict was inconclusive. There were many causes contributing to the hostilities called the War of 1812. Both Britain and America had plans to hamstring the other in North America. America was an expansionist power while Britain was a fearful status quo power. The Americans were not primarily concerned with conquering Canada. Rather, America's objective was to ensure its ability to continue to expand westward. The conquest of British North America would have been icing on the cake. The British were interested in preventing the rise of a new great power in the western hemisphere. They sought to block American expansion at the Mississippi River.

America failed to achieve its secondary objective of conquering Canada. Britain failed in its primary objective of preventing the rise of a new great power in the western hemisphere. However, these objectives were integrally tied to the Napoleonic Wars. Britain feared invasion, and used its trade embargo to weaken the French. However, Britain's trade embargo was unlawful when imposed on a neutral power such as the United States. Britain did commit acts of war against America in enforcing the embargo. Britain did deny America the freedom of the high seas.

With the exceptions of the defense of Ft. McHenry and the Battle of New Orleans, American performance on land was lackluster. However, American conduct of the naval war was inspiring. I recommend Theodore Roosevelt's history on this subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Naval-War-1812-Modern-Library/dp/0375754199

Roosevelt notes that if America had lost the Battle of New Orleans it is unlikely Britain would have observed the strict terms of the Treaty of Ghent. Most scholars agree.

Finally, I would like to observe that in the great sweep of history things don't always turn out as planned or hoped. What importance was North America to Britain when the most popular boy's name in that country today is Mohammed? The British are losing their special identity, and becoming the Yemen of the North Atlantic. Similarly, what importance was Manifest Destiny to America when the US is in the process of becoming a latin american country?
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
The odd objects looted from Washington DC in 1814


Magazine Monitor
A collection of cultural artefacts
BBC News
29 August 2014


The Burning of Washington in 1814 by British troops, as depicted by Tom Freeman

It's been 200 years since the British burned Washington, but objects looted in 1814 will probably never be returned, writes Tammy Thueringer.

Other than an off-colour tweet and subsequent apology by the British Embassy, the bicentennial of the punitive mission of 1814 that left the US capital in flames has received little attention this week.

The burning was one of the final events of the often-forgotten War of 1812, a conflict which saw the US try and fail to grab bits of Canada and Britain try and fail to blockade the US. British troops torched the White House, Treasury and parts of the Capitol Building in a punitive mission near the end of the war. They also looted what they could, effectively collecting "souvenirs".

After the attack, the Royal Navy sailed to Bermuda with their spoils, included four paintings of King George III and Queen Charlotte, a grandfather clock and President James Madison's personal government receipt book.

Today, the artworks hang in two Bermuda government buildings and the clock is in private hands.



The destruction of Washington was in retaliation for an earlier US attack on the Parliament of Lower Canada at York (now Toronto). The US also looted, taking a royal standard, the first Mace of Ontario, a golden staff used by Upper Canada's Parliament, and a lion statuette, carved out of wood and painted gold.

Today, the standard and lion are just two of the hundreds of "trophies of war" on display at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.


The wooden lion taken by the US in April 1813 from the Legislature of Upper Canada in York (now Toronto)

The "trophies" in Bermuda and Maryland will probably stay there, at least in part because of the American Civil War-era "Lieber Code".

The US declared that items captured from an enemy in time of war can be kept. The laws only applied to American forces, but other states adopted similar regulations.

Since then, several international laws prohibiting wartime looting have been created, but the original code also remains in effect.


James Madison, president at the time, and the government receipt book looted in 1814

Despite that original code, some of the looted items have made it home.

In 1934, President Franklin Roosevelt ordered the return of the mace and Madison's receipt book was returned to the Library of Congress in 1940.


Scorch marks of the fire are still visible today on the White House as two areas have been left unpainted


But as for the paintings of the British royals, the Americans seem unlikely to press for their return.

BBC News - The odd objects looted from Washington DC in 1814

However, Britain's trade embargo was unlawful when imposed on a neutral power such as the United States.

That's debateable.

Also, the French imposed the same embargo on the Yanks. The Yanks just blamed it all on the British, though. Even to this day they still largely ignore the embargos the French placed on them and solely concentrate on the British embargos, which were necessary in our time of war.


Britain did commit acts of war against America in enforcing the embargo. Britain did deny America the freedom of the high seas.
?

And America committed acts of war against Britain by trying to invade British colonies.

America was the aggressor in the war of 1812. Now stop the excuses.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,956
1,910
113
We don't need to make excuses to client states.


Just stop it. You were the aggressors in the War of 1812 - and you lost.

By the way, your hero, Tecumseh, was allied to the British and opposed the United States as he didn't want those bloody Yanks encroaching on his tribe's patch.
 
Last edited: