Kansas Tax Cut Hasn't Created “tens of thousands of jobs.”
- Thread starter tay
- Start date
I had a small business (internet). Revenue was minor and made no sense to incorporate. Then I had someone offer to buy the site at a value I couldn't refuse. It cost me an arm and a leg in capital gains. What really ticked me off was I built it with an incredible amount of my own time which I couldn't pay myself for. Then when the sale happened I just had to take my lumps on a high tax rate and hand over the cash to the government (for basically nothing). Would've been nice (and fairer) if there was some form of partial exemption or deferral. As I look back there was nothing different I would've done. Only thing would've been to claim some capital appreciation from year to year over a decade but that required more hindsight than was really reasonable. I had no idea the value would amount to anything.
UPDATE
The graveyard is where the economy of Kansas has been buried since 2012, when Brownback and his Republican state legislature enacted a slew of deep tax cuts in a tea party-esque quest for economic "freedom."
"Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy," he promised then. Brownback's tax consultant, the supply-side guru Art Laffer, promised Kansans that the cuts would pay for themselves in supercharged economic growth.
Instead, job growth in Kansas trails the nation. The state's rainy-day fund is dwindling to zero. Month after month, revenue comes in even lower than fiscal officials' most dire expectations.
In the rest of the country, school budgets are finally beginning to recover from the toll of the last recession; in Kansas, they're still falling. Healthcare, assistance for the poor, courts, and other state services are being eviscerated.
Who's benefiting? The rich, including those proud offspring of Wichita, Kan.: the Koch brothers.
Despite all this, Brownback resorted to an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago to declare that "the early results are impressive." Among other statistics he cited, "In the past year, a record number of small businesses — more than 15,000 — were formed."
Yes, but as shown by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a Washington economic think tank, 16,000 disappeared. And many of those businesses that Brownback crowed about were surely created to take advantage of one of the tax-cut quirks Brownback enacted. This is the elimination of all taxes on partnerships, sole proprietorships, and LLCs that pass through their tax liabilities to their owners. That allows everyone from freelancers and petty contractors to huge partnerships to avoid any state income tax at all, as long as they're organized as a certain type of "small business."
Brownback's policy, and his claims about its outcome, define the term "ideological" -- the imposition of preconceived notions on a contradictory reality.
Brownback continues to promise his citizens that growth is just around the corner. But there's no evidence that the kinds of cuts he promoted have anything to do with genuine economic growth. Indeed, it's likely that preserving the quality of crucial state services is more important. That's a policy pursued in California under Gov. Jerry Brown, who successfully pushed to raise taxes after the recession; the state's job growth since then has left Kansas and the country as a whole in the dust.
"States considering deep tax cuts in hopes of sparking a surge of economic growth should look carefully at Kansas," the CBPP suggested in March.
more
How Tea Party tax cuts are turning Kansas into a smoking ruin - Los Angeles Times
The graveyard is where the economy of Kansas has been buried since 2012, when Brownback and his Republican state legislature enacted a slew of deep tax cuts in a tea party-esque quest for economic "freedom."
"Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy," he promised then. Brownback's tax consultant, the supply-side guru Art Laffer, promised Kansans that the cuts would pay for themselves in supercharged economic growth.
Instead, job growth in Kansas trails the nation. The state's rainy-day fund is dwindling to zero. Month after month, revenue comes in even lower than fiscal officials' most dire expectations.
In the rest of the country, school budgets are finally beginning to recover from the toll of the last recession; in Kansas, they're still falling. Healthcare, assistance for the poor, courts, and other state services are being eviscerated.
Who's benefiting? The rich, including those proud offspring of Wichita, Kan.: the Koch brothers.
Despite all this, Brownback resorted to an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago to declare that "the early results are impressive." Among other statistics he cited, "In the past year, a record number of small businesses — more than 15,000 — were formed."
Yes, but as shown by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a Washington economic think tank, 16,000 disappeared. And many of those businesses that Brownback crowed about were surely created to take advantage of one of the tax-cut quirks Brownback enacted. This is the elimination of all taxes on partnerships, sole proprietorships, and LLCs that pass through their tax liabilities to their owners. That allows everyone from freelancers and petty contractors to huge partnerships to avoid any state income tax at all, as long as they're organized as a certain type of "small business."
Brownback's policy, and his claims about its outcome, define the term "ideological" -- the imposition of preconceived notions on a contradictory reality.
Brownback continues to promise his citizens that growth is just around the corner. But there's no evidence that the kinds of cuts he promoted have anything to do with genuine economic growth. Indeed, it's likely that preserving the quality of crucial state services is more important. That's a policy pursued in California under Gov. Jerry Brown, who successfully pushed to raise taxes after the recession; the state's job growth since then has left Kansas and the country as a whole in the dust.
"States considering deep tax cuts in hopes of sparking a surge of economic growth should look carefully at Kansas," the CBPP suggested in March.
more
How Tea Party tax cuts are turning Kansas into a smoking ruin - Los Angeles Times
Tax cuts allow people to keep more of their money and spend it on Chinese goods.
Creates jobs in China that's why government 'has trouble tracking' these jobs.
Creates jobs in China that's why government 'has trouble tracking' these jobs.
Perhaps senile Wally should read the link's actual message which is that the state's policy has caused this: Instead, job growth in Kansas trails the nation.
104 Kansas Republicans back Democratic candidate after Brownback's vindictive politics and tax cuts destroyed the state's finances
On Tuesday, a group of 104 Kansas Republicans announced that they would endorse Democrat Paul Davis for governor, rather than incumbent Republican Sam Brownback.
The unusual mass endorsement comes after years of acrimony between Brownback and his state's moderate Republican faction, which resisted the governor's enormous tax cuts. In early 2012, Brownback moved against several moderate state senators,supporting primary challenges against them. Outside money from groups like Americans for Prosperity poured in.
It's only the latest bad news for Brownback, who has trailed Davis in several recent polls. Since Kansas passed Brownback's massive tax cut, revenues have plummeted, and the state's bond rating has been downgraded.
Why 104 Kansas Republicans just endorsed a Democrat for governor - Vox
Kansas was supposed to be the GOP’s tax-cut paradise. Now it can barely pay its bills
Kansas was supposed to be the GOP’s tax-cut paradise. Now it can barely pay its bills. - Vox
On Tuesday, a group of 104 Kansas Republicans announced that they would endorse Democrat Paul Davis for governor, rather than incumbent Republican Sam Brownback.
The unusual mass endorsement comes after years of acrimony between Brownback and his state's moderate Republican faction, which resisted the governor's enormous tax cuts. In early 2012, Brownback moved against several moderate state senators,supporting primary challenges against them. Outside money from groups like Americans for Prosperity poured in.
It's only the latest bad news for Brownback, who has trailed Davis in several recent polls. Since Kansas passed Brownback's massive tax cut, revenues have plummeted, and the state's bond rating has been downgraded.
Why 104 Kansas Republicans just endorsed a Democrat for governor - Vox
Kansas was supposed to be the GOP’s tax-cut paradise. Now it can barely pay its bills
Kansas was supposed to be the GOP’s tax-cut paradise. Now it can barely pay its bills. - Vox
Wally will baffle you with his mentally astute RED !
Don't confuse him with facts.
I'm still laughing at the Ronnie Raygun trickle down thing.
Trickle down economics promotes giving tax breaks to the rich in the hopes that it will also ultimately help the working class.
The problem is, the rich are not creating more jobs... they are just investing it into luxury items and themselves..
When is somebody just going to take all the gravy tax breaks away from the rich, corporations or politically connected and just institute a flat tax and treat everyone equally..
John Stossel - The Flat Tax - YouTube
The problem is, the rich are not creating more jobs... they are just investing it into luxury items and themselves..
When is somebody just going to take all the gravy tax breaks away from the rich, corporations or politically connected and just institute a flat tax and treat everyone equally..
John Stossel - The Flat Tax - YouTube
Trickle down economics promotes lowering taxes to all, including corporations and the rich... This puts more money in everyone's pockets that has a far better chance of making it back into the local economy and promoting faster growth than if the taxes are increased... Gvt makes a lot of money from things like sales tax based on the notion that you see more transactions... The logic being, take a smaller cut, but expect far more transactions that will deliver higher overall revenues then if you have a higher rate with fewer transactions
Add to this that corp tax rates are competitive and there is a stronger chance that business' will remain in this jurisdiction in addition to attracting more companies to relocate there with the jobs that follow.
Um. . . no, it doesn't. It promotes maximising the earnings of the top, so that that money will "trickle down." If it promotes lower taxes to all, it wouldn't be "trickling down."
I'm all in favor of that. I'd like to see a corporate tax rate of 10%.
On revenues.
I suppose that we can revisit this issue in the next while once we see the results of increasing taxes as a solution like in France.
It's worked very in the resource sector in Western Canada
Trickle down only serves to enrich the wealthy so that they can shelter their income and resources in overseas tax free accounts. In the 30+ years of Reaganomics it has never worked to benefit society as the "theory" has always suggested.
Or in California. Or do we only use examples that agree with your predisposition?
Excellent. Let's apply it to all corporations, partnerships, and other legal persons.
I'll check the forum rules here at CC, but I'm pretty sure that there is no rule that you can't offer an example to prove your point.
Lemme check and get back to ya, m'kay? Sometimes Andem can be extremely persnickety
Count me on board
Heritage Foundation economist admits he used false numbers defending Brownback
The tax-cutting efforts of the embattled Brownback were praised in a recent opinion column by Stephen Moore, chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, a well-known conservative think tank in Washington, D.C.
However, my research shows Moore used outdated and inaccurate job growth information at a key point in his article in early July. It appeared in slightly different versions in The Star, The Wichita Eagle and on websites such as the Heritage Foundation’s.
The wrong data undermined one of Moore’s arguments — that low-tax states have shown tremendous job gains and that employment often doesn’t grow as strongly in high-tax states.
Moore is a supporter of the low-tax mantra of Arthur Laffer, an economist who led Brownback and Kansas into the tax-cut wasteland and the subsequent decimation of state revenues in 2014.
In part of his article, Moore pointedly criticized a column written by Paul Krugman of The New York Times, who had lambasted the Kansas tax cut strategy and wondered “how did the charlatans and cranks end up dictating policy in Kansas...?”
Moore responded that states following “Krugman’s (and President Obama’s) economic strategy to a tee are getting clobbered by tax-cutting states.”
Revved up, Moore then added:
“No-income-tax Texas gained 1 million jobs over the last five years; California, with its 13 percent tax rate, managed to lose jobs. Oops. Florida gained hundreds of thousands of jobs while New York lost jobs. Oops.”
I reread Moore’s column a few days ago, after I had finished research for an editorial on the anemic job growth rate in Kansas under Brownback’s time in office.
Here are the four problems I subsequently found in that single paragraph written by Moore, which led to a corrected version of his column being posted on The Star’s website. Moore approved the correction in an email exchange with The Star.
No. 1: When Moore wrote about job creation “over the last five years,” he told The Star that he had measured from December 2007 to December 2012, using federal Bureau of Labor Statistics information.
That was an odd and ultimately misleading decision for readers. The bureau’s data is updated monthly, so “the last five years” easily could and should have been from mid-2009 to mid-2014. That would have provided more up-to-date figures, not 18-month-old data.
No. 2: Texas did not gain 1 million jobs in that 2007-2012 period. The correct figure was a gain of 497,400 jobs.
No. 3: Florida did not add hundreds of thousands of jobs in that span. It lost 461,500 jobs.
No. 4: New York, which has one of the highest income tax rates, did not lose jobs during that time. It gained 75,900 jobs.
As someone who has pored over the Bureau of Labor Statistics sheets for many months, I know figures can be skewed and cherry-picked by people on both sides of this tax-cut debate.
California since December 2012 — when Moore stopped measuring employment growth — has added 541,000 jobs, which is more than Texas’ 523,400. So, high taxes are good?
The problems with Moore’s opinion article damaged his credibility on the jobs issue.
They also didn’t help bolster Brownback’s case that the tax cuts are going to work out just fine for the state’s residents in the future.
more Heritage Foundation economist defends Sam Brownback, attacks Paul Krugman, but then ... oops | The Kansas City Star
The tax-cutting efforts of the embattled Brownback were praised in a recent opinion column by Stephen Moore, chief economist at the Heritage Foundation, a well-known conservative think tank in Washington, D.C.
However, my research shows Moore used outdated and inaccurate job growth information at a key point in his article in early July. It appeared in slightly different versions in The Star, The Wichita Eagle and on websites such as the Heritage Foundation’s.
The wrong data undermined one of Moore’s arguments — that low-tax states have shown tremendous job gains and that employment often doesn’t grow as strongly in high-tax states.
Moore is a supporter of the low-tax mantra of Arthur Laffer, an economist who led Brownback and Kansas into the tax-cut wasteland and the subsequent decimation of state revenues in 2014.
In part of his article, Moore pointedly criticized a column written by Paul Krugman of The New York Times, who had lambasted the Kansas tax cut strategy and wondered “how did the charlatans and cranks end up dictating policy in Kansas...?”
Moore responded that states following “Krugman’s (and President Obama’s) economic strategy to a tee are getting clobbered by tax-cutting states.”
Revved up, Moore then added:
“No-income-tax Texas gained 1 million jobs over the last five years; California, with its 13 percent tax rate, managed to lose jobs. Oops. Florida gained hundreds of thousands of jobs while New York lost jobs. Oops.”
I reread Moore’s column a few days ago, after I had finished research for an editorial on the anemic job growth rate in Kansas under Brownback’s time in office.
Here are the four problems I subsequently found in that single paragraph written by Moore, which led to a corrected version of his column being posted on The Star’s website. Moore approved the correction in an email exchange with The Star.
No. 1: When Moore wrote about job creation “over the last five years,” he told The Star that he had measured from December 2007 to December 2012, using federal Bureau of Labor Statistics information.
That was an odd and ultimately misleading decision for readers. The bureau’s data is updated monthly, so “the last five years” easily could and should have been from mid-2009 to mid-2014. That would have provided more up-to-date figures, not 18-month-old data.
No. 2: Texas did not gain 1 million jobs in that 2007-2012 period. The correct figure was a gain of 497,400 jobs.
No. 3: Florida did not add hundreds of thousands of jobs in that span. It lost 461,500 jobs.
No. 4: New York, which has one of the highest income tax rates, did not lose jobs during that time. It gained 75,900 jobs.
As someone who has pored over the Bureau of Labor Statistics sheets for many months, I know figures can be skewed and cherry-picked by people on both sides of this tax-cut debate.
California since December 2012 — when Moore stopped measuring employment growth — has added 541,000 jobs, which is more than Texas’ 523,400. So, high taxes are good?
The problems with Moore’s opinion article damaged his credibility on the jobs issue.
They also didn’t help bolster Brownback’s case that the tax cuts are going to work out just fine for the state’s residents in the future.
more Heritage Foundation economist defends Sam Brownback, attacks Paul Krugman, but then ... oops | The Kansas City Star
This rives what I have been saying all along - Reaganomics is welfare for the rich just like David Stockman said years ago.
Obama sure reversed that in a big way.
How many Americans using food stamps these days? 40%?.. 50%?
How many Americans using food stamps these days? 40%?.. 50%?
This was address the other day: food stamp use increased as Bush's Great Recession worsened. In the past couple of years as Obama successfully ended that Recession, use of food stamps has decreased.