Something simply *has* to change in politics

[BornRuff]

Maybe that's why many ho-hum voters in Ontario hate Alberta so much, they don't screw around and it is a step above the complacency you find elsewhere.

It seems like the difference between "not screwing around" and "complacency" for you just comes down to if you like the party in power or not.

In Alberta, they elected the exact same party 43 years in a row. That seems somewhat complacent to me.

I don't think complacent really describes Ontario very well. We have a pretty lively political dialogue and power changes hands a lot more often than in Alberta.

It seems like you are calling Ontario residents complacent simply because they have not voted the Liberals out of office yet, but that really has more to do with a lack of viable alternatives.

 

[JLM]

So let me get this straight. You are the one going on about how the government doesn't have the right to violate you regardless of how many people vote for those violations. The constitution is the document that provides you with those protections. Yet now you want to toss the constitution out the window because you feel like violating someone else?

Can you please try to answer the questions I posed to you?

"If we can't create laws through the democratic process, what way is there to create any sort of law that would be legitimate in your books?

It sounds like you would be very supportive of passing laws to limit spending by politicians, correct? How would you go about doing that?"

I think we should get back on the topic at hand. Alison Redford is a pompous bitch who squandered $45 G's of the public's money to attend a funeral.

 

[PoliticalNick]

You make it seem like you are joking with this last comment, but it is really the only logical conclusion of you previous comments in that post.

Sorry for the confusion on your part....I wasn't joking! I could run this planet far, far better than most of the governments in existence today and still have time for 18 holes after lunch.

Lets play a thought game.

OK, but I usually don't play games when my opponent doesn't have all the pieces.

What system would you want if you were not the omnipotent dictator?

I'm sticking with me as dictator. I would be wonderful and benevolent and all would love me!

Would you want to live in a world where I could randomly stop by one day and toss you in a pot of boiling oil simply because you displeased me in an unspecified way?

Whatever the system I invite you to try that.

Is it really better to be at the whim of a dictator than at the will of a government that you have a say in creating?

You are a completely blind fool. You buy their illusion of choice put forward every 4 years like it is real. We have NO say in creating our govt or the system. Many countries have done quite well under benevolent dictators (Cuba, Libya, Argentina). All have had universal comprehensive healthcare and free education under dictatorial leadership, we can't get that with all the pols being owned by corporations. In fact our healthcare and education is falling faster than a Malaysian airliner under this 'wonderful' democracy. Our natural resources are sold off for pittance to the corporate masters of our govt. Billionaires who can buy a few politicians get tax cuts while the citizens get the bill. This 'democracy' has given corporations and animals more rights than the people. No Ruffy, I do not choose this farce if I have a say in the matter, at least a dictator tells me I'm gonna get f*cked in the *** before he does it, these guys in Ottawa tell us it will feel good and improve our lives. You can keep em!

I think we should get back on the topic at hand. Alison Redford is a pompous bitch who squandered $45 G's of the public's money to attend a funeral.

...and she got to leave with her pension, benefits and assets all in tact.:roll:

 

[BornRuff]

I think we should get back on the topic at hand. Alison Redford is a pompous bitch who squandered $45 G's of the public's money to attend a funeral.

Attending events as a representative of Alberta is right in the job description. She obviously did it at a higher cost than she could have, but the event itself was perfectly legitimate. Tons of politicians from Canada went, many with a much less connection to Mandela than Redford has.

 

[darkbeaver]

Canada is a dictatorship of banks. No matter what the elected suits and toupees spew they all grovel to the City of London and cold hard gold. The electorate are taxable blobs of clay.

 

[BornRuff]

You are a completely blind fool. You buy their illusion of choice put forward every 4 years like it is real. We have NO say in creating our govt or the system. Many countries have done quite well under benevolent dictators (Cuba, Libya, Argentina). All have had universal comprehensive healthcare and free education under dictatorial leadership, we can't get that with all the pols being owned by corporations. In fact our healthcare and education is falling faster than a Malaysian airliner under this 'wonderful' democracy. Our natural resources are sold off for pittance to the corporate masters of our govt. Billionaires who can buy a few politicians get tax cuts while the citizens get the bill. This 'democracy' has given corporations and animals more rights than the people. No Ruffy, I do not choose this farce if I have a say in the matter, at least a dictator tells me I'm gonna get f*cked in the *** before he does it, these guys in Ottawa tell us it will feel good and improve our lives. You can keep em!

Why do you not live in Cuba, Libya, or Argentina if they are so much better? Obviously living in Canada has you on the verge of an aneurysm.

Any comprehensive measure of quality of life pegs Canada way above those places, so I am quite happy to stay here. Democracy is imperfect, but it is a hell of a lot of a better bet than leaving everything up to one random person.

...and she got to leave with her pension, benefits and assets all in tact.:roll:

You can't take away people's earnings or assets just because you don't like them.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Why do you not live in Cuba, Libya, or Argentina if they are so much better?

Because they won't let me be dictator either and I have family here.

Obviously living in Canada has you on the verge of an aneurysm.

Sure hope not, I'll be long dead before my appt for a CT scan comes around.

Any comprehensive measure of quality of life pegs Canada way above those places, so I am quite happy to stay here. Democracy is imperfect, but it is a hell of a lot of a better bet than leaving everything up to one random person.

Sure, I love the higher taxes, disappearing rights and the illusion of choice and having a say in things.

You can't take away people's earnings or assets just because you don't like them.

The corporate puppets take away mine and they don't even know me. Fair is fair. She stole and squandered my money, I should be able to steal and squander hers. She still has many years to put that law degree to work and earn a living instead of flying her family on vacations I pay for.

It ain't because I don't like her, heck I don't know her. It is because she squandered public funds for her personal benefit and enjoyment and that is NOT in her job description. It is tantamount to theft and she should pay a penalty. It's not like she really deserves that gold-plated pension for her few years of service.

 

[darkbeaver]

One random benevolent dictator is better than hundreds of elected trough feeders

 

[JLM]

...and she got to leave with her pension, benefits and assets all in tact.:roll:

It's amazing how many don't seem to understand that fact! Maybe if she was doing people's laundry for a living she'd appreciate the value of money a little more!

One random benevolent dictator is better than hundreds of elected trough feeders

That is very true but some people can seem to stand being "ordered" around. I guess the only problem today is there is so much stuff to know for one guy to be giving all the orders.

 

[BornRuff]

Sure, I love the higher taxes, disappearing rights and the illusion of choice and having a say in things.

So obviously the answer is to have no rights and no choice at all? Let the government just take their cut off the top before you see any money so you don't have to worry about how high taxes are?

The corporate puppets take away mine and they don't even know me. Fair is fair. She stole and squandered my money, I should be able to steal and squander hers. She still has many years to put that law degree to work and earn a living instead of flying her family on vacations I pay for.

It ain't because I don't like her, heck I don't know her. It is because she squandered public funds for her personal benefit and enjoyment and that is NOT in her job description. It is tantamount to theft and she should pay a penalty. It's not like she really deserves that gold-plated pension for her few years of service.

You are so mad but you don't seem to know any of the facts of this situation. Alberta MLA's don't have a pension plan.

What exactly did she do with money that was just for her personal benefit and enjoyment? If she did claim any expenses like that and claim they were for work, that certainly could be fraud.

There are already laws in place that can order people to pay back money that was taken illegally.

It's amazing how many don't seem to understand that fact! Maybe if she was doing people's laundry for a living she'd appreciate the value of money a little more!

Do you want to live in a world where if your boss doesn't like the work you are doing, not only can they fire you, but take away your assets?

 

[JLM]

Attending events as a representative of Alberta is right in the job description. She obviously did it at a higher cost than she could have, but the event itself was perfectly legitimate. Tons of politicians from Canada went, many with a much less connection to Mandela than Redford has.

What's Redford's special connection to Redford? She had at least a week's notice in advance of the time and place of the funeral. What could she possibly squander $45 Gs on?

 

[darkbeaver]

It's amazing how many don't seem to understand that fact! Maybe if she was doing people's laundry for a living she'd appreciate the value of money a little more!
That is very true but some people can seem to stand being "ordered" around. I guess the only problem today is there is so much stuff to know for one guy to be giving all the orders.

I have no intention of giving all the orders I know how to delegate properly. I envision a post for you JLM should I decide to seize the country by farce.

 

[JLM]

You can't take away people's earnings or assets just because you don't like them.

No, she should be entitled to a refund of her contributions plus interest so far to the pension fund. There's no friggin' way the taxpayer should be contributing to her pension.

I have no intention of giving all the orders I know how to delegate properly. I envision a post for you JLM should I decide to seize the country by farce.

Yep, you could put me in charge of cruel and unusual punishment for political thieves! -

Do you want to live in a world where if your boss doesn't like the work you are doing, not only can they fire you, but take away your assets?

No, I think things like corruption and waste should be documented and proven.

 

[BornRuff]

What's Redford's special connection to Redford? She had at least a week's notice in advance of the time and place of the funeral. What could she possibly squander $45 Gs on?

Do you mean Mandala? She worked for him after he was released from jail back in the 90's as part of a team of lawyers helping him fight apartheid.

As for where the money went, here is the breakdown.

"— $14,992. Redford takes government plane to Ottawa to catch Prime Minister Stephen Harper's plane to South Africa.

— $10,000. Redford's assistant flies commercial to South Africa as he was not permitted on Harper plane.

— $20,000. Redford and assistant spend $10,000 each to take early commercial flight back from South Africa so premier can attend swearing-in of her new cabinet.

Total cost: $44,992"

Redford's Mandela Funeral Trip: A Breakdown Of The Costs

 

[PoliticalNick]

So obviously the answer is to have no rights and no choice at all? Let the government just take their cut off the top before you see any money so you don't have to worry about how high taxes are.

Ummmm....that is EXACTLY what we have now! I on the other hand would actually uphold actual human rights and spend the money entirely on ESSENTIAL services. No pork-barrel projects, no $35 billion on jets the US can shut down any time, no $2.7 billion on promoting multiculturalism. If it ain't infrastructure, healthcare, education or security of person and sovereignty then the govt don't fund it.

You are so mad but you don't seem to know any of the facts of this situation. Alberta MLA's don't have a pension plan.

They don't have a traditional defined benefit pension. What they get is 13% of their income in cash to invest or spend as they wish plus up to 3.25% of their income in matched RRSP contributions. For a junior back-bencher on the minimum salary that amounts to about $22,500/yr. But it ain't a publicly funded pension according to you so we should ignore it.
Alberta Legislature: New RRSP Plan For MLAs , But Critics Call It A Raise

What exactly did she do with money that was just for her personal benefit and enjoyment? If she did claim any expenses like that and claim they were for work, that certainly could be fraud.

She flew first-class, stayed in 5 star hotels, flew her daughter and the daughter's friends around first-class with 5 star hotels. Tacked 'holidays' onto government trips so the 1st class air-fare and 5 star hotels were paid for by taxpayers. I won't even go into the list of lucrative contracts given to her major supporters and underlings (hence this thread) as well as the corporate welfare and tax breaks to private sector companies (one of which will give her a lucrative job soon).

I'm in no way saying she is one of a kind in politics but we have to start the changes needed for the citizens of this country somewhere and she would be a good one to start with.

 

[Zipperfish]

I'm sticking with me as dictator.

Should've stopped after the first syllable of dictator. :lol:

 

[BornRuff]

No, she should be entitled to a refund of her contributions plus interest so far to the pension fund. There's no friggin' way the taxpayer should be contributing to her pension.

Alberta MLA's don't have a pension fund. They get a certain percentage of their pay paid into their RRSP every year.

She worked the years that she worked at the pay rate that she was paid. Why would anyone have the right to claw back pay that was legitimately earned under the terms of her employment agreement?

No, I think things like corruption and waste should be documented and proven.

Corruption and waste can be documented and proven. The fact is that in this case there is no evidence of corruption, which would imply a criminal element.

It looks like there was waste, but it was all within the rules and laws that she was required to work within.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Do you mean Mandala? She worked for him after he was released from jail back in the 90's as part of a team of lawyers helping him fight apartheid.

As for where the money went, here is the breakdown.

"— $14,992. Redford takes government plane to Ottawa to catch Prime Minister Stephen Harper's plane to South Africa.

— $10,000. Redford's assistant flies commercial to South Africa as he was not permitted on Harper plane.

— $20,000. Redford and assistant spend $10,000 each to take early commercial flight back from South Africa so premier can attend swearing-in of her new cabinet.

Total cost: $44,992"

Redford's Mandela Funeral Trip: A Breakdown Of The Costs

You forgot to include the cost of 5 star hotels and meals. I really don't know who her travel agent is but I can fly round-trip business-class to Johanasburg tomorrow for $5200 according to the air-canada website, she spent double that on a one-way flight home (twice), double that again on a one-way there for her aide and triple that just to get to Ottawa. Way I see it she cost the Alberta taxpayers about $35k too much for the flights and probably about 5 times more than required for hotels and meals. This is the sh*t we need to put a stop to. The sense of entitlement with lack of accountability needs to go and if we gotta break a few eggs to get a nice omelette I'm pretty much cool with that.

 

[BornRuff]

Ummmm....that is EXACTLY what we have now! I on the other hand would actually uphold actual human rights and spend the money entirely on ESSENTIAL services. No pork-barrel projects, no $35 billion on jets the US can shut down any time, no $2.7 billion on promoting multiculturalism. If it ain't infrastructure, healthcare, education or security of person and sovereignty then the govt don't fund it.

Lol, you just described Canada as "I love the higher taxes, disappearing rights and the illusion of choice and having a say in things.", now you changed it to this?

They don't have a traditional defined benefit pension. What they get is 13% of their income in cash to invest or spend as they wish plus up to 3.25% of their income in matched RRSP contributions. For a junior back-bencher on the minimum salary that amounts to about $22,500/yr. But it ain't a publicly funded pension according to you so we should ignore it.
Alberta Legislature: New RRSP Plan For MLAs , But Critics Call It A Raise

There is no pension plan. Each member has their own personal RRSP that they manage completely on their own. The province only makes payments into it while they are working as an MLA.

It is nothing like the pension plans that MPs and Senators get. Until recently, taxpayers were kicking in as much as $248,668 per year per MP and senator to fund their plan. The government is liable to them until they die.

She flew first-class, stayed in 5 star hotels, flew her daughter and the daughter's friends around first-class with 5 star hotels. Tacked 'holidays' onto government trips so the 1st class air-fare and 5 star hotels were paid for by taxpayers. I won't even go into the list of lucrative contracts given to her major supporters and underlings (hence this thread) as well as the corporate welfare and tax breaks to private sector companies (one of which will give her a lucrative job soon).

I'm in no way saying she is one of a kind in politics but we have to start the changes needed for the citizens of this country somewhere and she would be a good one to start with.

The main issue with her spending was with her use of government planes, not first class tickets. When she flew her kids, it was on the government plane with her. She wasn't buying them a first class ticket.

Tacking holidays onto part of a business trip is something people do all the time. I do that as often as I can.

So far all I have heard about is questions of how much she spent while on government business. If you can find anything about her expensing things not related to government business, that would be much more interesting.

It is perfectly legitimate to question how she spends money on government business, but if she is staying within the rules and laws, it isn't a legal issue.

You forgot to include the cost of 5 star hotels and meals. I really don't know who her travel agent is but I can fly round-trip business-class to Johanasburg tomorrow for $5200 according to the air-canada website, she spent double that on a one-way flight home (twice), double that again on a one-way there for her aide and triple that just to get to Ottawa. Way I see it she cost the Alberta taxpayers about $35k too much for the flights and probably about 5 times more than required for hotels and meals. This is the sh*t we need to put a stop to. The sense of entitlement with lack of accountability needs to go and if we gotta break a few eggs to get a nice omelette I'm pretty much cool with that.

Where did you see any evidence of her expensing hotels and meals for that trip?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Alberta MLA's don't have a pension fund. They get a certain percentage of their pay paid into their RRSP every year.

Wrong, they get a percentage of RRSP matched contributions PLUS 13% of their salary in cash.

She worked the years that she worked at the pay rate that she was paid. Why would anyone have the right to claw back pay that was legitimately earned under the terms of her employment agreement?

Because she failed to fulfill her side of the agreement with any responsibility or integrity. Call it a penalty for failing to fulfill her contract if it makes it easier to swallow (Then again, by the way you defend politicians I would imagine you swallow pretty good already.). Call it restitution for the $1.3 million the taxpayers now have to give her staff because she failed to fulfill her contract.

Corruption and waste can be documented and proven. The fact is that in this case there is no evidence of corruption, which would imply a criminal element.

As far as I am concerned her complete lack of fiscal responsibility with public funds constitutes corruption. She was/is a failure and it is costing Alberta taxpayers a fortune, she needs to pay, not walk away scott-free and into a lucrative private sector job provided by one of the corporations she gave our money too.

It looks like there was waste, but it was all within the rules and laws that she was required to work within.

Oh, so it was within the rules these f*ckers made for themselves and to you that makes it all ok? You really are dumb c*nt! That is the EXACT reason I propose they should not be able to introduce or pass any legislation pertaining to their own salaries, benefits or rules they operate under. Can you say "conflict of interest"?

There is no pension plan. Each member has their own personal RRSP that they manage completely on their own. The province only makes payments into it while they are working as an MLA.

PLUS 13% of their salary in cash to spend or invest as they please. It may not be a defined benefit pension plan but it is a pension benefit to the tune of $22,500/yr for the most junior MLA.

It is nothing like the pension plans that MPs and Senators get. Until recently, taxpayers were kicking in as much as $248,668 per year per MP and senator to fund their plan. The government is liable to them until they die.

That's another kettle of fish to fry. You forgot to mention they get that for 1.5 terms in office (six years of service). That sh*t all needs to go away too. Let them live on the $16000 maximum pension benefit (CPP, OAS & GIS combined) that citizens get from the govt this year.

The main issue with her spending was with her use of government planes, not first class tickets. When she flew her kids, it was on the government plane with her. She wasn't buying them a first class ticket.

Hmmm! $14k to use govt plane to go to Ottawa vs $10k to fly commercial first-class from South Africa. We would have been better off if she just went first class everywhere. I think they should all fly economy as long as it's my money they are using.

Tacking holidays onto part of a business trip is something people do all the time. I do that as often as I can.

I don't! If I were your boss I would fire your a$$. Take vacations on your dime sh*thead, not mine!

So far all I have heard about is questions of how much she spent while on government business. If you can find anything about her expensing things not related to government business, that would be much more interesting.

Government business is not an excuse for overspending. It should in fact dictate the most frugal spending possible as it is from the public funds.

It is perfectly legitimate to question how she spends money on government business, but if she is staying within the rules and laws, it isn't a legal issue.

Once again....within rules made by those spending the money. You would fit right in I'm sure making rules that allow you to spend extravagantly and using public money for personal benefit. You just admitted you use your employer's money (and I guessing you work in govt so its my money) to fund your vacations.

Where did you see any evidence of her expensing hotels and meals for that trip?

Sorry, I forgot she bunked in her sister's spare room and ate KD every night. :roll: