un freaking believable

[BornRuff]

Again, why not stick to what I type, and not your imagination.

BTW: They didn't take some, the took almost all of it.

You suggested stationing them in more than one location. They are a specialized unit that need specialized facilities, so obviously they would need to build them multiple bases to carry out that plan.

That would be making Ottawa a focal point, albeit one thereof.

How often do you think they'll need to respond to Toronto, Montreal or Ottawa, since those were the cities you focused on.

One of four locations mentioned really is not what one would normally call a focal point.

If they have to respond to something domestically, do you not think that one of these three areas is the most likely? And if it isn't, they have all the air support they could ever need to get them where they need to be.

You do realize we have more than one fleet of helo's, C 130's and so on right? You do realize they won't be driving to Ottawa right?

I don't know why you are so fixated on Ottawa.

Different missions would call for different transport. Everything they could need is already at Trenton. Sometimes ground transport would be the best option.

 

[petros]

How you figured out why this guy has property rights and we don't yet?

 

[BornRuff]

How you figured out why this guy has property rights and we don't yet?

Enlighten me.

 

[petros]

Enlighten me.

Gerryh already gave the perfect example and you have given nothing to disprove either of us.

 

[CDNBear]

You suggested stationing them in more than one location.

Nope, I asked you where they were billeted now, you said near Ottawa (I can quote you if you want). Now it would appear that you finally figured out that only one part of the group is stationed there and want to either look smart, or deflect your embarrassment.

They are a specialized unit that need specialized facilities...

They won't get that at Trenton.

In fact, CANSOFCOM will still have to train at multiple bases, as I already mentioned. The size of the parcel of land expropriated as is, is insufficient to support weapons training, and that's before you factor in the infrastructure slated to fill it. Which means they will still rely on CFB' Kingston, Borden Petawawa, and Meaford.

Whereas a refit at Borden, could put the entire CANSOFCOM and all training facilities and their dedicated air wing, on one base. Move the 436 to Borden and you have the complete global package that you're looking for.

One of four locations mentioned really is not what one would normally call a focal point.

Yep, and the most likely target.

If they have to respond to something domestically, do you not think that one of these three areas is the most likely?

Yep, and can be better served by the 427 than 8 Wing Trenton. If we're talking rapid response times to urban centers, which we are, you made it the clinch pin of your argument.

I'm not sure if you understand how big a CC177 or CC130 really is. But a CH146 is the optimal urban response platform.

And if it isn't, they have all the air support they could ever need to get them where they need to be.

Again, we're back to your logic, that all regiments should be billeted at Trenton.

I don't know why you are so fixated on Ottawa.

Actually, because it would be the most prominent target in your list. I'm surprised I had to explain that.

Different missions would call for different transport.

Air always being the best option.

Everything they could need is already at Trenton.

Except for complete training facilities, and of course the space, they had to ruin someones life to get that.

Sometimes ground transport would be the best option.

If they're walking from CFLAWC across RCAF Rd. to the Timmies maybe.

How you figured out why this guy has property rights and we don't yet?

I was thinking about that yesterday after reading your posts. I wonder if that's similar to the property deeds issued by Simcoe along the Mad and Pine rivers, granting property rights to river beds, and how that has impacted on the navigable waters act.

 

[BornRuff]

Nope, I asked you where they were billeted now, you said near Ottawa (I can quote you if you want). Now it would appear that you finally figured out that only one part of the group is stationed there and want to either look smart, or deflect your embarrassment.

This is what you said and what I explicitly responded to.

"Never said it wasn't. But if it is that critical, why not expand where they are?"

Joint Task Force 2 is in fact stationed all in one location.

They won't get that at Trenton.

In fact, CANSOFCOM will still have to train at multiple bases, as I already mentioned. The size of the parcel of land expropriated as is, is insufficient to support weapons training, and that's before you factor in the infrastructure slated to fill it. Which means they will still rely on CFB' Kingston, Borden Petawawa, and Meaford.

Whereas a refit at Borden, could put the entire CANSOFCOM and all training facilities and their dedicated air wing, on one base. Move the 436 to Borden and you have the complete global package that you're looking for.

They are looking for a new home for Joint Task Force 2, not the entire CANSOFCOM. Moving them to Borden when all of the other units are at Petawawa and Trenton makes no sense.

They already do weapons training on their much smaller parcel of land near Ottawa, so I don't see how giving much more space would do anything but expand what they can do.

Yep, and the most likely target.

Well, that is debatable. There are lots of different places that may be targets, so it is ideal to have easy access to as many as possible.

Yep, and can be better served by the 427 than 8 Wing Trenton. If we're talking rapid response times to urban centers, which we are, you made it the clinch pin of your argument.

I'm not sure if you understand how big a CC177 or CC130 really is. But a CH146 is the optimal urban response platform.

An urban response in a nearby town is only one of the things they can be called on to do. Helicopters have limited range.

8 Wing has CH146's and just about every type of transport plane that the military operates, so they are in good hands no matter what they are called on to do, weather it be in Toronto, Calgary, or Afghanistan.

Again, we're back to your logic, that all regiments should be billeted at Trenton.

Lol, no.

Actually, because it would be the most prominent target in your list. I'm surprised I had to explain that.

Again, that is debatable. Some might say Toronto since it has more people, some might say Quebec because it has more of a history of these incidents. Some might say it is the oil sands, given how controversial they are.

The point isn't to protect any one location.

Air always being the best option.

If they're walking from CFLAWC across RCAF Rd. to the Timmies maybe.

It depends on the operation. Even then, the specific type of air transport needed would also change based on the operation.

 

[CDNBear]

This is what you said and what I explicitly responded to.

"Never said it wasn't. But if it is that critical, why not expand where they are?"

Joint Task Force 2 is in fact stationed all in one location.

They are looking for a new home for Joint Task Force 2, not the entire CANSOFCOM. Moving them to Borden when all of the other units are at Petawawa and Trenton makes no sense.

They already do weapons training on their much smaller parcel of land near Ottawa, so I don't see how giving much more space would do anything but expand what they can do.

Well, that is debatable. There are lots of different places that may be targets, so it is ideal to have easy access to as many as possible.

An urban response in a nearby town is only one of the things they can be called on to do. Helicopters have limited range.

8 Wing has CH146's and just about every type of transport plane that the military operates, so they are in good hands no matter what they are called on to do, weather it be in Toronto, Calgary, or Afghanistan.

Lol, no.

Again, that is debatable. Some might say Toronto since it has more people, some might say Quebec because it has more of a history of these incidents. Some might say it is the oil sands, given how controversial they are.

The point isn't to protect any one location.

It depends on the operation. Even then, the specific type of air transport needed would also change based on the operation.

And all that peripheral baffle gab has what to do with your singular point of contention, response time?

Nothing you have said precludes Borden from being a superior choice overall.

 

[taxslave]

Ok, I keep hear this "respond quickly", respond quickly to where?

Obviously not the west coast. Or the ME

 

[CDNBear]

Obviously not the west coast. Or the ME

Oh he's attempted to move on from there, employing baffle gab, deflection, misdirection and otherwise useless commentary to distract from his obvious error.

Some peoples ego's are so fragile.

 

[BornRuff]

Obviously not the west coast. Or the ME

Trenton is the hub for all airlifts, so if they have to go anywhere that is a significant distance away, be it the west coast, the north, or the ME, it is a pretty ideal location.

And all that peripheral baffle gab has what to do with your singular point of contention, response time?

Nothing you have said precludes Borden from being a superior choice overall.

All of this is responded directly to the points that you made in your previous post. Are you abandoning those now?

 

[CDNBear]

Trenton is the hub for all airlifts, so if they have to go anywhere that is a significant distance away, be it the west coast, the north, or the ME, it is a pretty ideal location.

For one part of the whole package.

And it is the whole package that the govt is trying to sell here.

 

[taxslave]

Trenton is the hub for all airlifts, so if they have to go anywhere that is a significant distance away, be it the west coast, the north, or the ME, it is a pretty ideal location.



All of this is responded directly to the points that you made in your previous post. Are you abandoning those now?

There is a perfectly good empty army base in Chilliwack. Could have used it and then there would be ONE army unit on the west coast Could also use Cold Lake, big airport and lots of vacant land. Much closer to the North and we would not have to steal a bunch of farmer's land for no reason.

 

[CDNBear]

All of this is responded directly to the points that you made in your previous post.

No they aren't. I don't consider the attention you pay to peripheral details, with baffle gab and misdirection, "direct". No one does.

Are you abandoning those now?

Nope, I'm abandoning entertaining your nonsense. I have made a clear case that has addressed every point you've attempted to forward. Which is likely why you've resorted to misdirection, dishonesty, deflection and baffle gab.

 

[taxslave]

If the liberals win the next election this will all be moot since the first thing they will do is cut military funding and the base will never get built and all this farmland will return to bush.

 

[BornRuff]

For one part of the whole package.

And it is the whole package that the govt is trying to sell here.

They are not selling anything. They have the land and they are going ahead with building this new facility.

They require a specialized facility, so no matter where they move them they are going to have to build. Why not build it where they actually want it?

If they are currently training on a facility less than half the size over by Ottawa, what makes you think that the can't train on this much larger facility?

 

[taxslave]

They are not selling anything. They have the land and they are going ahead with building this new facility.

They require a specialized facility, so no matter where they move them they are going to have to build. Why not build it where they actually want it?

If they are currently training on a facility less than half the size over by Ottawa, what makes you think that the can't train on this much larger facility?

What makes you think they need a larger facility? Just because they said so?

 

[BornRuff]

What makes you think they need a larger facility? Just because they said so?

Yup. Many different people have been saying that they need a larger facility for well over a decade now.

No they aren't. I don't consider the attention you pay to peripheral details, with baffle gab and misdirection, "direct". No one does.

Nope, I'm abandoning entertaining your nonsense. I have made a clear case that has addressed every point you've attempted to forward. Which is likely why you've resorted to misdirection, dishonesty, deflection and baffle gab.

Lol, you apparently don't even know which unit we are talking about, so pump the breaks.

There is a perfectly good empty army base in Chilliwack. Could have used it and then there would be ONE army unit on the west coast Could also use Cold Lake, big airport and lots of vacant land. Much closer to the North and we would not have to steal a bunch of farmer's land for no reason.

I don't think that our elite units should just be put wherever there is space.

 

[CDNBear]

If they are currently training on a facility less than half the size over by Ottawa, what makes you think that the can't train on this much larger facility?

Because even with the entire scope of the expropriations, which totals just over 400 hectares, it still isn't enough to accommodate a full training facility, the likes of which already exists at Borden.

At a far greater savings to the tax payer and to multiple families.

Lol, you apparently don't even know which unit we are talking about, so pump the breaks.

LOL. your dishonesty and deflection is funny.

I don't think that our elite units should just be put wherever there is space.

I agree. Which is why Borden makes more sense.

 

[BornRuff]

Because even with the entire scope of the expropriations, which totals just over 400 hectares, it still isn't enough to accommodate a full training facility, the likes of which already exists at Borden.

The training that an elite counter-terrorism unit does is different from the stuff they are doing at Borden.

There is no evidence to suggest that JTF2 can't train on this piece of land. The fact that they currently train on a 80 hectar facility seems to logically suggest that 400 hectars is more than enough.

LOL. your dishonesty and deflection is funny.

You said it numerous times.

 

[CDNBear]

The training that an elite counter-terrorism unit does is different from the stuff they are doing at Borden.

Oooh, so it's a matter of you don't know what's at Borden or what the training requirements of a unit like the JTF is.

That explains a lot.

Maybe you should do a little research, before you make a bigger fool of yourself.