When will Govt's act? Another suicide from bullying.

[karrie]

I like the way Louis CK put it in a video someone posted in here recently. When kids bully to someone's face, they see the reaction, and think 'oh, that doesn't feel very good'. When they bully via the net or texts, there's nothing to balance out the 'hit' they scored.

That being said. As a parent, I can't control other people's kids. I find it frustrating that my kids are being taught in school that if anyone's mean to them, then they are victims and prone to suicide. Why would you instill a suicide prone victim ideology in my kids' heads? Why would you tell them how they should feel about being the brunt of bullying? The issue has become too one sided. There is more to dealing with bullying than just dealing with the bully.

Delete your child's online accounts and texting. Allow them to deal with friends via the phone, where you can monitor it and track incoming calls and nothing is 'anonymous'. Tell your kids why it is important to stand tall. Tell them they are valuable. Move if you can. Talk to them about suicide and how it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Even the Canadian Mental Health Association people I know are seeing a massive gap in the suicide prevention discussions taking place with youth these days, with parents and teachers laying the responsibility in everyone else's hands to keep kids from killing themselves, so that every time someone commits suicide, it's a massive blame game and witch hunt.

 

[Goober]

I like the way Louis CK put it in a video someone posted in here recently. When kids bully to someone's face, they see the reaction, and think 'oh, that doesn't feel very good'. When they bully via the net or texts, there's nothing to balance out the 'hit' they scored.

That being said. As a parent, I can't control other people's kids. I find it frustrating that my kids are being taught in school that if anyone's mean to them, then they are victims and prone to suicide. Why would you instill a suicide prone victim ideology in my kids' heads? Why would you tell them how they should feel about being the brunt of bullying? The issue has become too one sided. There is more to dealing with bullying than just dealing with the bully.

Delete your child's online accounts and texting. Allow them to deal with friends via the phone, where you can monitor it and track incoming calls and nothing is 'anonymous'. Tell your kids why it is important to stand tall. Tell them they are valuable. Move if you can. Talk to them about suicide and how it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Even the Canadian Mental Health Association people I know are seeing a massive gap in the suicide prevention discussions taking place with youth these days, with parents and teachers laying the responsibility in everyone else's hands to keep kids from killing themselves, so that every time someone commits suicide, it's a massive blame game and witch hunt.

How well are schools doing at stopping bullying when the evidence is clear?

 

[Sal]

How well are schools doing at stopping bullying when the evidence is clear?

I don't think we can generalize about schools. Some will be doing exceptionally well, others will be doing little. It sounds as though in some cases parents are lost about what to do. Also most people are not good at handling people who are suicidal. They are afraid to ask direct questions due to a misconception that being honest and straight forward about self harm, encourages self harm. People try to cheer people up...that is not the correct approach with anyone who is suicidal.

It is a multitude of issues that need to be addressed including internet access and how to speak to people who are suicidal.

 

[Goober]

I don't think we can generalize about schools. Some will be doing exceptionally well, others will be doing little. It sounds as though in some cases parents are lost about what to do. Also most people are not good at handling people who are suicidal. They are afraid to ask direct questions due to a misconception that being honest and straight forward about self harm, encourages self harm. People try to cheer people up...that is not the correct approach with anyone who is suicidal.

It is a multitude of issues that need to be addressed including internet access and how to speak to people who are suicidal.

I was not generalizing on this.

Schools need direction from the Provinces on what they are required to do when a report of bullying is received, investigated and confirmed.

I look at the Parsons case as a valid example of schools that did not do squat.

I look at the Police in the Parsons case as Officer-Justice system - that did not do squat -

Until the publicity - none in positions of authority, did squat.

Now we have 1 Political Party in NS offering a public inquiry.

That is why Govts have to take action.

Parents can only do so much. When they seek help, it should be there.

 

[Sal]

I was not generalizing on this.

Schools need direction from the Provinces on what they are required to do when a report of bullying is received, investigated and confirmed.

I look at the Parsons case as a valid example of schools that did not do squat.

I look at the Police in the Parsons case as Officer-Justice system - that did not do squat -

Until the publicity - none in positions of authority, did squat.

Now we have 1 Political Party in NS offering a public inquiry.

That is why Govts have to take action.

Parents can only do so much. When they seek help, it should be there.

I can only say that the schools in which I have worked over the last three years have been exceptional at handling bullying. There are policies and procedures which must be followed. Not all administrators are good at what they do. We hear of the areas where it was handled badly because it results in death and that is a terrible terrible failure on multiple levels. What we do not read about and what can not be measured are the times that these policies and procedures work and that is likely daily Goob, they are successful daily.

 

[tober]

We do not know if the mother sought help. But some have this well good parenting attitude will take care of little Suzie and the bullies will stop. Wrong. They do not stop. Often schools will bury bullying as not that important. Same with police.
Look at the Parson girl in Halifax.

My daughter was bullied. I had to sit outside the school ground with a spotting scope to catch it. We had a series of what the bureaucrateze school-speak called "team-based meetings" after that and things changed, but we had been complaining for months before I finally took to watching myself to prove it, and even then the principal tried to save his weaseling as s by denying.

How well are schools doing at stopping bullying when the evidence is clear?

Piss poor. Deny deny deny.

 

[Goober]

I can only say that the schools in which I have worked over the last three years have been exceptional at handling bullying. There are policies and procedures which must be followed. Not all administrators are good at what they do. We hear of the areas where it was handled badly because it results in death and that is a terrible terrible failure on multiple levels. What we do not read about and what can not be measured are the times that these policies and procedures work and that is likely daily Goob, they are successful daily.

During your time have you heard that schools need funds, training and assistance from the Govt & Police.
We will always have teen suicides. But when as I often refer to the Parsons case, no one was there.

 

[Sal]

During your time have you heard that schools need funds, training and assistance from the Govt & Police.
We will always have teen suicides. But when as I often refer to the Parsons case, no one was there.

In my area each school has a cop assigned to it. They visit frequently and will sometimes just sign in and wander the school when in the area. There are bullying posters in the halls at all times. The kids are taught sensitivity and there is always at least one professional speaker a year.

Part of the problem is, often kids who bullies are abused at home. So while some reasonable parent approaches another parent with great hope that this will remedy the situation, some kids are praised at home for being tough and creating turmoil at school. I know of one situation where a kid killed a small animal on the playground. Kids were traumatized as this kid jumped on it's back and broke it's spine.

This kid's dad first of all wanted to see the body of the animal and when we would not produce it, refused to believe his kid had killed anything. He tried to control and manipulate the situation. The principal we had at the time would not be bullied by the parent.

But that is an example of what administration has to deal with...parents who are d icks. No wonder they have kids who are d icks. Those kids often have a miserable home life. They too fall between the cracks. They too don't get the help they need.

 

[Goober]

In my area each school has a cop assigned to it. They visit frequently and will sometimes just sign in and wander the school when in the area. There are bullying posters in the halls at all times. The kids are taught sensitivity and there is always at least one professional speaker a year.

Part of the problem is, often kids who bullies are abused at home. So while some reasonable parent approaches another parent with great hope that this will remedy the situation, some kids are praised at home for being tough and creating turmoil at school. I know of one situation where a kid killed a small animal on the playground. Kids were traumatized as this kid jumped on it's back and broke it's spine.

This kid's dad first of all wanted to see the body of the animal and when we would not produce it, refused to believe his kid had killed anything. He tried to control and manipulate the situation. The principal we had at the time would not be bullied by the parent.

But that is an example of what administration has to deal with...parents who are d icks. No wonder they have kids who are d icks. Those kids often have a miserable home life. They too fall between the cracks. They too don't get the help they need.

The school is lucky to have such a person, very lucky.

 

[tober]

I don't think we can generalize about schools. Some will be doing exceptionally well, others will be doing little. It sounds as though in some cases parents are lost about what to do. Also most people are not good at handling people who are suicidal. They are afraid to ask direct questions due to a misconception that being honest and straight forward about self harm, encourages self harm. People try to cheer people up...that is not the correct approach with anyone who is suicidal.

It is a multitude of issues that need to be addressed including internet access and how to speak to people who are suicidal.

Your answer addresses what can be done about suicide (a pertinent issue) but not what can be done about bullying. The essential thing is to get the evidence to prove it. I mean evidence that corroborates what your child is telling you if the bullying has been previously denied. You must be able to point to a bully and produce the evidence necessary to defeat the lie. My evidence was that I saw it happen and id'd the bully face to face. My daughter was in grade three and the bully was a classmate. I watched and watched until I saw the act of physical bullying, then I walked over and identified the guilty child face to face as opposed to a dim figure in the distance. Then I went and dragged the principal from his coffee. Earlier that day he had promised my wife he would stay on the playground and watch, but he was lazy and went for coffee after 10 minutes. He had stuck it out through all of morning recess but he got lazy at lunch, as I suspected he would. He tried to deny it at first, and accuse me of wrongdoing for using a "hunting" scope, but a child witness came forward now that a parent was there. I sent an arm-twisting letter to the school and the principal had to drop the denials, and when I received a do-nothing letter in return I turned up the heat with a threat to go to the school district. If your child is being bullied and the bureaucracy is responding with denials, you must be able to produce evidence. The only way I knew to do that was to watch from a distance with a scope. Neighbors and police came by and questioned me, and when I told the cop what I was doing he smiled, wished me luck and left.

 

[Sal]

The school is lucky to have such a person, very lucky.

the conversation flowed out from the closed door much like thunder ... the parent was told this isn't CSI if you wish to press this we can rapidly move forward and make this into a legal issue or we can problem solve this beginning with a suspension...

this guy was good...often kids who had really really poor behaviour would be in-school suspended because if they were home suspended they came back worse for wear ... and that particular school is in a very wealthy area...

there are so many variables, it is hard for people to understand that bullies are frequently bullied themselves or live in an environment that does not support them psychologically so that the child feels safe because there are rules and boundaries and aid for behaviour control

 

[Goober]

the conversation flowed out from the closed door much like thunder ... the parent was told this isn't CSI if you wish to press this we can rapidly move forward and make this into a legal issue or we can problem solve this beginning with a suspension...

this guy was good...often kids who had really really poor behaviour would be in-school suspended because if they were home suspended they came back worse for wear ... and that particular school is in a very wealthy area...

there are so many variables, it is hard for people to understand that bullies are frequently bullied themselves or live in an environment that does not support them psychologically so that the child feels safe because there are rules and boundaries and aid for behaviour control

I understand all of that. But what is being done to address the issues involved.
Some are addressing the issue but laws, direction and funding along with outreach to students & parents is needed.

And all of the above comes from Govt's.

 

[Sal]

I understand all of that. But what is being done to address the issues involved.
Some are addressing the issue but laws, direction and funding along with outreach to students & parents is needed.

And all of the above comes from Govt's.

there are lots of programs in place and outside agencies to be called in but it's a matter of accessing them, also in rough schools (especially) it involves a lot of time by both teachers and administrators and parents devoted to the trouble makers.... I've seen attitudes on this forum alone where there is little to no respect for teachers because there is in actuality zero understanding of school systems in the 21 century.

also not all administrators have a grasp on how to handle situations where de-escalation juxtaposed with almost threat needs to be used on parents, kind of the velvet glove approach... it's complex because parents have a LOT of power and influence, many admins try to bandaid the problem and hope it goes away...we know it does not, it escalates

 

[karrie]

How well are schools doing at stopping bullying when the evidence is clear?

It simply isn't as cut and dry as people think, to stop children from interacting with children, even when it's mean. I mean really, just look at the other day, a couple kids were shooting classmates with pellets at a bus stop, and people freaked out because the school suspended them for it. Or the case of the young girl who posted her boyfriend's, ex's, naked picture. People protest prosecuting her.

When we say we want 'the bullies' prosecuted, it's hollow. Because there's not such thing as 'bullies', there are simply other kids, having just as many emotional problems as the bullied child.

I can only say that the schools in which I have worked over the last three years have been exceptional at handling bullying. There are policies and procedures which must be followed. Not all administrators are good at what they do. We hear of the areas where it was handled badly because it results in death and that is a terrible terrible failure on multiple levels. What we do not read about and what can not be measured are the times that these policies and procedures work and that is likely daily Goob, they are successful daily.

We also don't think about the times where the policies and procedures work perfectly, and still a child commits suicide, and still people are left looking to blame.

I don't want to sound crass, but, a suicide is not necessarily the fault of anyone but the person who kills themselves. That doesn't get factored into the modern dialogue surrounding it.

 

[tober]

I understand all of that. But what is being done to address the issues involved.
Some are addressing the issue but laws, direction and funding along with outreach to students & parents is needed.

And all of the above comes from Govt's.

Ultimately a parent has to get involved and if necessary stay involved.

When we say we want 'the bullies' prosecuted, it's hollow. Because there's not such thing as 'bullies', there are simply other kids, having just as many emotional problems as the bullied child.

Whether or not that is true, it is insufficient. If a child came to school every day and kicked in a window, thereby costing the school money, something would be found to be done about it even if the Minister of Education had to get involved. When it is another child that is being beaten or smashed the consequence might be different than if it is a window, but the issue is more important. Because the damage is not so visible (form over substance rears its ugly head) the bureaucracy might be less proactive, so the parent must be vigilant. In the end it is still your child and you must recognize that nobody else will advocate for your child if you do not. The last thing a child needs is a parent who puts popularity with school staff ahead of the child's needs. Sometimes with a sloppy principal a teacher's hands get tied and only the parent can remove the log jam.

I don't want to sound crass, but, a suicide is not necessarily the fault of anyone but the person who kills themselves. That doesn't get factored into the modern dialogue surrounding it.

The last place we need to go is "blame the child". If a child is placed into an administrative system every day and ends up killing themselves because of bullying there, the system is at fault. Everything nasty that happens in a witch hunt might happen to staff and the root cause might never be discovered and that is unfortunate, but it is not the child's fault. The child didn't ask to be born and rarely gets to choose schools. The adults are responsible. Its like being a ship's captain. It might not be you who pulled the plug and sank the ship, but its still your ship.

 

[gerryh]

Ultimately a parent has to get involved and if necessary stay involved.



The adults are responsible. Its like being a ship's captain. It might not be you who pulled the plug and sank the ship, but its still your ship.

This is basically what I have been saying all along. It comes down to the parent being properly involved with their kids. Too many are not. It's like the brain dead parents blaming movies for their kids behaviour...... MONITOR WHAT YOUR DAMN KIDS ARE DOING AND TAKE AN ACTIVE ROLL IN PARENTING!

 

[petros]

I understand all of that. But what is being done to address the issues involved.
Some are addressing the issue but laws, direction and funding along with outreach to students & parents is needed.

And all of the above comes from Govt's.

Haven't you seen the anti-bullying TV commercials? The billboards? The T-Shirts? Or how about those Facts of Life and Different Stroke episodes? Or how about the pink shirt day?

http://www.stopabully.ca/
http://www.redcross.ca/what-we-do/v...e-prevention?gclid=CMm-l5b86rkCFeHm7Aodfz0Axw
http://www.bullyingacademy.org/?gclid=CLm0r6L86rkCFSgS7AodyhIAFQ
http://www.bullyfreezonecanada.org/
https://www.facebook.com/beboldstopbullyingca
http://www.bullyfreealberta.ca/links.htm
http://www.prevnet.ca/news/in-the-n...ant-information-on-bullying-and-cyberbullying
http://www.ohpe.ca/node/5026
http://www.thebullyproject.com/scholastic_order?gclid=CIW4j_X86rkCFY5r7Aod03UADA
http://www.stopabully.ca/
http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/bllng-prvntn-smr/index-eng.aspx


Did you find any good ideas in any of these Canadian Anti Bulling websites?

Did you notice they ALL mention parent/kid relations?

 

[karrie]

The last place we need to go is "blame the child". If a child is placed into an administrative system every day and ends up killing themselves because of bullying there, the system is at fault. Everything nasty that happens in a witch hunt might happen to staff and the root cause might never be discovered and that is unfortunate, but it is not the child's fault. The child didn't ask to be born and rarely gets to choose schools. The adults are responsible. Its like being a ship's captain. It might not be you who pulled the plug and sank the ship, but its still your ship.

It's not 'blame the child', it's merely acknowledging that the child has control over it, and we don't. Sometimes, despite doing all the right things, someone will still commit suicide. It's the unavoidable nature of suicide and depression.

 

[petros]

Stupid kids, they have no idea how beautiful life is.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Of course Gerry- Just leave it to the parents.
That is stupid.

The parents can make all the difference in the world....

First, stop raising a generation of pu$$ies. Then teach your children how to defend themselves (mine learned Kokushinki), lastly make sure they know you are 150% behind them if they have to bust a bully's nose or jaw.

My boys knew from early on they were never to start a fight but were to finish it quickly & permanently if someone else started it.