So Much for Due process, Drones

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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I'm not aware that a hard, serious question has been asked. All I hear is just another variation on "Oh, you horrible, murderous Yanks! You're horrible and murderous!"

There's no big surprise.

It's really my answer.

And by the way, by "all of them," I mean all of "ours" as well as all of "theirs."

Want a little more? OK.

I'm a bit of a student of military history, and y'know what? I can't think of a single war that really changed much of anything except temporarily and locally.

As far as the widdle bee-bees are concerned, might I suggest that you actually don't give a damn for them any more than I do? I'm just more honest about it.


Of course, you're absolutely right. I don't care about whether any body else lives or dies any more than you do.:roll:
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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There's no big surprise.




Of course, you're absolutely right. I don't care about whether any body else lives or dies any more than you do.:roll:
Seriously. Do you care if eight kids you don't know are blown up in a drone strike? Why?

If the same eight kids (or eight different kids) are killed by a tsunami, or a fire, or an outbreak of disease, does it make any difference?

I'm asking an honest question. I'll freely admit that I don't see the difference. I don't actively want anybody to die, but is the life of a child lost in a tsunami somehow of less value than the life of a child lost in a drone strike? Or in the civil war in Congo?

The US had the right form with the declaration in Japan's case. It fools no one with the one in question.
What's your authority for "the right form?"
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Seriously. Do you care if eight kids you don't know are blown up in a drone strike? Why?

If the same eight kids (or eight different kids) are killed by a tsunami, or a fire, or an outbreak of disease, does it make any difference?

I'm asking an honest question. I'll freely admit that I don't see the difference. I don't actively want anybody to die, but is the life of a child lost in a tsunami somehow of less value than the life of a child lost in a drone strike? Or in the civil war in Congo?


If you can't see the difference between a life taken by man and a life taken otherwise then I feel sorry for you.
 

WLDB

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Jun 24, 2011
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Seriously. Do you care if eight kids you don't know are blown up in a drone strike? Why?

If the same eight kids (or eight different kids) are killed by a tsunami, or a fire, or an outbreak of disease, does it make any difference?

I'm asking an honest question. I'll freely admit that I don't see the difference. I don't actively want anybody to die, but is the life of a child lost in a tsunami somehow of less value than the life of a child lost in a drone strike? Or in the civil war in Congo?

I care enough to not want their blood on my hands. If any of my tax dollars paid those who killed them then it would be in part on my hands. If they are killed in a tsunami or other natural disaster it is still tragic, but their deaths will have had no connection to me.

If all you care about is you and yours then what difference does it make to you if terrorists do come here and start major attacks? So long as they dont kill you or someone you care about you should have no problem with them given your line of thinking. A very live and let die outlook.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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If you can't see the difference between a life taken by man and a life taken otherwise then I feel sorry for you.
And you accuse me of evading hard, serious questions?

I'm really sorry you answered that way. We've been having some productive discussions lately. I hope we can get back to that quick.
 

BaalsTears

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Jan 25, 2011
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I love drone strikes, period. They're targeted, efficient, and they keep our guys safe.

I'm sure our lefty friends would prefer incinerating entire cities, like we did in the "good" war.

There are two types of Drone Attacks...Targeted Strikes that go after specific individuals and Signature Strikes that kill people whose conduct fits a profile.

America has tried to cope with a specific type of terrorism through invasion and occupation, and through drone strikes. Both of these tactics have failed. Al Qaeda is resurgent and Uncle Sam is in retreat. America is in retreat worldwide.

You're supposed to be a lawyer aren't you? Tell me what the legal basis is for Signature Drone Strikes in Yemen, Libya and Somalia?
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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America has tried to cope with a specific type of terrorism through invasion and occupation, and through drone strikes. Both of these tactics have failed. Al Qaeda is resurgent and Uncle Sam is in retreat. America is in retreat worldwide.

Keep telling yourself that.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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I care enough to not want their blood on my hands. If any of my tax dollars paid those who killed them then it would be in part on my hands. If they are killed in a tsunami or other natural disaster it is still tragic, but their deaths will have had no connection to me.
You have to draw the line somewhere. What if your tax dollars pay for an embargo or sanctions that cause children to die because the water purification system they depended on breaks down with no spare parts available because of the sanctions? Is that blood on your hands? How about people who might have lived if your country had given them a million dollars in food aid, but chose not to?

If all you care about is you and yours then what difference does it make to you if terrorists do come here and start major attacks?
Again, to be perfectly honest, it doesn't make any difference at all.

Let's be specific. I disapprove of the "war on terrorism." I think it's foolish, counterproductive, and a waste of money. But I don't think it's "illegal," and I'm damned if I can see a difference between a child killed by a missile fired from a drone and a child killed by a missile fired from a crewed aircraft, which seems to be what many people are getting all het up about.

So long as they dont kill you or someone you care about you should have no problem with them given your line of thinking. A very live and let die outlook.
I concur with reasonable safety measures for aircraft, and with forbidding known Islamic radicals from entering the U.S. But that's about it. I'm not terribly worried about being killed by a terrorist, because I understand statistics.
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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All of them.

 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Huh?

I said:

Whereupon you replied with:



What in the world do manners have to do with facts?

You think if you're rude, that it somehow makes your case more valid?


You call it rude, I call it blunt and calling a spade a spade. Killing another person on purpose is, by definition, murder.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
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In any case, I was serious when I asked the question about what it would take in today's world to produce "Shock and Awe".

I think it's a valid question because periodically you'll hear Pentagon spokesperson's hinting at the notion that they can "Shock and Awe" nations like Iran or terrorists like Al Quieda into submission, and I don't think that's possible without something as incredible by today's technology as the atom bomb was to the standard warfare technologies of WW-II.

Shock and Awe doesn't mean hitting the enemy with an overwhelming amount of the same kinds of ordinance they use. It just means you're bigger and have more weaponry... and they already know that.

Did Hilter "Shock and Awe" Brits with V-2's, like he was telling the Germans? No... the Brits just got pissed off and said, "The bastard's shooting rockets at us".

I'm concerned because, more and more, Pentagonian apologists talk like they think they can make Americans feel okay about their forces being used to obliterate an enemy target on a mass-destruction scale because it's just a "Shock and Awe" campain.

Pentagon Spokesperson: "We're going to Dresdenize Tehran in order to Shock and Awe Iran into submission."

American People: "Oh, I guess it's okay then, because it means the rest of Iran will surrender in humbleness, such that overall it's a saving of lives."

As if.

Even if you Hiroshimized Tehran, it's not going to shock-and-awe Iranians into submission... because they alread *know* such a thing is possible!

The only way you could shock-and-awe anyone today would be something like... you're armed with a special weapon which you point and shoot at the enemy, such that when it hits, the target gets instantly transported to a position 10,000 feet above where he was standing, whereupon he falls strait down without a chute, and goes splat next to his platoon-mate.

Combined with that, in the same way forces used to have drums and bagpipes to inspire the troops and intimidate the enemy, you'd have an American-woman's choir (Muslims always get discombooberated by womens' presence on a battlefield) blasting this through loudspeakers:

The Weather Girls - It's Raining Men - YouTube
 
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Zipperfish

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Apr 12, 2013
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I'm not sure "Shock and Awe" would be a big selling feature for a war now, considering it was used in Iraq, which is recognized as one of the most poorly prosecuted wars in recent history.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
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I'm not sure "Shock and Awe" would be a big selling feature for a war now, considering it was used in Iraq, which is recognized as one of the most poorly prosecuted wars in recent history.

Hmm... well... they should have asked me ahead of time, because I could have told them it wouldn't work.
 

Omicron

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Jul 28, 2010
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You call it rude, I call it blunt and calling a spade a spade. Killing another person on purpose is, by definition, murder.

Actually, it's not. In battle you're killing another person on purpose, and it's not murder.

Anyway, the point was, if you got banned, it probably wasn't for your position on war... it would have been for how you expressed that position.

You can call a turd a turd without calling it sh*t.