Margaret Thatcher is dead.

gopher

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JLM,

it's dangerous to have a solid opinion


My question was about the obvious double standards applied on this and other forums. Not about how much you know about UK or Venezuelan politics. While I do not claim to be an expert on the politics of either country, I know enough in order to form an informed judgment as to the merits of their leadership. Further, I have friends in both countries and they shed quite a bit more light on the situation in each land. The challenge I have repeatedly made is for people to apply the same standard with regard to the news of both deaths.
 

JLM

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It was she who entrenched British military presence in Northern Ireland and she was a union buster. She forced the poor to become poorer and deserves all the condemnation she has gotten. Anyone who praises her doesn't know anything about her history.

Not everyone is in agreement with Unions- there's pluses and minuses with Unions and people's opinions differ accordingly, perhaps the Unions she busted were overly militant. I know when I was a union member here in B.C. our Union president was a real militant little bastard from Old Blighty.

There were people in the U.K literally partying over her death..

Yeah, there's many ways of showing ignorance!
 

EagleSmack

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talloola

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Not everyone is in agreement with Unions- there's pluses and minuses with Unions and people's opinions differ accordingly, perhaps the Unions she busted were overly militant. I know when I was a union member here in B.C. our Union president was a real militant little bastard from Old Blighty.



Yeah, there's many ways of showing ignorance!

yes, all of the above are 'opinions' coming from the 'other' side, none of which can be shown here
as facts, and no different than all the bantering back and forth about our own politics.

the british military were in northern ireland many many years before thatcher was elected, and that
problem in northern ireland has gone on for generations.

i'm not going to jump aboard on either side, its just the 'same ole same ole', she is now 'dead', too
late to settle anything that anyone didn't like about her. She was elected, then later she lost the
election, same as happens in this country because people never want the same thing, so opinions are
either one side or the other.

Why not trash the polititions who are still alive, at least people can protest them, or 'just' not vote
for them next time, can't do much about a dead politician, and it seems in very poor taste to go on
and on as some have been, and of course the media will jump all over the ones who are very dramatic
about it, and ignore those who are respectfully saying good bye to her, which makes it seem that the
majority hated her, not so.

R I P
 

Blackleaf

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Mrs Thatcher's funeral is about to start. Watch the live BBC coverage of the ceremony here: BBC News - LIVE: Baroness Thatcher funeral

Her coffin will leave the Palace of Westminster at 10:00am, about 15 minutes from now, before being transferred to a gun carriage at the RAF's Church of St Clement Danes, then processing to St Paul's Cathedral.

The route will be lined by members of the armed forces.

The mourners will be led by the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh. The congregation includes two heads of state and 11 serving prime ministers.

Some 2,300 people are expected to attend the funeral. Around 4,000 police officers are on duty in central London

For the first time since the funeral of Sir Winston Churchill in 1965 the bells of Big Ben have been silenced.


Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York, is one of the guests who has arrived for the ceremony.


Some 2,300 people are expected to attend the funeral. Around 4,000 police officers are on duty in central London.


Guests have started to take up their seats at St Paul's Cathedral.


tweets: Falklands veterans at Ludgate Circus waiting for funeral procession.



There is a loud cheer as pensioners of the Royal Hospital Chelsea arrive by bus. They will later form a Guard of Honour on the steps of St Paul's when Baroness Thatcher's coffin arrives. The group of 16 brighten up an otherwise rather damp and overcast day.


Security is tight in central London ahead of the funeral. In the last 24 hours, hundreds of police officers have patrolled the streets with sniffer dogs trained to detect explosives.


One lady who has a fascinating story to tell is Sue Bloxham, 70, from Norfolk.

She was a 20-year-old City of London policewoman during Winston Churchill's funeral in 1965.

"I was standing just a few yards away from this point," she says, pointing from her spot in front of two red phone boxes directly opposite St Paul's.

"It feels strange, I feel almost wobbly," she says.

"There's not the same patriotism that there was for him. We were there united in supporting him.
There's one or two people round here today who are not being very respectful."


Some have travelled many more miles to be here.

Margaret Kittle, 79, who travelled to London from Winona, Canada, for the funeral, says she has been in position since Tuesday morning.

As camping is not allowed in the City since the Occupy protests she has made do with a fold-up chair and warm clothes.

"I'm a great admirer of Mrs Thatcher. I was here each time she won [general] elections," she says, standing behind the flag of her country.

"She took on Gorbachev and Reagan and liberated people from the iron curtain, she kept the Falklands in British control and took on the unions. She was a strong woman. She made Britain great again."

She says her family were at Churchill's funeral and says of Thatcher's: "It will be sad - it's the end of an era in politics."

A group of undertakers, whose firm was founded in 1789, has just put Mrs T's coffin into the hearse.

The crowds lining the streets seem to be larger than some people expected.

Mayor of London Boris Johnson told Sky News outside St Paul's: "Even for her fans and supporters like me, I don't think we expected to see quite so many people turn up to show their affection and their respect for Margaret Thatcher. It is a quite astonishing crowd."

The BBC's Home Affairs Correspondent Dominic Casciani says he has just heard the day's first protest at Ludgate Circus.

"As a military band marched up Fleet Street in all its pomp, one side of the crowd clapped them enthusiastically - but the other side booed loudly.

"Protesters chanted 'waste of money' as the band marched past."

But there aren't as many protests as some thought there would be.

At St Clement Danes, the BBC's Lesley Ashmall is watching the coffin being taken from the hearse.

"The crowd is really silent now, with very few dissenting voices, I've seen two placards.

"The bells of St Clement Danes are tolling as the body of the former prime minister is taken into the chapel."

Prayers are being said by St Clement Danes resident chaplain the Reverend David Osborn as the coffin, draped in a Union flag, is transferred to a gun carriage of the King's Troop Royal Horse Artillery for the military procession to St Paul's Cathedral.

This is the pomp and ceremony which brings tourists to London.
 
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Walter

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Lovely music and a good choice of readings, Maggie. Phillip and Elizabeth climbed the stairs in to the cathedral like they were 20 years younger this morning; good to see them healthy at their ages.
 

Blackleaf

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Some photos of the funeral:


Leaving the cathedral: Baroness Thatcher's coffin is carried down the steps of St Paul's by the bearer party before being taken to a private cremation ceremony


Sombre: Lady Thatcher's family, including (l-r) daughter Carol Thatcher, Marco Grass (the former boyfriend of Carol and a ski instructor), The Hon Lady Sarah Thatcher (the wife of Thatcher's son Sir Mark), son Sir Mark Thatcher, 2nd Baronet, grandson Michael Thatcher and granddaughter Amanda Thatcher, with the Queen and Prince Philip (behind) outside St Paul's


Respectful: Queen Elizabeth II speaks with (L-R) Marco Grass, Carol Thatcher, Sarah Thatcher and shakes hands with Sir Mark Thatcher as they leave St Paul's


Fantastic setting: An overhead view of guests attending the ceremonial funeral with Baroness Thatcher's coffin shown draped in a Union flag below St Paul's famous dome


Address: The Right Reverend Richard Chartres, Bishop of London, said: 'After the storm of a life led in the heat of political controversy, there is a great calm. The storm of conflicting opinions centres on the Mrs Thatcher who became a symbolic figure - even an ism'



Poignant: A tri-service bearer party, drawn from ships, squadrons and regiments associated with the Falklands, take the coffin on their shoulders as the gun carriage draws away


Royal guest: The Queen leaves St Paul's Cathedral with the Bishop of London (left) and the Lord Mayor of London (right) after the service


Emotional time: Lady Thatcher's son Mark Thatcher scratches his eye as he leaves the funeral service with his wife Sarah and son Michael


Confident: Margaret Thatcher's only granddaughter, 19-year-old Amanda, who lives in the United States, paid tribute to the former Prime Minister with a clear and heartfelt reading at her funeral


Rousing tune: Baroness Thatcher is believed to have begun making arrangements eight years ago for the service, which featured the British patriotic hymn "I Vow to Thee, My Country" to reflect Thatcher's intense love of her country. Included in this photo are members of the Cabinet, Prime Minister David Cameron, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, Leader of the Opposition Ed Miliband, former PMs Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Thatcher's successor John Major, and the Queen and Prince Philip. To the right of the picture is the black Mourning Sword, used for the first time since Churchill's funeral in 1965. It was carried by the Lord Mayor of London as he led the Queen and Prince Philip into St Paul's


Sad: The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh look on as the bearer party, dressed in their regimental or service uniform, bring the coffin into the cathedral


Nearing her final journey: The Union Flag-draped coffin of Lady Thatcher just after it arrives outside St Paul's on a horse-drawn gun carriage


Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson was one of the guests


Honour: The casket was mounted onto the gun carriage to be transported from St Clements to the cathedral



Rammed: Some onlookers had been waiting in Fleet Street for hours to welcome the funeral cortege



En route: The gun carriage, which has today been named after Baroness Thatcher, on its journey from the church to the cathedral for the ceremony

Sign of respect: Bashkim Krasniqi, 28, from Kosovo, holds up a sign along the route. He grabbed his spot before dawn to ensure a good view of the procession


Proud police officers take their places outside St Clement Danes this morning, ahead of the funeral procession


Emotional occasion: Gloria Martin wipes away tears....


... while another fan holds an 'I Love Maggie' T-shirt as they join the crowds on the procession route


First to arrive: Spectators gather by St Paul's Cathedral along the route of today's funeral procession. Many had arrived by 6.30am

THE NUMBERS BEHIND THE FUNERAL OF FORMER PRIME MINISTER BARONESS THATCHER


2,300- the number of guests have confirmed they will attend the service at St Paul's Cathedral.

32 – all of the current cabinet ministers are planning to attend.

50 - attendees associated with the Falklands, including veterans.

30 -attendees from Baroness Thatcher’s cabinets from 1979-1990 will attend.

Two - heads of state will attend.

11 - serving prime ministers and 17 serving foreign ministers from across the globe are attending.

170 -countries will be represented by foreign dignitaries (including members of royal families; serving presidents, prime ministers and foreign ministers; former PMs and presidents and heads of missions).

11 - Overseas Territories will be represented.

Eight horses from the King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery will be appearing in the procession - 'Mister Twister' is due to lead it.

4,000 - Officersthe Metropolitan Police have confirmed will be on duty.

6,650- online condolences have been received via the No 10 website.

36,300views of photos on Flickr released by Downing Street of items related to Baroness Thatcher and pictures from her time as Prime Minister.

1.2million views to the Prime Minister's Facebook content following the death of Lady Thatcher.

1,800 - media accredited.



Read more: Thousands line the streets for Baroness Thatcher's funeral procession with some camping overnight to get the best spot | Mail Online
 
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coldstream

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Did Mark Thatcher ever find a way to make an honest living.. i know he was gun running and organizing mercenaries in Africa for a while.. under arrest for a failed coup attempt in Sierra Leone.. a chip of the old bitch .. :)..

The whole thing looks like a faded spectacle of lost empire and declining culture... and the congenitally dim who follow that sort of thing. Glad i missed it.
 

JLM

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Did Mark Thatcher ever find a way to make an honest living.. i know he was gun running and organizing mercenaries in Africa for a while.. under arrest for a failed coup attempt in Sierra Leone.. a chip of the old bitch .. :)..

The whole thing looks like a faded spectacle of lost empire and declining culture... and the congenitally dim who follow that sort of thing. Glad i missed it.

I think you've made it abundantly clear to the whole wide world you don't like her! Maybe it's time for her to R.I.P.
 

Blackleaf

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Did Mark Thatcher ever find a way to make an honest living.. i know he was gun running and organizing mercenaries in Africa for a while.. under arrest for a failed coup attempt in Sierra Leone.. a chip of the old bitch .. :)..

On 9th January 1982 Mark Thatcher, his French co-driver, Anne-Charlotte Verney, and their mechanic went missing for six days in the Sahara whilst driving a Peugeot 504 in the Dakar Rally. They were declared missing on 12th January, a large-scale search including six military aircraft from three countries and Algerian ground troops was launched and his father flew to Dakar. The Algerian military spotted them 50 km off course on 14th January.



Before competing he said:
  • "I've now raced in Le Mans and other things – this rally is no problem".
  • "I did absolutely no preparation. Nothing."

I don't know what he's doing know but he spends most of his time living in Marbella.


The whole thing looks like a faded spectacle of lost empire and declining culture... and the congenitally dim who follow that sort of thing. Glad i missed it.


Let's put things into perspective.

This was officially only a a ceremonial funeral but, considering that it was a very rare occasion in which the Queen attended a funeral (the only other occasion being Churchill's state funeral in 1965) it was, for all intents and purposes, a state funeral like Churchill's was (protocol normally demands that the Queen is not to attend funerals).

State funerals for British Prime Ministers are very rare. Before yesterday (if you consider it a state funeral) the last one was Churchill's in 1965. Before that the last one was that of Gladstone in 1898. Before him the last one was that of Palmerston in 1865, and before him the last one was that of Wellington in 1852. These are the only British PMs to ever be given state funerals, just five of them (if you do count Thatcher's as a state funeral).

In fact, state funerals for any commoner in Britain are rare. They are almost exclusively the reserve of monarchs. Apart from those PMs listed above, the only other commoners to be given state funerals are Lord Carson (1935), Earl Haig (1928 ), Earl Roberts of Kandahar (1914), Lord Napier of Magdala (1890), Nelson (1806), Sir Isaac Newton (1727), Admiral Robert Blake (1657) and Sir Philip Sidney (1586).

Compare that to our next door neighbour, the Republic of Ireland which, since Churchill's death in 1965, has held TWENTY SIX state funerals, many for former PMs (or Taoiseachs as they call them) but also some for former presidents, other politicians, one for an aviation pioneer, one for someone who founded a library and one for a guy who wrote a dictionary. The Republic of Ireland held TEN of those state funerals in 2001 - all on the same day.

Also, compare Britain's record for state funerals to Canada. As I've mentioned, there has been no official state funeral in Britain since 1965 but Canada has had three state funerals since then, and there was also one in 1964.
 
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Blackleaf

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The word scab is used to denote someone who refuses to take part in strike action.