Try This Google..........Bermuda, Tax Avoidance

tay

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May 20, 2012
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Google parks $10 billion in Bermuda, avoiding $2 billion in taxes



Google reportedly avoided another $2 billion in taxes thanks to outsourced banking, which has already dubbed "immoral" and an "embarrassment" in media as austerity budgets reshape Europeans' lives.


­The California-based Internet giant shifted $9.8 billion in revenues into a no-tax Bermuda company, cutting its overall income tax rate almost by half, Bloomberg cites the company's subsidiary financials as showing.

Information disclosed on the increase in Google’s revenues routed to Bermuda could add fuel to the outrage spreading across Europe and the US over corporate tax dodging, the agency reports.


more


Google parks $10 billion in Bermuda, avoiding $2 billion in taxes — RT
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Tax avoidance is a perfectly acceptable and legal practice.

I guess that the take-away on this is that Democrats should have expected to see a reaction from Corp America such as what we see here.
 

TeddyBallgame

Time Out
Mar 30, 2012
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Tax avoidance is a perfectly acceptable and legal practice.

I guess that the take-away on this is that Democrats should have expected to see a reaction from Corp America such as what we see here.

- CM ... You are right about tax avoidance - as distinct from tax evasion - and this is well documented in British common law as well as in American jurisprudence as evidenced by comments from leading jurists like the great Judge Learned Hand who rejected any theory of public duty to pay more than the law requires: "There is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands; taxes are enforced exactions not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant."

- So Google has no duty - indeed, quite the contrary - to pay that extra $2 billion so that management trainee in chief Obama can piss it all away on Solyndra or other corporate losers among the $97 billion he handed out in his crony capitalism binge to so called green energy companies.

- But maybe Obama can get his chief weasel in the senate, harry Reid, to start a rumour that Google hasn't even filed their tax returns for the past ten years nor paid a penny in taxes. It worked with the morons who demonized Romney and voted for four more years of incompetence and waste and corruption and misery.

- Oh well, at least the morons will get "free" phones and "free" birth control pills from The Donkey Party and thereby give them things to do in lieu of employment.
 

captain morgan

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It's only a matter of time before the floodgates open and more multinationals start to assume the same practice as Google and Apple.... It'll be endless fun to observe the incessant moaning about these companies not paying their 'fair share' into the kitty.

On a related note, I wonder if this event might influence the Democrats to move to the middle on their tax increases?

Yeah, I doubt it too
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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Tax avoidance or lax enforcement? Fat cats should worry.
In lean times, even the feral chickens of Bermuda will be eaten.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Too funny... Google uses perfectly legal avenues to minimize their tax bill and you call it welfare, yet when you (personally) take advantage of writing-off your financing charges on your home, that is somehow different.
 

damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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With the stroke of a pen the governments in the west could make it illegal and if caught it would
be subject to the forfeiture of crime legislation. Avoidance should of course be illegal as everyone
should pay their share. In addition the penalties should be so severe no one would risk it.
 

gopher

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There's nothing in principle stopping you from doing the same - it may not make sense financially, but you are free to take the same path


When I worked for the IRS's tax shelter unit those shelter schemes involved investments of tens of thousands of dollars. That might be pocket change for you but it certainly isn't for me.
 

captain morgan

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With the stroke of a pen the governments in the west could make it illegal and if caught it would
be subject to the forfeiture of crime legislation. Avoidance should of course be illegal as everyone
should pay their share. In addition the penalties should be so severe no one would risk it.

What's a 'fair share' DG?

Right now, 'fair' seems to increase with the amount of money that is made... Hardly 'fair' and certainly doesn't motivate.

In terms of making it illegal; I believe that you'd have an extremely difficult time (if not impossible) trying to get every nation on the same page.. The alternative is to completely vacate any mfg and administration in those nations that have high tax rates and set up shop in the lower tax jurisdictions... That is the circumstance with China today



When I worked for the IRS's tax shelter unit those shelter schemes involved investments of tens of thousands of dollars. That might be pocket change for you but it certainly isn't for me.

I agree, but the fact remains that you are able to legitimately take advantage of those perfectly legal avenues if you so choose.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I thought Google's motto "Was do no evil." While using overseas banks to avoid taxes is not illegal it certainly does not place the user on moral high ground as Mr. Romney found out.
 

damngrumpy

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First of all fair share is determined by the tax department and likely somewhere near the amount
before the rich got those big tax cuts. This isn't about motivation its about being part of a society,
and doing your part. Lets not get into they give to charity either, they get in charity because they
get an additional tax break.
I am not suggesting to gouge the rich but they should be paying a higher portion to the common
good.
As for getting the nations all on side, not to worry, governments in Europe limit the flow of funds
coming and going. Deal with the countries here first, if they decide to leave that is fine but they
pay back every tax break they got from government first. Besides governments, are made up of
the people and they are quirt capable of dealing with corporations in a more civilized manner than
threatening each other. Ever noticed, when a government makes a law the companies cry foul
and when the companies threaten society that is somehow excused or people become fearful.
It is time a tax code was spelled out and the government got a backbone.
At least Obama is sticking to his guns on the latest round, and if the Republicans let this thing go too
far they will be blamed for the mess and disaster it will create. Should that happen the Republicans
won't elect a President for fifty years.
 

TeddyBallgame

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Mar 30, 2012
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- DG ... While I don't expect an actual cogent answer or an7y other answer to this anymore than I got an answer when I challenged your recent ridiculous assertion that history shows Americans live better under the Democrats than under the Republicans (wisely, you ran away and hid that time), I can't help asking you the following questions:

1/ Do you seriously expect any rational person to believe that the top 10% of income earners who pay 70% of the income tax are not paying their fair share of income taxes?

2/ Do you seriously expect any rational person to believe that all or even most of the bottom 47% of income earners who pay 0% of the income tax and collect the lion's share of government benefits are paying their fair share of income taxes?

3/ What - exactly - is your fair share concept when it comes to taxation? For example, should the top 10% pay 100% of the income taxes while the bottom 90% pay 0% of said taxes? Alternatively, should everyone make broadly the same income as determined and distributed by the state in a communist system which also outlaws private property and incentives for working harder and smarter and producing more and other free enterprise notions? Does "history show" that people in states run along these socialist or quasi communist lines really live better than people in states in which free markets and free people drive the economy forward?
 

captain morgan

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First of all fair share is determined by the tax department and likely somewhere near the amount
before the rich got those big tax cuts.

That rate(s) is a moving target depending on your income. Quite frankly, the comment about 'fair share' is merely paying lip service to fairness and equality.

This isn't about motivation its about being part of a society,
and doing your part.

People in every tax bracket are motivated by how much they can keep in their jeans... Some people get a GST rebate cheque in the mail and, if you make over a certain amount of money, you don't get that cheque... Tell me there's no motivation in that equation

Lets not get into they give to charity either, they get in charity because they
get an additional tax break.

Think about what you just wrote: that someone gets a tax break for donating to a charity... They pay the dollars regardless so does that qualify as some magical tax break?... Hardly, you pay the same dollars, just to a charity rather than gvt

BTW - there's nothing stopping you from doing the same and getting

As far as the balance of the unspecified tax breaks that seem to be referred to but never really articulated, those are pseudo-bribes designed to get these private groups to spend money and hire individuals. As far as I know, these tax breaks are, at best, deferrals of the full payments and not forgiveness of them (read: all the tax revenues will eventually be paid)

I am not suggesting to gouge the rich but they should be paying a higher portion to the common
good.

That's exactly what you're suggesting; all under the guise of 'fair share' - (whatever that really means)

As for getting the nations all on side, not to worry, governments in Europe limit the flow of funds
coming and going. Deal with the countries here first, if they decide to leave that is fine but they
pay back every tax break they got from government first. Besides governments, are made up of
the people and they are quirt capable of dealing with corporations in a more civilized manner than
threatening each other.

'If they decide to leave that's fine?"

You do understand the consequences of this, right?... Apple, Nike, HP, Haliburton, Dell, et al, all have sourced their mfg needs offshore to take advantage of cheaper labor and materials and sell right back into their domestic market. Think of the massive amount of jobs that might have been benefiting the USA right now had there been an economic environment that motivated them to remain.

Not only would the parent company be paying more real dollars into the system, you'd have more people with gainful employment and they, as individuals would also be contributing into the tax base as opposed to collecting from it.

Ever noticed, when a government makes a law the companies cry foul
and when the companies threaten society that is somehow excused or people become fearful.

Haliburton threatened that and made good on it... Their global HQ is in the UAE (?)... All of their global revenues are paid into that nation's tax system and - you guessed it - go to the exclusive benefit of that society and not the US where the company originated.

Now, all you have to do is multiply that effect by Apple, Google, Nike, etc and you'll start to see what the macro picture starts to look like


At least Obama is sticking to his guns on the latest round, and if the Republicans let this thing go too
far they will be blamed for the mess and disaster it will create. Should that happen the Republicans
won't elect a President for fifty years.

If this backfires on Obama - and I think it will - this will be the issue that will dog him long after his career and taint his effectiveness as president.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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- DG ... While I don't expect an actual cogent answer or an7y other answer to this anymore than I got an answer when I challenged your recent ridiculous assertion that history shows Americans live better under the Democrats than under the Republicans (wisely, you ran away and hid that time), I can't help asking you the following questions:

1/ Do you seriously expect any rational person to believe that the top 10% of income earners who pay 70% of the income tax are not paying their fair share of income taxes?

2/ Do you seriously expect any rational person to believe that all or even most of the bottom 47% of income earners who pay 0% of the income tax and collect the lion's share of government benefits are paying their fair share of income taxes?

3/ What - exactly - is your fair share concept when it comes to taxation? For example, should the top 10% pay 100% of the income taxes while the bottom 90% pay 0% of said taxes? Alternatively, should everyone make broadly the same income as determined and distributed by the state in a communist system which also outlaws private property and incentives for working harder and smarter and producing more and other free enterprise notions? Does "history show" that people in states run along these socialist or quasi communist lines really live better than people in states in which free markets and free people drive the economy forward?


First of all, everyone pays taxes. Taxes are built into the prices charged to consumers. The only way they can be avoided is not to purchase anything.

Second, the reason so many Americans don't pay taxes is because they are so poorly paid they don't make enough to qualify as taxpayers.

Thirdly, many average American wage earners currently paid larger percentages of their income as taxes that do many corporate executives. Warren Buffet pointed this out several years ago and no one has refuted him.

And to answer you last question - yes - There are lots of examples of social democracies whose citizens enjoy high living standards and whose economies have a history of steady growth.
 

taxslave

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Companies do not have a moral or legal obligation to pay any more tax than what they have to. They do however have both a legal and moral obligation to maximize return to shareholders. If you were a google shareholder you would be rightfully POed if they did not move money offshore.

Before people get too self righteous about taxing companies out of existence they might consider just where their pension funds are parked. Careful you don't bite the hand that feeds you.