My Confession

[Peaches]

Yes if we break the law at one point we are guilty of breaking all of it. In public it is not harmless others with various weaknesses might be tempted, confused. And what about children so it is not so harmless, what about the harm to myself or to my poor wife before she was ill. It is not harmless. Jesus brought a New Testament so many of the Old Testament laws were irrelevant - no need to sacrafice lambs, Christ died for us, many dietary rules went by the way as well. I am no authority a Minister could probably sort all of this out. That is beyond me. It is true we are not to judge others, but we are to repent and work out our salvation soberly - fear and trembling. To many this may seem trivial, but it is not. Perhaps it was pointless to post this.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Peaches, are you looking for people here to beat you up (figuratively) for you
just being who you are?

 

[gerryh]

Yes if we break the law at one point we are guilty of breaking all of it. In public it is not harmless others with various weaknesses might be tempted, confused. And what about children so it is not so harmless, what about the harm to myself or to my poor wife before she was ill. It is not harmless. Jesus brought a New Testament so many of the Old Testament laws were irrelevant - no need to sacrafice lambs, Christ died for us, many dietary rules went by the way as well. I am no authority a Minister could probably sort all of this out. That is beyond me. It is true we are not to judge others, but we are to repent and work out our salvation soberly - fear and trembling. To many this may seem trivial, but it is not. Perhaps it was pointless to post this.

Like I said, peaches, show me where it is a sin? What harm has it done to you, your kids, or your wife? The only harm I see is brought on by others telling you it is a sin and you getting all uptight about it. The harm I see is being done by others, not by what you are doing.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

This is typical of the kind of thing that really makes me angry about biblical literalism and religious fundamentalism, it has done and continues to do Peaches terrible psychological and emotional harm: "She knew my sin we have been married over 21 years now, soon I will be alone again. God's judgement on me..." You really think god's killing your wife to punish you? That's thud and blunder Protestant fundamentalism of the worst sort, that has nothing to do with Jesus' message to suffering humanity, you have been lied to and manipulated by people you should have been able to trust to look out for you. Pay attention to gerryh, I don't agree with him about much but he's certainly got this one right.

 

[Peaches]

I do appreciate your thoughts. I do take scripture as the inspired word of God, thus our denomination study it earnestly and base our reformed doctrine that can only be supported by scripture - biblically based. I appreciate all of your honest thoughts. Johnathan Edwards was Presbyterian - "sinners in the hands of an angry God" - dangling by a frayed thread above the fires of hell. It could cause you to become mentally ill questioning even your own thoughts and motives - makes me shudder! Who knows - I could be a cinder in the after life? I know that Christianity has died out in many places in Canada. I am prone to rationalize, prone to wander from the one I love so an old hymn goes. We are all crazy in some way I suppose I could be addicted to cocain or alcohol, or be a serial killer - could be worse. but it is what it is in the end. There are persons born with ambiguous genetalia, and they are messed up. Are Homosexuals born that way? Was I created this way? Could be a cop-out. I suppose someday I will find out. Is my brain partly feminine? We could question what is feminin vs masculine yet there is scientfic proof that the male and the female brain are different and we do process information differently, and arrive at answers using reasoning that differs. Females are better at some things, Males at other things. I question are some of my traits feminine but no matter what I could possibly do I will always be a genetic male. But it may be true that God made me like this for a reason, I do love the company of women frequently or usually more than that of men. No interest in sports or competition, I could go on and on - but I am probably rationalizing. Who knows. I am not completely closed to the idea.

 

[In Between Man]

I think that's evil.

Based on what objective standard? (not your opinion)

 

[gerryh]

I'm sorry, the OT God of retribution, hell, and damnation does not square with what our Lord Jesus Christ taught. I don't buy into it at all. All it is, is a way for some to make themselves important by making others feel useless and unworthy.

Jesus tells us that God Loves all his children (us) unconditionally. How can you square that with hell fire, retribution, and damnation?

 

[Peaches]

Thank you all for your posts and thoughts. I spent 20 years in the Nurse Corps and was passed over, changed services was passed over again but given a contract to complete my 20 years because of my Masters degree in Nursing, and finished with a CDE (certification in Diabetic Education) I could lead myself, but had no desire to lead others so finished as a Capt. Feminine? Hell no reverse discrimination, those women were quite competitive with tremendous leadership/managerial ability some in even a motherly way I did have some really wonderful bosses. Stereo typing and over simplification.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Based on what objective standard? (not your opinion)

The harm it has done Peaches.

 

[gerryh]

.

Peaches, you have yet to answer any of my query's. Why?

 

[damngrumpy]

In many cases the Old Testament, like the New Testament, was put together in
parables and stories to reach people who by and large could not read and write.
Most of these stories were never meant to be literal, and only through society and
customs did they become so.
The Muslims are where we were some four hundred years ago and longer until
we began to implement education and reason.
This guy is beating himself up, and why he is caught between the ancient past that
was meant to be a symbolism and an educated society that knows the difference.
Gods judgement is really our own judgement, and we hear about plucking out one's
eye for example but Jesus never meant literally you should go about plucking out
your eye especially if your body is considered a temple for the Holy Spirit.
There is no sin here in except in your own mind and in that it could not constitute a
sin in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Peaches]

Huh? Sorry, thought I was responding in a general way. Hum...Because God is Perfect and Must Judge. There is no relevitism in Christianity so God judges between good and evil or sin. Either you believe or you do not. God selected his elect before the world was formed, most of mankind will reject God. If you believe at all it is because the Spirit is working in you, Christ will not lose those who are his own. Presbyterianism (Calvinism) has this view and it has many many scriptural proofs which can be provided in support. Personally I hold that there is a universal faith as long as a professing christian of any denomination has the basics correct as written in the ancient nicene creed they are true christians.

 

[gerryh]

We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."


Nothing in there about hell fire and damnation. Nothing in there about having to take the OT literally. As far as I am concerned, those that preach hell fire and damnation are working AGAINST Jesus Christ. They are perverting his message. The message that he died on the cross for.

 

[damngrumpy]

God is also depicted as a father, would a father throw his child into a furnace?
If so enough said. it is symbolism my friend, we all create our own hell and in
turn we have to work our way out of our own hell.
The problem with religion today is that it is not about a spiritual experience it is
about politics and control. That applies to Christians, Muslims and God knows
who else.
This is the reason why so many have left the church of their choice and moved on.
Some in fact do their own relationship with God and others say forget it and they
believe in nothing.
If there is going to be a judgement day, I believe you will be well down the list of
priorities, some of those who claim to represent God would judged more.
But many people I know believe God is about forgiveness and redemption rather
than judgement and punishment.

 

[Peaches]

Here is just one of many mentions of Hell by Jesus: "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after can do no more. But I will show youwhom you should fear: fear him who , after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell..." If there is no heaven or separation from God (hell) there was no point to Christ giving his life on the cross for our salvation. Read Isaiah 53 - who is described there hundreds of years before the crucifixion of Christ. We are not ignorant, There are christians of high education Lawyers, Doctors, Scientists. Christ was not being literal stating if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out. Christians do not check their brain at the door. Atheism is a faith, Agnosticism is reasonable, then there are those who have Faith. There is no other God like the Christian God. Through all of time including today men of the highest intellect have or had faith in Christ.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Atheism is a faith.

No it's not, it has no content at all, it's just a rejection of the core theistic and deistic claims, essentially on grounds of insufficient evidence.

 

[Peaches]

God is also depicted as a father, would a father throw his child into a furnace?
If so enough said. it is symbolism my friend, we all create our own hell and in
turn we have to work our way out of our own hell.
The problem with religion today is that it is not about a spiritual experience it is
about politics and control. That applies to Christians, Muslims and God knows
who else.
This is the reason why so many have left the church of their choice and moved on.
Some in fact do their own relationship with God and others say forget it and they
believe in nothing.
If there is going to be a judgement day, I believe you will be well down the list of
priorities, some of those who claim to represent God would judged more.
But many people I know believe God is about forgiveness and redemption rather
than judgement and punishment.

God is love. On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus, "teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life? "What is written in the law?" he replied, "How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' and, Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." Total devotion to God Implies Complete Faith in Jesus who is part of the trinity or God. It is by Faith that you have been saved, not as a result of works. Works are merely signs of a changed heart. Salvation is a gift given to those who repent of their sins and place their faith in Christ, foolishness to non beleivers.

 

[damngrumpy]

Why is it that so many Christians I know speak of Love, Forgiveness and Redemption.
While so many others concentrate on punishment, condemnation and that is a weapon,
and the weapon is Fear.
Fear of God, someone who is supposed to be about love, guidance, and forgiveness?
Some religions make God sound like the Boogieman under their bed rather than their
inspirational leader. For those that fit into this category it would be best to think about
the meaning of their spiritual experience. Should it be about Faith and peace of mind.
Or should it be like a Freddie Kruger Halloween night every day?
Personally if I was fed a diet of fear, condemnation and judgement I would leave.
The problem with religion in our modern society is that the religious leaders and the
faith doctrine drives people away from the church rather than trying to get them to come
closer and want to be a part of a positive experience.
Sometimes we look at things and fail to see what is really there and others delude themselves
into reinforcing the doctrine they want to believe.
There is an old joke about the Irish guy who told the priest he was going to hell for stealing a rope.
The priest said God would not send you to hell for stealing a rope, why would you think that?
The man replied, "Because, Father, there was a cow on the end of that rope"
In short be honest with yourself. Does the heavy drama match what God says he's about or
am I on a journey that is not mine? Think for yourself and determine what makes sense.

 

[Peaches]

Man carries the seed of sin, we are prone to sin, we are infact totaly depraved and cannot even turn to God without the aid of the spirit working in the heart of his elect. God's judgement is just therefore, God created Man for his own glorification and purpose, and God could have juged all of mankind and sent them to hell, yet he decided to save some. We come before God without excuse deserving judgement, but to show his love he came to earth to die for those who would repent and place their faith in Him (His elect) Most of mankind will refuse Gods offer of salvation. God forgives our imperfections but we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling through the process of sanctification in sincere devotion we tell ourselves the gospel ore recall it every day because we are imperfect. How can a perfectly just God overlook sin? You are ignoring the part of the scripture you do not like, faith requires we receive the entire message. Basic Christianity. You are free to reject it - God still loves you, as I love you but there will be justice in the end. So I will struggle with my crossdressing and other sins in my sinful nature. I really do believe that it is not normal or natural, and is also a sexual perversion a torment for me - could be though that my brain was made this way - I am inclined to doubt it my sinful nature would rather do otherwise and is at war with my spiritual side. Even paul struggled with sin - Oh wretched man that I am .... to each his own.

 

[petros]

No it's not, it has no content at all, it's just a rejection of the core theistic and deistic claims, essentially on grounds of insufficient evidence.

So you have no faith in your belief of nothing? You don't sound sure of yourself.

Man carries the seed of sin, we are prone to sin, we are infact totaly depraved and cannot even turn to God without the aid of the spirit working in the heart of his elect. God's judgement is just therefore, God created Man for his own glorification and purpose, and God could have juged all of mankind and sent them to hell, yet he decided to save some. We come before God without excuse deserving judgement, but to show his love he came to earth to die for those who would repent and place their faith in Him (His elect) Most of mankind will refuse Gods offer of salvation. God forgives our imperfections but we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling through the process of sanctification in sincere devotion we tell ourselves the gospel ore recall it every day because we are imperfect. How can a perfectly just God overlook sin? You are ignoring the part of the scripture you do not like, faith requires we receive the entire message. Basic Christianity. You are free to reject it - God still loves you, as I love you but there will be justice in the end. So I will struggle with my crossdressing and other sins in my sinful nature. I really do believe that it is not normal or natural, and is also a sexual perversion a torment for me - could be though that my brain was made this way - I am inclined to doubt it my sinful nature would rather do otherwise and is at war with my spiritual side. Even paul struggled with sin - Oh wretched man that I am .... to each his own.

If God loves you and pre-forgives you as stated by Jesus why would He judge you? Read your Bible, that is in there but what isn't in there is man's laws and judgements

Jesus was pretty clear when he said Pharisees and scribes sit in the seat of Moses. What does that mean to you? To me it says man screwed up God's laws and he was pissed off about it. From Solomon back to Abraham there was no religion, only God's laws, jesus was very clear that we stick by those laws because those were the laws of God and not man. man's laws mean nothing to God therefore He won't be judging you based on man's laws.

Hell? Hell is just the Jerusalem garbage dump, with fires, rotting flesh (from animal sacrifices) and boiling excrement (**** fires, still done today in some places) It was just a metaphor.


Stay away from the trash in the OT. The NT is for Christians. The only thing of importacnce to Christians from the OT is God's laws. Jesus laid out the rest.