A legal question

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

There was nothing really significant as no evidence of psychic phenomena was ever discovered in spite of wasting millions of dollars on it. There was some logic to the project in that if something like telepathy or distance viewing actually existed then it would have made it impossible for the USSR to hide any secrets from the US. As is turned out the Russians were into the same research for the same reasons. Ironically, the fact that both nations were involved in paranormal research was seen as evidence by each side that there might actually be something to psychic phenomena. Sadly, or perhaps fortunately, in spite of years of expensive and exhaustive research nothing was found by either side.

Here is a link to the most recent project. Stargate Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And an article critiquing paranormal experiments. The Straight Dope: Did the U.S. government fund psychic research?

More recently a film was made mocking the whole idea - I expect you have heard of it. The Men Who Stare at Goats. Hombres de Mentes (2009) - IMDb

You will also find numerous articles on the internet supporting this research. However, "the proof," as the saying goes, "is in the pudding." If such phenomena actually worked why is it that both the Soviet and US intelligence systems were caught with their pants down so many times? You would think that at least once or twice they would have managed to pull off some coup with the help of their psychic agents. I mean if you can't even prevent disasters like 911 or colossal blunders like Iraq's missing WMDs then there is little evidence that such phenomena actually works.

Perhaps I should have just sent a PM. I was just wondering about your nickname.

Haha yes (obviously).

If it makes you feel better, whatever man.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

How do you know? What experiments did you perform?

Not my problem. It's up to the people who claim telepathy exists to do the experiments that prove the claim, and if you do the research you'll find that all properly done experiments fail.

 

[JLM]

Not my problem. It's up to the people who claim telepathy exists to do the experiments that prove the claim, and if you do the research you'll find that all properly done experiments fail.

NOT finding something doesn't prove anything! :smile:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If you look for something and don't find it, doesn't that mean it's not there?

 

[JLM]

If you look for something and don't find it, doesn't that mean it's not there?

Probably...........for concrete objects, that you will recognize when you find them.

 

[mentalfloss]

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Probably...........for concrete objects, that you will recognize when you find them.

That's probably the most common defense of paranormal claims, the multiple out: no matter what a test shows, you can always claim the powers are unpredictable, the phenomena are elusive and hard to identify, the test was flawed, the presence of doubters represses the powers, whatever. After over a century of serious, systematic, scholarly research into paranormal phenomena, paranormalists have failed to produce any consistent evidence that can withstand routine skeptical scrutiny, they haven't even been able to come up with a consistent, concise definition of what it is they're looking for. The only honest conclusion is that the phenomena are not real.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

You might, however, find yourself in some trouble with the rules about fraud, depending on how you market this supposed skill of yours.

I suspect that if the person didn't actually say that stuff, and the OP identifies them and says they did, Slander laws would also apply. Since telepathy is not recognized by the law, it cannot be used as the OPs defence either.

Also, if the statement caused the person any damage, the OP may be liable in a civil court as well.

 

[Kathie Bondar]

if it has no basis in reality, why did both the east and the west spend decades trying to develop it as a weapon against each other?

oooops....

 

[karrie]

Your information is false.

I know people who have been hired by police for their abilities. Whether you believe those abilities are real or not, doesn't negate the fact that police forces all over the world have hired mediums and telepaths for investigations. If you have proof otherwise, that no police forces anywhere have ever hired people for the purpose of trying to use telepathy for investigations, I'd be really interested in seeing it.

 

[Kathie Bondar]

That's probably the most common defense of paranormal claims, the multiple out: no matter what a test shows, you can always claim the powers are unpredictable, the phenomena are elusive and hard to identify, the test was flawed, the presence of doubters represses the powers, whatever. After over a century of serious, systematic, scholarly research into paranormal phenomena, paranormalists have failed to produce any consistent evidence that can withstand routine skeptical scrutiny, they haven't even been able to come up with a consistent, concise definition of what it is they're looking for. The only honest conclusion is that the phenomena are not real.

Actually, this is exactly what my work is about. If I can't put it out to you to read it, you will never know.
But thank you all for your responses, it has been helpful.

 

[mentalfloss]

I'm sure you and Sue Ann Levy could talk about it for hours.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If you have proof otherwise, that no police forces anywhere have ever hired people for the purpose of trying to use telepathy... .

Well of course I can't prove a negative claim like that, and you know that perfectly well, such a claim is in principle not provable. Do you, on the other hand, have properly attested evidence that such people have ever made a useful contribution to a police investigation? All the stories about it that I've ever encountered consist of a psychic making vague claims like "The body is near water" and it's later found in the woods 200 meters from a pond, and the psychic claims a hit, which is nonsense. The most famous of such people, Sylvia Browne, has been caught faking it several times, and making false claims to journalists and the relatives of victims, she's even told the parents of a missing child that the child is dead, and it's later turned up alive and well. She's done the opposite too, claimed someone was alive when they were eventually proven to be dead. These people can't do what they claim.

 

[karrie]

Well of course I can't prove a negative claim like that, and you know that perfectly well, such a claim is in principle not provable. Do you, on the other hand, have properly attested evidence that such people have ever made a useful contribution to a police investigation? All the stories about it that I've ever encountered consist of a psychic making vague claims like "The body is near water" and it's later found in the woods 200 meters from a pond, and the psychic claims a hit, which is nonsense. The most famous of such people, Sylvia Browne, has been caught faking it several times, and making false claims to journalists and the relatives of victims, she's even told the parents of a missing child that the child is dead, and it's later turned up alive and well. She's done the opposite too, claimed someone was alive when they were eventually proven to be dead. These people can't do what they claim.

Useful contribution isn't the point. She said that police have used telepaths in investigations, and it's true.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

With the clear implication that it was a useful and productive contribution, and that this is a routinely organized part of investigative procedures initiated by the police. I've never heard of police actually hiring a telepath, what usually happens is that self-proclaimed telepaths come forward and the police are simply duty bound to follow up every lead, then the so-called telepath makes further false claims about the utility of the contribution, including the claim that they were actually hired as part of the investigative process when in fact they were not. Sylvia Browne's claimed that repeatedly, for instance, and been repudiated by the police forces she claims to have assisted.

 

[JLM]

Useful contribution isn't the point. She said that police have used telepaths in investigations, and it's true.

Absolutely, and there are documented cases where clairvoyants have located lost children- like I've said a million times if people don't understand something, they write it off. Two hundred years ago if someone said you can flick a switch and light up a dark room, he'd have been hauled off to the funny farm. :smile:

 

[Bar Sinister]

Perhaps I should have just sent a PM. I was just wondering about your nickname.



If it makes you feel better, whatever man.

I think we had a nickname thread a year or so ago and I explained it then. But nothing complicated. first of all as you may have noted I am a bastard. Second the Latin loosely translates as "from the right to the left" and my posts cover that spectrum.

 

[Cannuck]

Absolutely, and there are documented cases where clairvoyants have located lost children

Can you provide a name?

 

[Bar Sinister]

Absolutely, and there are documented cases where clairvoyants have located lost children- like I've said a million times if people don't understand something, they write it off. Two hundred years ago if someone said you can flick a switch and light up a dark room, he'd have been hauled off to the funny farm. :smile:

There are a number of cases of so called clairvoyants claiming to have found lost children. However, there is little evidence that anything they did actually contributed to the children being found. What usually happens is that clairvoyants show up in missing persons cases, offer their help, and then take full credit if the situation turns out well. Let's face it; if clairvoyants actually were of any real use then there would be no point in organizing the elaborate searches we have seen lately in missing persons cases. Instead the local clairvoyant would simply be called in and the missing person would be located immediately. Since this never seems to happen one can only conclude that the usefulness of clairvoyants is quite limited.

 

[JLM]

Can you provide a name?

No, it's been a couple of years since I saw it on T.V.