Merged Threads of dattaswami

[dattaswami]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Fear of God will control sin
O Learned and Devoted Servants of God,
[June 20, 2011 A devotee asked, “Some people asked the question ‘who created God?’ How to reply them?”]


Swami replied: It is true that a few people exploited the concept of God for personal benefits. But, based on the few exceptions, you should not remove the basic system itself. A few railway accidents happen and due to such accidents, you should not cancel all the trains. You should concentrate to avoid the accidents. Similarly, some students might have copied in the examinations. Try to catch, such students. But, do not remove the system of examination itself. The system serves majority, doing lot of good. You forget the vast positive side of the system based on the minor negative side. The concept of God controls the sin in the society. If the concept of God is removed, lot of people will do lot of sins since already the ways to escape the punishment in courts are already available. The society will be crushed into pieces in the absence of the fear for sin. If God disappears, the hell disappears subsequently. The concept of sin will drown and destroy the society like a Tsunami. However, this does not mean that the concept of God is again a created view only to save the society. Such conclusions are not correct. The concept of God is basically true and we have explained the positive side of such concept. It is a real concept and hence, the positive side is also real. Of course, the minor negative side is also real and control should be implemented to check-up such negative exploitations.



God Himself comes down in human form to give practical proof for the existence of the unimaginable God through the exhibition of unimaginable events called as miracles. Jesus told that He has come down to fulfill, what is said in the scripture. Krishna also said that He came down since there is a necessity and He said that He will come down whenever there is a necessity. The necessity is the requirement of practical proof for the theoretical explanation of God given in the scripture. Then only, the validity comes. Science is valid since every concept in the book is experimentally proved in the laboratory. A student of science always attends the practical class in the laboratory after the theory class. The doubt about the existence of God is quite natural because there is every chance to doubt about the existence of anything, which is not understood even by intensive imagination. The human incarnation declares the existence of God after giving the practical proof. In fact, people experience the unimaginable events in their life, which indicate God. But, people do not care to analyze and remember God thereby. Even if we dispose all the miracles as magic show without careful analysis, the existence of unimaginable boundary of universe, which can be realized by anybody at anytime, is a clear proof for existence of unimaginable entity called as God.


God is said to be beyond this universe. It means that God can be seen after crossing the boundary of universe. You will reach the land after crossing the boundary of the ocean since the land is beyond ocean. You can never reach the boundary of the universe by any amount of even intensive imagination. This means that you can never imagine God and God is always unimaginable. Beyond the boundary of space, space should not exist just like beyond the boundary of ocean, water (ocean) should not exist. Since God is beyond space, space or spatial dimensions cannot exist in God. You can never imagine anything which has no spatial dimensions. Therefore, God’s existence is proved by the unimaginable miracles and God is unimaginable due to absence of spatial dimensions. The Veda clearly says that God is beyond words, beyond mind, beyond intelligence and beyond the logic. It also says that anything in the space or universe is not God since everything in the universe has some spatial dimensions (Neti...Neti...). It also says that God is the generator of space (Atmana Akashah…). The generator should not have the product in itself since the product should not exist before its generation. Therefore, God has no space or spatial dimensions and hence, is unimaginable. The Veda finally concludes that the only imagination about God is that He is unimaginable (Yasyaamatam…) and the only information about God is that He exists (Astityeva…).

 

[Cliffy]

Are you spamming us again with your BS?

 

[dattaswami]

Are you spamming us again with your BS?

no, read it we shall discuss

 

[Cliffy]

no, read it we shall discuss

Why discuss something (god) that is unimaginable & unknowable?

You say you are a holy person. How do you come by that designation? Who declared you a holy person? What makes you a holy person? And what makes you think you have anything to offer to anybody?

An enlightened being does not have to convince anybody the they are enlightened. They don't have to teach anybody anything. Their presence is enough to raise the consciousness of those around them. They are a shining example to the world. They do not brag or elevate themselves above anybody. By giving yourself the title of Lord Datta and saying you have devotees, you are breaking the cardinal rule of enlightenment, which makes you a charlatan. If you have devotees, why are you preaching on a forum in Canada? Perchance are you expecting people to start sending you donations to support "your work"? http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sourc...Ve5-50Paw&sig2=ULAKFSLE5WPc54neY9w7-A&cad=rja

.

 

[dattaswami]

Why discuss something (god) that is unimaginable & unknowable?

You say you are a holy person. How do you come by that designation? Who declared you a holy person? What makes you a holy person? And what makes you think you have anything to offer to anybody?

An enlightened being does not have to convince anybody the they are enlightened. They don't have to teach anybody anything. Their presence is enough to raise the consciousness of those around them. They are a shining example to the world. They do not brag or elevate themselves above anybody. By giving yourself the title of Lord Datta and saying you have devotees, you are breaking the cardinal rule of enlightenment, which makes you a charlatan. If you have devotees, why are you preaching on a forum in Canada? Perchance are you expecting people to start sending you donations to support "your work"?

.

The philosophy deals with the discussion of the existence of unimaginable item. When you say that God is unknown, there is a danger of establishment of the non-existence of God. Philosophy says that God is unimaginable and is existing. The Philosophy further says that the unimaginable God enters and pervades a specific known medium, so that you can experience the mediated God. It is just like the unseen electricity entering a seen metallic wire giving you the experience of its existence through the shock.

The philosophy deals with the investigation of the real path to please God etc., Therefore, Philosophy cannot be limited to one single statement, which states that we need not speak about God since God is unimaginable. Some say that the awareness is God and several others say that other imaginable items are God. We have to negate all these proposals by establishing that all these are imaginable items and hence cannot be the unimaginable God. All these aspects are to be dealt in detail and in depth and this makes philosophy a vast subject.

 

[Cliffy]

The philosophy deals with the discussion of the existence of unimaginable item. When you say that God is unknown, there is a danger of establishment of the non-existence of God. Philosophy says that God is unimaginable and is existing. The Philosophy further says that the unimaginable God enters and pervades a specific known medium, so that you can experience the mediated God. It is just like the unseen electricity entering a seen metallic wire giving you the experience of its existence through the shock.

The philosophy deals with the investigation of the real path to please God etc., Therefore, Philosophy cannot be limited to one single statement, which states that we need not speak about God since God is unimaginable. Some say that the awareness is God and several others say that other imaginable items are God. We have to negate all these proposals by establishing that all these are imaginable items and hence cannot be the unimaginable God. All these aspects are to be dealt in detail and in depth and this makes philosophy a vast subject.

Everybody has a connection to the Source (god). We do not need mediators. By saying that you have a special connection to god and that others can benefit from your special connection, you are denying others their own connection. From my many years of studying spirituality I have discerned that anybody who sets themselves up as a teacher or conduit for god is a charlatan and should be severely spanked.

 

[dattaswami]

Why discuss something (god) that is unimaginable & unknowable?

You say you are a holy person. How do you come by that designation? Who declared you a holy person? What makes you a holy person? And what makes you think you have anything to offer to anybody?

An enlightened being does not have to convince anybody the they are enlightened. They don't have to teach anybody anything. Their presence is enough to raise the consciousness of those around them. They are a shining example to the world. They do not brag or elevate themselves above anybody. By giving yourself the title of Lord Datta and saying you have devotees, you are breaking the cardinal rule of enlightenment, which makes you a charlatan. If you have devotees, why are you preaching on a forum in Canada? Perchance are you expecting people to start sending you donations to support "your work"?

.

Everybody has a connection to the Source (god). We do not need mediators. By saying that you have a special connection to god and that others can benefit from your special connection, you are denying others their own connection. From my many years of studying spirituality I have discerned that anybody who sets themselves up as a teacher or conduit for god is a charlatan and should be severely spanked.
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I agree, every body has connection in his own way...

The mind is like the untrained driver. The intelligence is like a trained driver. The intelligence alone can make the determination which leads to correct practice. Therefore, the soul (Yourself) is like the owner. Your body is like the car. The mind is like the steering rod. The untrained driver is like the inert steering rod which is mind. The same mind (awareness) becomes a trained driver due to association of divine knowledge given by the Sadguru who is the correct guide of training. The correct knowledge in driving alone makes the difference between untrained and trained drivers. Therefore, your first responsibility is to search for the Sadguru to obtain the correct trained driver (Buddhi) in your body.

Therefore, Gita starts with the Buddhi Yoga. Gita is starting with Jnana Yoga. Sankara gave the entire credit to Jnana Yoga, which is the correct knowledge in driving that is obtained from Sadguru. Therefore, do not proceed with the mind like an animal or ignorant person in the spiritual journey. In such case you will be exploited by various selfish ignorant people.

 

[Cliffy]

I agree, every body has connection in his own way...

The mind is like the untrained driver. The intelligence is like a trained driver. The intelligence alone can make the determination which leads to correct practice. Therefore, the soul (Yourself) is like the owner. Your body is like the car. The mind is like the steering rod. The untrained driver is like the inert steering rod which is mind. The same mind (awareness) becomes a trained driver due to association of divine knowledge given by the Sadguru who is the correct guide of training. The correct knowledge in driving alone makes the difference between untrained and trained drivers. Therefore, your first responsibility is to search for the Sadguru to obtain the correct trained driver (Buddhi) in your body.

Therefore, Gita starts with the Buddhi Yoga. Gita is starting with Jnana Yoga. Sankara gave the entire credit to Jnana Yoga, which is the correct knowledge in driving that is obtained from Sadguru. Therefore, do not proceed with the mind like an animal or ignorant person in the spiritual journey. In such case you will be exploited by various selfish ignorant people.

Throwing around a bunch of meaningless words doesn't make your case. Everywhere you go on this planet there are different methods to learn how to drive. I don't know if you have been to Canada, but Canadian drivers drive differently than East Indian drivers. In fact, just about every driver in Canada has their own way of driving that varies slightly from everybody else. When chosing a driving teacher, how does one know who is a good teacher and who is only in it for the money?

What kind of person decides to take the spiritual journey? Are they stupid, ignorant or just curious? And after years on the journey, what conclusions do they come to? How does a teacher prepare a student how to make the journey? Do they give them specific instructions on how to pray, what types of disciplines to practice? Do they fill the students head full of useless information about Sadguru, Gita, Sankara and Jnana Yoga? All they are going to have at the end of the day is a head full of stuff. They only need to be shown the road in order to start the journey. The journey does not begin until the student walks away from the teacher. Like the old saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

 

[dattaswami]

Throwing around a bunch of meaningless words doesn't make your case. Everywhere you go on this planet there are different methods to learn how to drive. I don't know if you have been to Canada, but Canadian drivers drive differently than East Indian drivers. In fact, just about every driver in Canada has their own way of driving that varies slightly from everybody else. When chosing a driving teacher, how does one know who is a good teacher and who is only in it for the money?

What kind of person decides to take the spiritual journey? Are they stupid, ignorant or just curious? And after years on the journey, what conclusions do they come to? How does a teacher prepare a student how to make the journey? Do they give them specific instructions on how to pray, what types of disciplines to practice? Do they fill the students head full of useless information about Sadguru, Gita, Sankara and Jnana Yoga? All they are going to have at the end of the day is a head full of stuff. They only need to be shown the road in order to start the journey. The journey does not begin until the student walks away from the teacher. Like the old saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

When you read the scriptures, which are the discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If the original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you are studying a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts and you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations. Suppose you are studying the same course in a college and the lecturer is explaining in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then and there and you will surely get the correct interpretation at the correct moment. The clarification is important at the correct moment because without clarification the latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations and past scriptures. In this light alone, Jesus modified all the Old Testament and gave the correct interpretation as and when people asked Him questions and doubts. If Jesus is not in the present generation, He must be blamed for being partial towards that generation alone. However God is impartial and therefore comes in every generation.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All the divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings. The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. Therefore the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

The number of elementary school students are always many and the number of elementary school teachers are also many. As you rise in the level, the number of students and the number of professors become lesser and lesser. Therefore you should not aspire for a large number of followers. For the direct human incarnation, there will be only a very few deserving devotees of such a top level. But such top devotees are spread here and there all over the world. Therefore there is a necessity for propagating the top most divine knowledge of the top most human incarnation, all over the world. But the number of followers will not be high but will be the very least. Jesus said that His path is very narrow and that only very few people travel on it. Lord Krishna has told in the Gita that only one in millions can perfectly understand Him (Kashchit Mam Vetti…). Therefore the aim of the topmost human incarnation is not to have a large number of followers, since it is impossible. The aim is only to see that the topmost knowledge reaches the few deserving devotees, who are spread all over the world here and there. If you wish to have a large number of followers, then divine knowledge has to be adulterated with ignorance. The naked truth should not be exposed in such a case. Diamonds are always in few in number whereas gravel stones are many.

The lower level devotees and the lower level school teachers should not be criticized. The levels of school, college and university are obviously required due to the existence of human beings in the corresponding levels. Therefore you should not criticize the students in schools and colleges. Today you are a student of a university. But one day you were in the school and in the college. Without the guidance of the school teacher and the college lecturer you could not have entered the university. The direct human incarnation of the Lord is the topmost professor, who has a few post graduate and research level students. God, being the head of the university level in spirituality, the schools and colleges are affiliated to the university and work under His leadership. It is the huge system of divine preachers. The school teachers and the college lecturers are working under the guidance and will of that Professor alone. The system is split to suit the various levels but there is no split in the preachers. The whole system of divine preachers is perfectly working due to the grace of that Supreme Preacher. There is no split in the preachers. Mixing up ignorance with knowledge is inevitable and is done according to the level of the students.

There is only one Supreme Preacher in a generation and He will be covering all the preachers and religions under the concept of Universal Spirituality. Some lower preachers may oppose this concept and it is not the fault of those preachers. Since the students of some lower levels do not agree to this concept, those preachers have to proceed according to their psychology. The supreme preacher knows this fact and only smiles, if any preacher of a lower level opposes this concept. It is by the internal wish of Supreme Preacher only, that preacher opposes Him so that he can have a grip on his students who are of a lower level and do not like this concept. It is a very long journey to transform the entire Universe and make it realize this concept of Universal Spirituality. But one day or other this divine goal will be achieved and the entire world will be like one family with one Divine Father. The various cultures and religions need not disappear. But the innermost single continuous thread of the garland of gems with various colors will be realized by every human being of this universe. Such a state is called as WORLD PEACE.

Please remember that the divine preachers in this entire Universe are not at all split. They appear as if they are split in order to have a grip on their corresponding students, who are really split. All these divine preachers are connected by their innermost souls and are working by the grace of that Supreme preacher, who is the Lord in human form. The difference in the preachers is only apparent to satisfy the different psychologies of the followers. One preacher may criticize another preacher in order to satisfy his followers but all these divine preachers are internally united and are working on the single program of transforming this entire world to realize the Universal Spirituality, which is the Absolute Truth like the one Absolute God.

All the original preachers like Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad etc. are brilliant diamonds and all their followers are like black pieces of charcoal. The diamond and charcoal are made of the same carbon atoms. Similarly the preacher and the follower are human beings. In the diamond there is a regular crystal structure. The charcoal is amorphous, without any crystal structure. Thus the correct logical interpretation makes the scripture shine like a brilliant diamond. The same scripture without regular logical interpretation becomes a black charcoal.

 

[dattaswami]

Narrow Spiritual Path

Narrow Spiritual Path


MATTHEW 7 : 13 AND 14

“Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction and there are many who go in by it”.

Bhagavathgita says “Manushyaanam Sahasreshu…..” which means that millions of people will try to reach God but only one can reach God. This means that the spiritual path is narrow with one or two devotees only who can reach God. So you should not follow the majority as example in spiritual path. Majority goes to Hell. Will you also go to hell? Diamonds are in minority and gravel stones are in majority. In worldly matters you can follow the majority. But in spiritual line there is only one Jesus one Buddha one Sankara etc., If you are in the association of majority you will be polluted by them since they induce the worldly poison through their conversations (Luke 13: 20 & 21). If you are in the association of the Satguru you will be spiritually strengthened by His gospel.

 

[dattaswami]

The line of action of unimaginable GOD

The line of action of unimaginable GOD

The Veda says that God is unimaginable and is beyond words, mind,
intelligence and logic (Yato vacho…, Manasasah…, Yobuddheh
Parataha…, Atarkyah…). The Veda also says that the only information
about the God is that God is unimaginable but exists (Naisha Tarkena…,
Asteetyeva…). The Kathopanishat says that you can know only that God
is unknown so far (Yasyaamatam…). The Gita also says that nobody knows
God (Mamtuvedana…). Such unimaginable God enters an item of the
creation and gets identified with that item so that devoted souls can perceive
it as God. The Veda says that when God enters the medium, God remains
in its own unimaginable form and also becomes imaginable form through
identification with the medium (Satcha Tyatcha Abhavat…). This means
that God becomes imaginable and even perceivable through the process
of identification with the medium, but remains unimaginable also. When
the current, which is a stream of electrons, enters the metallic wire, which
is a chain of crystals, the current identifies with the wire because the wire
touched anywhere gives the shock of current. Yet, the stream of electrons
remains as it is and is not transformed into chain of crystals, even though
the wire is the current for all practical purposes. Therefore, the imaginable
medium charged by God can be treated as the unimaginable God for all
practical purposes by the devotees, who are very anxious to perceive God.


The medium can be energetic body for the sake of the souls existing
in energetic bodies in the upper world. Even the souls of this world enter
energetic bodies while they reach the upper worlds. Such energetic medium
charged by God is the energetic incarnation called as the Father of Heaven
or Lord Narayana or Lord Shiva etc. This energetic incarnation is relevant
to the upper world only. The medium for this world containing human
beings is materialized human body and God charges it to make it human
incarnation, which is relevant to this world. The alive human incarnation is
very important since direct interaction to clarify the doubts is possible with
that only. Hanuman and Gopikas never worshiped the irrelevant
energetic incarnations and even the past human incarnations, but
worshiped only their contemporary alive human incarnations called
as Rama and Krishna respectively. Since, they conquered ego and
jealousy, which cause repulsion between two common media (human
bodies), they could worship the alive human incarnations. Unfortunately,
so far, the messages given by past human incarnations were not vast due
to the absence of developed printing technology.


Thanks to God, for the
developed printing technology so that all the messages in vast quantity
from Bhagavan Shri Sathya Sai Baba are available to clarify any doubt of
any human being. I am also His humble servant ordered by Him to propagate
the spiritual knowledge and all My speeches are in about twelve volumes.
I sincerely feel that Shri Baba spoke all this knowledge through Me to give
name and fame to Me and this can be compared to the silent power of Shri
Rama working through Shri Hanuman. All My personal devotees must be
the devotees of Shri Baba indirectly as the devotees of Hanuman are the
devotees of Shri Rama.

 

[dattaswami]

Salvation Vs ‘Sayujyam’

Salvation Vs ‘Sayujyam’

Salvation is purely related to selfishness. You try to go near to God thinking that you will get the bliss from the blissful God. It is just like approaching the nearness of the fire to achieve heat in the winter. You can become close to God only when God is pleased with you. God is not like the inert fire to be approached at your wish. You must satisfy God in His tests through your sacrifice of anything including life for His sake. When God is satisfied by your true devotion, you will become very close to Him and this is called as ‘Sayujyam’, which is quite opposite to ‘Moksha’ or salvation.

You have to prove yourself as a true devotee through practical sacrifice to attain Sayujyam. Sayujyam is the subject related to God (Nivrutti) and Moksha or salvation is subject related to you (Pravrutti). Hanuman tried to sacrifice His life in searching for Sita and Gopikas sacrificed their lives by jumping into fire after Krishna. Therefore, Nivrutti is full of sacrifice, problems and tensions, which is called as the path of thorns. Salvation or Pravrutti is the path of effort to achieve happiness for the self. The ignorant people due to lack of knowledge and analysis use the word salvation in the spiritual path. When Krishna was suffering with head-ache and the dust of the feet was declared as medicine, no devotee including the wives of Krishna and even Narada came forward fearing for the hell. Everybody wants relief from the torture of the hell even though God is tortured by the head-ache. But, Gopikas came forward to give dust from their feet and were ready to go to hell because their sole aim is only happiness of God and not the self happiness.

Therefore, all the devotees are in the path of salvation and Gopikas and Hanuman alone are in the path of Sayujyam. All the practices of Yoga are only medical exercises and are related to salvation only without any reference to God. But, ignorant people are mislead to think that Yoga is a divine practice related to God. Jesus gave life through crucifixion for the sake of God since it was the program designed by God. He imagined the torture and prayed Lord to avoid it if possible. This prayer indicates the climax of torture. But, finally, He said that the will of God must prevail. Through sacrifice and torture only Jesus became very close to God and sat on the right lap of the Lord. Since there is no liberation of the self from the tension here, this is not salvation but is a case of Sayujyam.

www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

 

[dattaswami]

Fasting can be a natural consequence of absorption in God

Fasting can be a natural consequence of absorption in God


Fasting can be done for a limited time to solve the problem of indigestion, which is a medical remedy. Hurting yourself in Nivrutti is also foolish like fasting for the sake of God. However, hurting yourself required in the divine service is appreciable, which is a sacrifice. Hanuman wanted to commit suicide, when Sita was not found. The logic given by Him was that on hearing the negative report on Sita, Rama will not be alive. Therefore, hurting the self here has logical requirement. If somebody tries to commit suicide without any such requirement for the sake of God, it is a foolish sin. Fasting can be a natural consequence of absorption in God. It is appreciable because the hunger will not be experienced at all by you. Jesus and Sai Baba fasted for sometime and such fasting was not forcible since they were absorbed in God.

Forcible fasting can be detected by the feeling of hunger.

Shankara told a simile supporting His reply. A knife can cut the vegetables but not a stone. The stone is not at all cut and on the other hand the edge of the knife is spoiled (shilaaprayukta kshuraadivat…). The knife is the ignorant rules of the ignorant priests. The vegetables are the general ignorant public. The stone is the scholar knowing the whole truth. If you think that burning a dead body in the backyard of the house is inauspicious, burning the dried grass present in the husk in the backyard of the house is equally inauspicious. The green grass has life and hence, the dried grass is a dead body. The chemical combination of a human body reveals that it contains some inert elements and inert compounds, which are generally found in the materials of the world. Science is the authority as far as Pravrutti is concerned. Shankara is a true scientist in Pravrutti and hence, burnt the dead body like dried grass in the backyard of the home. Science is not related to God and hence, God is irrelevant to Pravrutti as long as none hurts none. The difference between the scientist and Shankara is that the scientist keeps silent about God, whereas the Shankara stressed on the existence of God. Therefore, Nivrutti should not be dragged into Pravrutti as long as the basic principle is not violated.
www.universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

 

[Corduroy]

Re: Salvation Vs ‘Sayujyam’

Why would I want to be close to god in the first place? His club sounds boring.

 

[Said1]

Re: Narrow Spiritual Path

Narrow Spiritual Path


MATTHEW 7 : 13 AND 14

“Enter by the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction and there are many who go in by it”.

Bhagavathgita says “Manushyaanam Sahasreshu…..” which means that millions of people will try to reach God but only one can reach God. This means that the spiritual path is narrow with one or two devotees only who can reach God. So you should not follow the majority as example in spiritual path. Majority goes to Hell. Will you also go to hell? Diamonds are in minority and gravel stones are in majority. In worldly matters you can follow the majority. But in spiritual line there is only one Jesus one Buddha one Sankara etc., If you are in the association of majority you will be polluted by them since they induce the worldly poison through their conversations (Luke 13: 20 & 21). If you are in the association of the Satguru you will be spiritually strengthened by His gospel.

I think youre a bit confused. Anyway, way to go - convoluting my favorite verse!

 

[dattaswami]

Re: Narrow Spiritual Path

I think youre a bit confused. Anyway, way to go - convoluting my favorite verse!

Luke—14:26 to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.

The knowledge is compared to a sword. Bhagavatgita says “Chhitva Jnanasinatmanah”. This means that the ignorance should be cut by the knowledge, which is like a sword. The bonds with wife or husband and children are due to ignorance. Such bonds should break when the Lord in human form competes with them to conduct His test. Lord comes in human form in every human generation to preach and give His direct presence. If the Lord comes in only one human generation, God becomes partial to that human generation because other human generations are not blessed with such opportunity. To see, to touch, to talk and to live with the human incarnation, He comes down as per the prayers of the devotees. The Lord comes to preach and so He will not enter the statues or animals or birds. Veda says “Na tasya pratima asti’’ which means that God will not enter the inert statues.

Gita says “Manusheem tanu masritam” which means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose is to preach the human beings. Gita strongly says that he who worships the inert statues will be born as an inert stone (“Bhootani yanti”). The Christians should be commended on this point who are worshipping the Holy Jesus only, who is the most powerful human incarnation of God. Veda says “Na tat samah” which means that nobody and nothing should be equal to the Lord in human incarnation. One should leave everything and everybody for the sake of the Lord in human form. Only the bond with a new human being can break the bond with the human beings. Such new human being must be very powerful who can be only God in human form.

A new bond existing with formless God or statues cannot break the human bonds. Only the bond with another living being can cut the bond with the living beings. The bond with formless God is impossible. The bond with inert statue has no use. The above statements of Holy Jesus indicate that one should cut the bonds with his family and with the wealth. In Hindu religion also it is said that God (Datta) cuts all the bonds of family and wealth (“Dattam Chinnam”). Even the bond with the body should be cut for the sake of the God. Gita says the same thing as “Mat Gata Pranah”. Holy Jesus says that one has to carry his own cross (death) for the sake of the Lord. This means that one has to invite his own death with his own hands for the sake of God. Holy Jesus did like this as an ideal example for others. This means that you have to cut your bonds not only with your family and wealth but also with your life if necessary.

Hanuman, a top devotee, tore his heart with his own nails for the sake of the Lord and was blessed by the Lord to be immortal. So when the devotee sacrifices his life, his life gets protected forever. The essence of this gospel is that the love is proved only by the practical sacrifice. Veda says “Dhanena Tyage nyke…” which means that sacrifice of money proves the real love.

Money is the fruit of the work. So money is another form of work. If it is inconvenient to sacrifice the money, atleast they should sacrifice the other form of money, which is work for the sake of God. Depending on the money all the family members are attached to you. If money is not there all the family will leave you. You are also giving the money to your family only. Therefore if the bond with money is cut and if the money is sacrificed to God, the family bonds are considered as vanished, even though the family exists externally. The work of God in human form is the propagation of His divine gospel. For doing such divine work the family also stands as an obstacle because most of your energy is diverted for the family only. Therefore you do not have any energy to work for the sake of Lord.

Hence Holy Jesus wants His disciples to leave their families for the sake of God. The propagation work needs both money and work. Generally every body works to maintain his family. In the name of maintenance, several luxuries are introduced, which look like essential needs and thus there is no end for your work to earn the money for the sake of your body and your family. Your blindness increases and you will be putting more and more efforts to work and earn money for the sake of the family bonds. In such a case you can never even see the human form of God. At least you should remove your blindness by the divine knowledge if not the actual bonds. People of very high devotion only can cut the actual bonds. You are giving money to your family but you are giving words to God by prayers and you are giving mind to God through meditation.

[FONT=&quot]You are giving love to your family through your work and money, you are calling the sacrifice of words and sacrifice of mind as love to God and you are fooling the God. Your real love is only with your family and not with the God. Holy Jesus tests your real love to God by these statements. [/FONT]

 

[dattaswami]

Re: Salvation Vs ‘Sayujyam’

Why would I want to be close to god in the first place? His club sounds boring.

If you have to be grateful to your parents, wife and children, how much you should be grateful to God on the same basis of help done to you? Since you have not realized the help of God, you are less grateful to God. You have over estimated the help of your family and you are more grateful to the worldly bonds. God is helping you million times more than your family and His help is continuous for millions of births even though you are not grateful to Him. The help from your family is limited to this birth and if you analyze you will find that business is always hidden in your worldly bonds. Veda says that any soul loves you since you are the means of its happiness (Atmanah kamaya….). Hence, voting for God and rejecting worldly bonds is not violation of justice but it is based on the same very very justice only.

Lack of deep knowledge and analysis makes it to appear as voting for God against justice. But in fact, it is only voting for highest justice and rejecting higher justice. When you reject prostitute before your wife, it is voting to higher justice against lower justice or injustice. Justice and injustice are only comparative terms. If a bachelor loves a prostitute and marries her as social reform, such love to the prostitute becomes justice only. Hence, justice becomes injustice and vice-versa in different contexts. It is only a relative concept. Therefore, establishment of justice means establishment of both Pravrutti and Nivrutti (identifying the present human form of God and selfless service to Him). You can identify the justice at every level through the torchlight of analytical knowledge. Therefore, if you cannot identify justice in Pravrutti, how can you identify justice in Nivrutti? If you cannot vote for your wife against a prostitute, how can you vote for God against your wife?

Hence, analytical knowledge and voting for justice continue without any change in both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. Hence, Lord stressed on establishment of justice only and this covers both Pravrutti and Nivrutti. The high justice becomes injustice before higher justice.

 

[dattaswami]

God tries to oppose the love to Him because it is His personal issue

God tries to oppose the love to Him because it is His personal issue

Love of God is far more compared to the love of family

Today, Justice cannot give a strong competition to God


Shri Baba tried His level best to establish justice of Pravrutti and a good society with love flowing between all the souls of the world. He never projected Nivrutti (identifying the present human form of God and selfless service to Him), which is limited to very few only and God always keeps silent and if necessary even opposes it since it is the issue of love towards Him and becomes His personal issue. Of course, that is of highest value and is eternal.

But today, the souls have come down even from the third step by rejecting justice before injustice. People are rejecting justice and voting for injustice due to lack of true knowledge. You are voting for corruption and rejecting the justified way of earning through hard work. You are loving others who are going to cheat you, rejecting the advise of your family members. When you cannot discriminate the higher and lower planes and truth and false in Pravrutti itself, how can you discriminate God from world in Nivrutti? When you can’t leave corruption and favor justified earning in Pravrutti, how can you sacrifice even your justified earning for God? When you cannot reject false friends and listen the true parents and family members, how can you reject parents and family for God?

In the ancient time, people rejected false love and voted for justified family. They rejected corruption and favored justified earning through hard work. Then God competed with family and justified earning because the love of God is far more compared to the love of family. But today, He need not compete with justice, which is already rejected by injustice in Pravrutti. Today, Justice cannot give a strong competition to God. Only injustice gives strong competition to God.

 

[dattaswami]

If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax

God doesn’t mind even atheism provided the justice is maintained in the society

If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax


Miracles only prove the existence of unimaginable God. Anybody including the demon demonstrating the miracles is in the service of God to establish the existence of God to an atheist. Miracles exist widely with God in human form, devotees and even evil demons. Establishment of existence of original unimaginable God is the fundamental subject that needs wide publicity and hence God has spread miracles in wide range. Once the existence of God is accepted, the atheist becomes theist. This is the foundation step.

Even Shankara spent all His life in the first step only to convert atheistic Purvamimamsakas and Buddhists. Existence of God is needed even to establish Pravrutti through creating fear for hell. If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax in a slow and steady way. Atheists promise to follow justice even without faith in God, but such promise is not having strong basis and it can be violated at any time. God doesn’t mind even atheism provided the justice is maintained in the society. But there is always a possibility of violation of justice if the hell disappears from the mind. When you are provoked to do injustice, at least the concept of hell and God will control you to certain extent. At least the percentage of people committing sins will be reduced. Of course, the concept of God and hell is not bringing the percentage to Zero, but if that concept is totally absent, by one day or other the percentage will be hundred.

For this point only, God comes down to establish His existence and there by create the fear for hell so that at least the percentage of sin and injustice comes to a minimum level, though complete eradication is impossible. God is not at all bothered to establish Himself for the sake of Nivrutti. If the society runs completely on justice, He will not mind even if all the human beings are atheists.

 

[Said1]

Re: If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax

God doesn’t mind even atheism provided the justice is maintained in the society

If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax


Miracles only prove the existence of unimaginable God. Anybody including the demon demonstrating the miracles is in the service of God to establish the existence of God to an atheist. Miracles exist widely with God in human form, devotees and even evil demons. Establishment of existence of original unimaginable God is the fundamental subject that needs wide publicity and hence God has spread miracles in wide range. Once the existence of God is accepted, the atheist becomes theist. This is the foundation step.

Even Shankara spent all His life in the first step only to convert atheistic Purvamimamsakas and Buddhists. Existence of God is needed even to establish Pravrutti through creating fear for hell. If God and hell are not accepted, the sin will grow to climax in a slow and steady way. Atheists promise to follow justice even without faith in God, but such promise is not having strong basis and it can be violated at any time. God doesn’t mind even atheism provided the justice is maintained in the society. But there is always a possibility of violation of justice if the hell disappears from the mind. When you are provoked to do injustice, at least the concept of hell and God will control you to certain extent. At least the percentage of people committing sins will be reduced. Of course, the concept of God and hell is not bringing the percentage to Zero, but if that concept is totally absent, by one day or other the percentage will be hundred.

For this point only, God comes down to establish His existence and there by create the fear for hell so that at least the percentage of sin and injustice comes to a minimum level, though complete eradication is impossible. God is not at all bothered to establish Himself for the sake of Nivrutti. If the society runs completely on justice, He will not mind even if all the human beings are atheists.

Yes. Climax was always a sin in Catholic school. But whatever,