Study: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

[gerryh]

I expect that the death of religion in many Western nations has been helped along by public education. Teaching people to read and write and allowing them to think for themselves is always dangerous when it comes to preserving religious thought.

Really, so better education precludes religious beliefs does it.

 

[damngrumpy]

The fact is that religion was advanced from something that soothed the soul to
controlling the masses this was done centuries ago. yes religion will be around
for centuries more. Some need to believe in something greater than themselves,
others need to believe they can use the faith to force conformity and hold the
power of politics dictating to others, and a great many don't care about that they
want to live their lives as devoted to peace and helping others, and I hope that is
a constant in our world regardless of what faith the hold onto,
I am what you would call a retired Catholic, I saw threw the politics of it long ago
and decided I would think for myself. I don't condemn anyone for believing what
they want as long as they are not aggressive in forcing others to become like them.

The problem is religion is based on ancient texts and has little in common with what
is happening today. Bible thumping, is the order of the day regardless of the faith they
promoting. Religion has become about money and politics and soothing the human
spirit has gone by the wayside, count the money is what its main goal is.

 

[Corduroy]

Some need to believe in something greater than themselves

I don't need to believe in something greater than myself, but I do. There are bacteria out there that could kill me in just a few days! Earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, drought, famine, war, lions, near-Earth asteroids, it's a wonder I've lived this long.

 

[mentalfloss]

I expect the extinction of religion is a natural progression in human thought.

Pretty much. It's the reason why a lot of atheists don't really argue with religious folk, we just 'hope' they eventually turn at some point. Regardless of how long though, some day way into the future, we'll look back and think about how 'funny' these ideas were in retrospect.

It really is inevitable.

 

[MHz]

Religion has become about money and politics and soothing the humanspirit has gone by the wayside, count the money is what its main goal is.

To stamp out Christianity you need to change the original 'story' enough to allow you to apply it to yourself. To get rid of the God of the Bible you need to alter the message. God says He did great events in the past, change that to become the stories in the early parts of the Bible to be stories that carry a moral message, either by themselves or as part of a larger (intentional) deception. Money and the Church leaders was in existence back in the time of Jesus if the Jews had 'money-changer' tables then they handled cash, they would be the ones a Jew went to in those days if they wanted a loan and that is who they would pay back (interest free) in either hard cash or working it off in some form of labor towards the house of Levi or to the Temple staff themselves.
Religion has always been a piggy-back to the will of the 'elite' of any Nation, let alone 5 colonial powers (Putin references this subset of NATO as being the same ones that ran the 'crusades', basically correct as they ran the merchant and war ships that traveled the high-seas. A good PR firm could do wonders with that label)

Just out of curiosity, how does Israel not get mentioned when they funded the importation of 50,000 mercs to fight against the rebels?
Is that the 'sacrifice' to show the locals what will happen if they don't ' peacefully comply'. BTW who has 50,000 mercs on their speed-dial?? including some from of OBL's group apparently lol

If France is to get Lebanon/Egypt then Italy will be given some of North Africa as their 'protected area'. I'm not sure what out cut of the pie will be, probably nothing, ..... again,except absorbing some of the costs but none of the booty....... again lol
At least we know why we need the latest and greatest fighters, spare parts for NATO. I guess we can stop critizing the US throwing $3B/yr at Israel per year as a way to cause instability in the region. Perhaps we can get a discount if we have 'for local use inly' tied into the sales contract, if NATO wants then they rent them by the hour. Why even have an air-force if our gratest enemt is our 'best friend'?

Earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, drought, famine, war, lions, near-Earth asteroids, it's a wonder I've lived this long.

All that before coffee if you visit the right forums. That doesn't mean there aren't some out to make things even worse for 'rest of us'. I'm not sure making the 10 Commandments 'illegal' or 'null&void' if only a select portion of society is allowed to exhibit wanton mayhem on others.

Pretty much. It's the reason why a lot of atheists don't really argue with religious folk, we just 'hope' they eventually turn at some point. Regardless of how long though, some day way into the future, we'll look back and think about how 'funny' these ideas were in retrospect.

It really is inevitable.

If part of some religions (like Christianity) promise eternal life and you want the false teachings of religion to be gone you then consider that you will be worm food for a very long time before religion 'dies'. I doubt you will be 'looking back' or doing anything so how do you justify making a statement that would demand a life much longer than you will have, ......... without religion being true.

 

[mentalfloss]

If part of some religions (like Christianity) promise eternal life and you want the false teachings of religion to be gone you then consider that you will be worm food for a very long time before religion 'dies'. I doubt you will be 'looking back' or doing anything so how do you justify making a statement that would demand a life much longer than you will have, ......... without religion being true.

Our existential evolution is exactly what is wearing away that desire for eternal life. As society progresses, it becomes more and more acceptable to live a finite existence. In fact, it brings a much more fruitful existence to accept death rather than wasting time pining for eternal life.

It's great that you mentioned that, because it's not philosophical debate that will convert people from their religious imprisonment. It's the slow decay of institutionalized traditions that have been passed on from generation to generation that will relieve people. Look at marriage, for instance - a perfectly acceptable tradition. Many people are giving that up because of the already high cost and dwindling significance. That gets the clock turning, and when you're relieved from one tradition, then you start to think about what other traditions you can relieve yourself from.

These sorts of trends will eventually begin to make organized religion feel fruitless and unnecessary.

 

[Avro]

so, in other words, you were trolling. Good to see you admitting it.

No, you were.

I was making light of the report that you think is meaningless.

Then you come in calling me stupid in that I can't read.

Perhaps if you got that massive chip off your shoulder you might make some friends....oh...and lose the pink shirt and big rimmed glasses, girls don't like those.:lol:

 

[petros]

Check out the size of this Hindu!

YouTube - Meet the Super Cow

 

[MHz]

Our existential evolution is exactly what is wearing away that desire for eternal life. As society progresses, it becomes more and more acceptable to live a finite existence. In fact, it brings a much more fruitful existence to accept death rather than wasting time pining for eternal life.

That might be part of a speech the rich give to the poor just before a few 100 million are going to die of starvation right quick. If acceptance of death was so noble without Christanity then why is BigPharma doing such a windfall business trying to keep people alive as long as possible after the body shows signs of natural decay?

It's great that you mentioned that, because it's not philosophical debate that will convert people from their religious imprisonment. It's the slow decay of institutionalized traditions that have been passed on from generation to generation that will relieve people. Look at marriage, for instance - a perfectly acceptable tradition. Many people are giving that up because of the already high cost and dwindling significance. That gets the clock turning, and when you're relieved from one tradition, then you start to think about what other traditions you can relieve yourself from.

So a decay in Christianity would be the decease of false Christians and then being free of that religion would make me automatically act 'against' the way the bolded words suggest in the verse below.

Jas:2:15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas:2:16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Or are you suggesting society would be better off without people who would do more than offer an 'empty word' when they spend much time feeding the needs of their bodies?

These sorts of trends will eventually begin to make organized religion feel fruitless and unnecessary.

Given our history why is the RCC operational today and the rest have a policy of cheering for war yet you do not impound their money. So who is feeding off who?

 

[mentalfloss]

If acceptance of death was so noble without Christanity then why is BigPharma doing such a windfall business trying to keep people alive as long as possible after the body shows signs of natural decay?

Because they can make money off of stupid people who want to look young forever?

So a decay in Christianity would be the decease of false Christians and then being free of that religion would make me automatically act 'against' the way the bolded words suggest in the verse below.

Jas:2:15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas:2:16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Or are you suggesting society would be better off without people who would do more than offer an 'empty word' when they spend much time feeding the needs of their bodies?

I'm suggesting that people should govern their lives as they would actually exist -- which is birth, one life, and then death. As far as it stands right now, you have many people who cower in fear, praying for help instead of doing what they can on their own. This is because they can't accept their solitary existence.

The more they can free themselves of the prison of some religious traditions, the more empowered they will be.

 

[gerryh]

I'm suggesting that people should govern their lives as they would actually exist -- which is birth, one life, and then death. As far as it stands right now, you have many people who cower in fear, praying for help instead of doing what they can on their own. This is because they can't accept their solitary existence.

The more they can free themselves of the prison of some religious traditions, the more empowered they will be.

Interesting, if you were to actually ask those of faith, I would lay odds that you would find that the majority felt lonely before, and that after finding their faith that they no longer feel lonely.

Also, tell me who all these people that "cower in fear" that you are talking about. My entire family is RC and I know many many people that are RC as well as people of other faiths. I'm afraid I don't know that any of them "cower in fear".

And last, I feel pretty damn empowered my self and definitely don't feel like I am in any kind of prison. I would say that you are projecting.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Really, so better education precludes religious beliefs does it.

Not necessarily, but intelligent thought certainly does. In order to accept most religious beliefs the believer has to suspend rational thought. How else could anyone possible accept most of the fundamental tenets of almost every organized religion? Education and the ability to access outside information certainly weakens religious beliefs. That is why in the majority of cases the most religious people are the most poorly educated.

 

[Colpy]

Not necessarily, but intelligent thought certainly does. In order to accept most religious beliefs the believer has to suspend rational thought. How else could anyone possible accept most of the fundamental tenets of almost every organized religion? Education and the ability to access outside information certainly weakens religious beliefs. That is why in the majority of cases the most religious people are the most poorly educated.

You have some support for that contention in your last sentence??

As for the death of religion in Canada.....the article is slanted, and ignores the following facts: (from statscan)

Public religious behaviour, religious affiliation and attendance, have been declining among much of the population, but this captures only one aspect of peoples' religiosity. To get a more complete picture, private religious behaviour such as prayer, meditation, worship and reading of sacred texts on one's own is examined.5 Although some Canadians have little or no connection with religious organizations, the 2002 EDS shows that they do engage in such private religious behaviour either at home or in other locations.
While only about one-third (32%) of adult Canadians attend religious services at least monthly, over one-half (53%) engage in religious activities on their own at least monthly. Eleven percent engage in religious activities on their own a few times a year, while 18% never engage in such activities. (Those who said they have no religious affiliation (17%) were not asked this question on the EDS.)

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2006001/9181-eng.htm

It appears rumors of the death of religion in Canada are greatly exagerated.

 

[mentalfloss]

That's fine, but you can't deny that the trend is a decline.

From your own link:

Between 1985 and 2004, the share of Canadians aged 15 and older reporting no religious affiliation increased by seven percentage points from 12% to 19%.3 In addition, a growing share of Canadians had not attended any religious services in the previous year, even though they reported an affiliation (19% to 25%). Together, the proportion of adult Canadians who either have no religious affiliation or do have a religion but don't attend religious services increased from 31% to 43% over this period.

 

[gerryh]

Not necessarily, but intelligent thought certainly does. In order to accept most religious beliefs the believer has to suspend rational thought. How else could anyone possible accept most of the fundamental tenets of almost every organized religion? Education and the ability to access outside information certainly weakens religious beliefs. That is why in the majority of cases the most religious people are the most poorly educated.

I agree with Colpy, back up the claim. In the mean time I'm roflma at the ignorance displayed in the above. Suspending rational thought eh......:lol:

 

[Durry]

That is why in the majority of cases the most religious people are the most poorly educated.

I would agree with this statement.
I also suspect those with the strongest believe about their religion and/or those who participate in odd ( by western standards) religious practices are probably the most poorly educated.

 

[Corduroy]

I think the rest of this thread and Bar Sinister should do an exchange: he'll back up his claim that the majority of religious people are poorly educated and everyone else can back up their claim for the existence of God. The only stipulation would be that both claims should use the same standard of evidence.

 

[The Old Medic]

you can set your model to show whatever you want it to show. That is exactly what was done in this case. A bunch of atheists set up a program to "prove" what they wanted it to "prove".

 

[mentalfloss]

you can set your model to show whatever you want it to show. That is exactly what was done in this case. A bunch of atheists set up a program to "prove" what they wanted it to "prove".

Well models are definitely the lowest common denominator of science, and the scientists involved did acknowledge that:

"Obviously we don't really believe this is the network structure of a modern society, where each person is influenced equally by all the other people in society," he said.

However, he told BBC News that he thought it was "a suggestive result".

"It's interesting that a fairly simple model captures the data, and if those simple ideas are correct, it suggests where this might be going.

Also keep in mind that the title of the article uses the word "may", not "will".

 

[Johnnny]

I think the rest of this thread and Bar Sinister should do an exchange: he'll back up his claim that the majority of religious people are poorly educated and everyone else can back up their claim for the existence of God. The only stipulation would be that both claims should use the same standard of evidence.

You mean the rest of the thread would back up their claims that the majority of people who are religous arent stupid, right?

-BUT-

If the religous were going to back up their claims that god exists, than Bar sinister would have to back up his claims that god doesnt exist....

Thats what you mean right? Its kinda hard to debate two seperate topics in the same conversation during the same debate right?