A National Shame?

[Joffen]

Here's another story about Canada's health care. It was put out by Fox News or Rush Limbaugh. Maybe it was Glenn Beck?



CTV British Columbia - Canadian health care ranks poor in int'l surveys - CTV News

Canadian health care ranks poor in int'l surveys

Canadians love to brag to Americans about their health care – but a new Maclean's cover story could make them think twice.

Ken MacQueen, Vancouver bureau chief of Maclean's, said he analyzed several international studies to compare health care systems among developed nations – and Canada ranked dead last in a number of categories.

"Our biggest Achilles Heal was definitely the wait time issue, that dragged us down considerably," MacQueen said.

In a 2007 government survey, 40 per cent of respondents reported waiting between one and three months for non-emergency surgery. About 18 per cent reported waiting even longer.

When it came to diagnostic services, 32 per cent reported waiting one to three months while about 10 per cent waited longer.

MacQueen said Canada was also found lacking in quality and effectiveness of care, but fared well in affordability and equity. "The U.S. finished last in both those categories," he said.

But he says Canada still may be coasting on a reputation for quality health care it no longer earns. Our system, which cost an estimated $192-billion in 2010, is "very sub standard" when put next to a number of similar mixed public-private systems in Europe, MacQueen said.

"Anyone who has had to endure a wait in an emergency ward will have already caught on," he said. "It might not cost them money to go in, but it could cost them the better part of a day."

The surveys will appear in a six-part series in Maclean's called "System Critical," beginning this month.

JLM I think the Canadian mood is, is that we want it and we will find ways of paying for it.
The problem is people like our American friend have no idea how this country works and the
will of the people. They don't know other things about the world either. Take Ms Clinton, she
chastised China as a founding member of the UN to do more about human rights in China.
To start with, China was not a founding member of the UN. The China that founded the UN
was indeed Taiwan, not Mainland China at all. In fact The Peoples Republic of China did
not become the legitimate member of the UN until, I think about 1971.
Why is it that so many Americans see the rest of the world through their own eyes, and if it
does not measure up to their standard then the rest of the world is wrong. To be sure there
is a lot to criticize in other parts of the world, but to me the real national shame, is that the
people of America have millions of people who have no health coverage they can afford and
that segment of society lives in conditions often lower than that of the poverty in other parts
of the world.
Even in the midst, of wealth, many of the worlds citizens are condemned by their own ignorance
spurred on by feelings of superiority. I was asked by joffen what he was ill informed about and
my only answer for him is he is ill informed about life in general as it exists outside of his own
narrow view of the planet. Only the slow downward spiral of his own universe will help him to
wake up. Unfortunately we to some degree are on our own private journey, and yes to one
degree or another, we all need a wake up call. Medicare we need and we also need the means
to pay for it, but it must be within the reach of all.

Dude I'm Canadian. I've been living in the U.S. for only four years. So, actually, I have a pretty good idea how your country works.

 

[karrie]

Have you seen a single person on here claim it couldn't use improving? No. But we also don't want to go private. It's not better, no matter how loudly or often you say it is.

 

[Cliffy]

So the Fraser Institute is a right-wing organization in cahoots with the tea party to make Canada's health care system look bad. You need more tinfoil, I think the radio waves are making you stupid.

Now, did I say they were in cahoots with the teabaggers? No. You did. You are the one trying to make the Canadian medical system look bad. I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. I realize that you are looking at our system through teabagger eyes and that would account for your warped vision.

 

[Joffen]

Have you seen a single person on here claim it couldn't use improving? No. But we also don't want to go private. It's not better, no matter how loudly or often you say it is.

But you're convinced that Canada's system is better? I'm not saying you believe that, I wonder if you do.

Now, did I say they were in cahoots with the teabaggers? No. You did. You are the one trying to make the Canadian medical system look bad. I'm saying you don't know what you are talking about. I realize that you are looking at our system through teabagger eyes and that would account for your warped vision.

Canada's system makes itself look bad. Should I say it again? I am a Canadian, born in T.O. I have lived in Canada my whole life until I moved here four years ago. I know more about Canada than you obviously assume.

 

[Cliffy]

But you're convinced that Canada's system is better? I'm not saying you believe that, I wonder if you do.


Canada's system makes itself look bad. Should I say it again? I am a Canadian, born in T.O. I have lived in Canada my whole life until I moved here four years ago. I know more about Canada than you obviously assume.

No, I assume nothing. I can only relate to you by what you say. Two observations: 1 Toronto has a very different opinion of Canada than the rest of Canada & 2. you may have only been in the US for 4 years but it sounds like you have been thoroughly brain washed by Yanky conservatism, but coming from TO, I think you may have had a head start.
(I know that might PO some other Torontonians on here, but that is my Montreal upbringing prejudices coming through - sorry).

 

[Joffen]

No, I assume nothing. I can only relate to you by what you say. Two observations: 1 Toronto has a very different opinion of Canada than the rest of Canada & 2. you may have only been in the US for 4 years but it sounds like you have been thoroughly brain washed by Yanky conservatism, but coming from TO, I think you may have had a head start.
(I know that might PO some other Torontonians on here, but that is my Montreal upbringing prejudices coming through - sorry).

LOL Don't get yourself in trouble too! Haha I'm interested to find out what you think Toronto's opinions about Canada are and how they differ from the rest of Canada. Needless to say, I also lived in Sudbury and Calgary. FWIW My family and I left Toronto when I was 12.

 

[JLM]

Have you seen a single person on here claim it couldn't use improving? No. But we also don't want to go private. It's not better, no matter how loudly or often you say it is.

Six of one half a dozen of the other Karrie. The downside of the public system is too much bureaucracy, of the private system is the fact it has to show a profit.

 

[Joffen]

Six of one half a dozen of the other Karrie. The downside of the public system is too much bureaucracy, of the private system is the fact it has to show a profit.

Also, in a private system people get treated faster and with better technology. I know our system isn't perfect, but I know for a fact that it is better than Canada's.

 

[Cliffy]

LOL Don't get yourself in trouble too! Haha I'm interested to find out what you think Toronto's opinions about Canada are and how they differ from the rest of Canada. Needless to say, I also lived in Sudbury and Calgary. FWIW My family and I left Toronto when I was 12.

It is well known that Torontonians think they are the center of the universe (unlike Yanks who "know" they are) and their shyte don't stink. They also know everything about everything and what is best for everybody. Alberians come in second and differ from Torontonians only in that they think that the smell of shyte and oil on their boots are signs of prosperity.

Also, in a private system people get treated faster and with better technology. I know our system isn't perfect, but I know for a fact that it is better than Canada's.

Most of the planet would disagree.

 

[Joffen]

It is well known that Torontonians think they are the center of the universe (unlike Yanks who "know" they are) and their shyte don't stink. They also know everything about everything and what is best for everybody. Alberians come in second and differ from Torontonians only in that they think that the smell of shyte and oil on their boots are signs of prosperity.


Most of the planet would disagree.

Would it disagree? How so?

 

[Cliffy]

Would it disagree? How so?

Check the ratings of health care in the rest of the world. They have been posted in this forum before but I can't be bothered to look them up. Also, Gopher gave you plenty of examples, and he is an American.

 

[Kreskin]

What does an MRI cost the 40 million uninsured?

 

[Joffen]

Transplant waiting lists and dialysis costs grow as kidney supply lags behind - The Globe and Mail

 

[Chev]

Don't know how old this info is, but I'm certain the prices would not have gone down..
(www.comparemricost.com)
" MRI costs can vary by hundreds and possibly thousands of dollars so it's important that you shop around to get the best price"
Testing Facility Location
Test Type
Average Cost
Orlando, FL

MRI​

$2,229​

Dallas, TX - MRI Testing Facility A

MRI​

$3,624​

Dallas, TX - MRI Testing Facility B

MRI​

$2,172​

San Diego, CA

MRI​

$2,826​

Salt Lake City, UT

MRI​

$1,694​

Detroit, MI

MRI​

$3,461​

New York, NY - MRI Testing Facility A

MRI​

$1,785​

New York, NY - MRI Testing Facility B

MRI​

$2,199​

Raleigh, NC

MRI​

$3,001​

Omaha, NE

MRI​

$2,502​

apologies, the chart didn't turn out the way I thought it would

 

[Kreskin]

Like someone said earlier, you really need to move your family to the US so they get the healthcare they need.

 

[damngrumpy]

Well if you are Canadian and you moved to the US I am extremely happy I hope you stay there.
Just because you are Canadian does not mean you know how our system works, In fact you
are so blind to the reality of life makes it difficult for me to discuss anything with a mental light
weight like you. There are some things that real conservatives don't put much credibility in and
the Fraser Institute is one they are a Canadian Joke. Rush and Glen Beck, oh for that matter
Fox News has lost most of it credibility as well.
I hope you enjoy your stay in America and perhaps you can get to use some of those pay it yourself
services in their medical system. Oh on second thought if something turned out to be serious you
can just come home and use Canada's system.
I don't often take a dislike to people on the this forum and most people know that, oh I argue, true,
but I have respect for the others on here no matter what their opinion, but in your case I am willing
to make an exception. When someone wants to make something like health care more about profit
than health I don't have a hell of a lot of respect for them. Do I think the system could be improved?
Sure there is always room for improvement, but our standard of care for the average person is a
long way ahead of America. Unfortunately even the American Dollar is worth less and less every day.

The only shame on this topic is you.

 

[ironsides]

What does an MRI cost the 40 million uninsured?

What does an average MRI cost? In the USA
MRI cost can range between $400 to $3,500 depending upon which MRI procuedure is performed (example: brain mri vs. shoulder mri) and where you have the MRI test performed. The same exact MRI test can vary by hundreds of dollars from testing facility to testing facility. That's why it is important that you shop around to make sure you're getting the best possible price. By spending a little time and shopping around your local hospitals and imaging centers you can save hundreds if not thousands of dollars. MRI costs are broken down into two areas:

 

[damngrumpy]

An MRI should be part of the health cost in a national system, these managed health care
companies have been ripping people off for years. In Canada we do have a mix of the
private and public sector in many areas and this is not all that bad as long as there is a
national approach where universal coverage is there. Medicare today around the world is
part of a civilized society, and unfortunately our neighbours to the south are subjected to
the same twisted truths the slaves were, in distorting the truth about certain subjects until
they merely dismiss them out of hand. No one should lose their home or go without the
health care they need because of preexisting conditions or a total lack of money for an
operation. I cannot believe how backward some thinking is, however that is America and
far be it for me to tell them how to conduct their business. I am just happy I am not an
American.
They are about to see the chickens coming home to roost. They have saved money on
everything. Now of course the repairs need to be done, and the bills will be coming due,
The only problem is these folks were not richer than they thought and there is no money to
do much of anything. Down there roads, bridges airports and infrastructure is in a badly
needed state of repair. Municipal, State and even the Federal Government's are scrambling
for money. In fact some of these administrations are nearly bankrupt. California and other
States are a mess. This guy comes on our sites and talks about a National Shame in
health care. Good God they have more problems coming down on them than they can handle
and he talks about our health care. Clearly he does not understand the magnitude of the mess
they created going all the way back to Ronnie Reagan, and yes that include Bill Clinton he was
no better. Their is no more left or right in America there is only incompetence and greed

 

[TenPenny]

If you think about it, even private medical insurance such as Blue Cross is a form of socialism - all of the members pay into the plan, whether they use the benefits or not. That should be illegal in the US.

 

[JLM]

Also, in a private system people get treated faster and with better technology. I know our system isn't perfect, but I know for a fact that it is better than Canada's.

Not necessarily true (you'll never win any debate with sweeping statements) The quality of treatment you get depends almost solely on the individuals (doctors, nurses, technicians) providing the treatment, people have varying standards of ethics and meticulousness which has very little to do with who is doing the paper work upstairs. Actually as much as they like to complain, professionals are probably higher paid under the public system than the private system, in that under the public system they know they are going to be paid- under the private they absorb a certain amount of bad debt as they can not turn sick people away.

Joffen- I don't think you have enough information to compare the two systems properly and I know I haven't. Twenty years ago in Reno my wife had a bit of a minor emergency that was treated in a prompt and excellent fashion under our travel insurance and that is all I have to say about the American system. Yes we do have wait times for procedures in Canada, but by the same token the most urgent go the front of the line so very very few people are actually put in danger. If you go to the E.R. with a hang nail, Yes you could have a long wait (personally I'd hope they'd refuse to treat you) I personally think we should have both systems, private and public and then people could have their choice, the ones with money could jump to the private hence shortening the line in the public and everyone would be treated faster- but the problem is the public system depends on volume and if the volume is reduced radically it's either going to fail or it will have to succeed with a lot fewer bureaucrats. :smile: