Independence for Quebec

[coldstream]

A recent poll showed that most Quebecers considered the issue of Sovereignty 'settled'. The movement has none of the passion for independence of the 60s, or even the type of hybrid nationalism that would have Quebec keep all of the advantages of Canadian citizenship with none of the responsibilities that pervaded the Referendum debates, and completely sabatoged the romantic notion of nationhood. I think its a dead issue. Quebec is now an partner, equal and nondistinctive as to privilege with other provinces, and Quebecers are, by their own choice, first and formost Canadians.

 

[petros]

Just like our coat of arms expresses, the French unicorn will always be in chains by the crown and lion which would be fine by me if it didn't personally cost me thousands of dollars a year in taxes.

 

[Aliksander]

Language is the backbone of culture. Give me any country with a significant separation movement in it, and good chances are they speak a different language than the majority. If not, it's probably a religious issue.

Of course language is not the only issue at hand, but I think it's one of the most fundamental. If Quebecers for some reason had lost the French language after the British Conquest, the cultural differences between Quebec and the rest of Canada would be much weaker.

So in my opinion, if Canada attempts to stop Quebec from protecting its language, than you have a very strong case for separation.

Language is not the backbone of a culture. History is. Regardless of whatever language is preferred in any province of Canada, there must still be a strong, patriotic bond among all provinces. In America, Spanish is quickly becoming the second language, and yet, the Latinos and Mexicans living within America still consider themselves to be American, regardless of whatever language is there preference. Furthermore, the Spanish speaking populations of America are a lot less likely to identify with Spanish culture just because they share a language, just as Quebecers are not willing to be identified as being "French", per se. The development of Canada concurrent to the influence of other nations has yielded a unique people that are neither French, nor British, and one must remember that. In this case directly, I believe that the cultural evolution of Quebec has taken hold independent from that of the rest of Canada, thereby producing a new faction of people with their own lifestyles, needs, and culture.

Try telling any American that they are just British people with different accents. Even the slightest cultural divergence, developing over time, can warrant separation, and there is proof of this all over the globe.

 

[Liberalman]

Leave the Quebecers as they are they will eventually be content because our great Conservative Prime Minister has welcomed them into Canada by declaring to all that Quebec is a nation within a nation.

 

[Aliksander]

Leave the Quebecers as they are they will eventually be content because our great Conservative Prime Minister has welcomed them into Canada by declaring to all that Quebec is a nation within a nation.

I'm not sure if that even makes sense. Quebec is not a nation unless it has absolute rule over itself, which it does not.

 

[Aliksander]

Just like our coat of arms expresses, the French unicorn will always be in chains by the crown and lion which would be fine by me if it didn't personally cost me thousands of dollars a year in taxes.

I would personally be happy to see a Quebec that is bound by neither of those two governments.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I wish Quebec would stop talking about it and just do it. Also, it's not English Canada that you have to worry about diluting your culture, immigration will do that.

 

[Machjo]

There is no reason why it could not include a shared currency. Quebec's proximity to America and the rest of Canada demands that there is some degree of compatibility between all three economies. We have seen models of shared currency among nations with varying levels of success, and it would be an issue that would have to be addressed in later stages of the movement. Personally, I believe that the entire world is going in the direction of a unified, inter-dependent economy. In many ways, we're already there, and a shared currency makes all of the sense in the world, but it is an issue that is ultimately up to the people.

This presents another problem. On the one hand, Quebec wants to separate, yet on the other it recognizes its need to maintain healthy friendships around the world and especially North America if it wishes to grow and prosper.

I'll take the issue of languages in Europe for a moment to illustrate my point.

A 1993 decree of the Italian Ministry of Public Instruction argued that if the Italian school system did not reform its second-language instruction policy soon, that English-language hegemony would soon cause irreparable damage to the integrity of the Italian language, possibly within a few generations at most. This in spite of the fact that Italy is an independent sovereign state surrounded by countries speaking various languages.

In 2005, the Grin Report, presented to the French government, made a similar conclusion concerning France's second-language education policy.

And yet both of those countries have far less anglocentric a policy than Quebec's, which essentially makes English compulsory in all schools across the province.

I don't see how the threat of English will disappear from Quebec just because of independence when France and Italy are struggling with the same issue and they're independent already.

If we consider that it is in fact totally in Quebec's hands to decide whether to make English compulsory in its education system or not (in fact a few provinces give numerous language options already besides French, with French being but one among multiple languages to choose from), and conclude that has therefore chosen not to execize this freedom, we can only conclude that the obstacles to weakening the grip of the English language in Quebec are beyond just legal, but have to do rather with Quebec genuinely not being able to see the options before it and so turn to sovereignty as a supposed solution.

Yet, if Quebec is already not exercising all the legal means at its disposal to weaken the grip of the English language in its province, why should we believe things would be any different if Quebec were sovereign?

 

[Liberalman]

I'm not sure if that even makes sense. Quebec is not a nation unless it has absolute rule over itself, which it does not.

Every province is a nation with in a nation because they all have certain powers the the national government has to negotiate

 

[Machjo]

We should consider too that if Quebec separates, chances are the whole nations would collapse owing to unresolved Treaty issues yet unsettled in the courts. As soon as Quebec decides to leave, the First Nations will certainly be there to claim their rightful claims. But if Quebec grants them, then before you know it, that will simply increase the pressure across Canada. It's clearly in English Canada's and Quebec's best interests to keep the country united, since if Quebec separates, there will be neither a Quebec nor a Canada to talk about.

Welcome to Oddawa. Kwe.

 

[Machjo]

Every province is a nation with in a nation because they all have certain powers the the national government has to negotiate

Wrong. A nation refers to a people. No Ontarian considers the residents of Ontario as a distinct ethnic group known as Ontarians. Generality speaking, they'd consider Ontario to be a jurisdictional.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Greetings friends,


Option 2. Quebec peacefully but assertively separates itself from its parent nation and assumes control over its own internal struggles. Regardless of the outcome, Quebec will have absolute control over itself with authority invested in its own people, thereby limiting the possibility of economic and legislative blunder at the fault of cultural misunderstanding.


The people of Quebec need to ask themselves how hard they are willing to work at achieving their goals. On the surface, revolution takes the form of territorial dispute, governmental reform, and economic restructure, but at its core, true revolution is always about one thing. The people. If the people of Quebec do not feel that Canada can help them cultivate the greatness inside of them, then one must question which they treasure more: Their life as they know it, or the potential of what they can become.

If they choose option two, they will likely want the flow of tax dollars to continue flowing there in profuse amounts unabated which I would be against. Quebec can't separate. The status quo is okay.

 

[Liberalman]

Wrong. A nation refers to a people. No Ontarian considers the residents of Ontario as a distinct ethnic group known as Ontarians. Generality speaking, they'd consider Ontario to be a jurisdictional.

When was the last time you talked to an Ontarioan

Alberta is a good example because they own their oil resource and will not sell it to the rest of Canada for cheaper than the world price.

We have to remember that the a lot of provinces joined confederation way after 1867 so they kept a lot of their powers.

 

[Machjo]

When was the last time you talked to an Ontarioan

I am an "Ontarioan". Born in Ottawa, lived across Canada and abroad, but now back in Ottawa. And most of my family on my mother's side lives in South-Eastern Ontario and South-Western Quebec.

And I've never felt as an Ontarian as an ethnic group, but rather as an administrative distinction and nothing more.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I am an "Ontarioan". Born in Ottawa.

Nah, you're pretty much a Quebecker. :smile:

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Just like our coat of arms expresses, the French unicorn will always be in chains by the crown and lion which would be fine by me if it didn't personally cost me thousands of dollars a year in taxes.

Looks like the third hundred years war between the French and the English. the first was with Joan of Arc, the second ended in 1759-63 with the battle for North America, and the third is in Canada. More of a conflict that a war right now.

 

[talloola]

quebec is no different than any other province, and as
much as 'we', here in B.C., bring up that question, should
B.C. separate, it is ridiculous, and it is also, for
Quebec.
Get over yourselves, just as we have to, and make it work
for all of us together, it is our strength to be 'one', and
it has to stay that way.

problems can be solved, and the people of quebec are
canadians, just as I am.

 

[Machjo]

Nah, you're pretty much a Quebecker. :smile:

Ottawa's in Quebec?

 

[s_lone]

Language is not the backbone of a culture. History is.

And history and language are not related?

Regardless of whatever language is preferred in any province of Canada, there must still be a strong, patriotic bond among all provinces. In America, Spanish is quickly becoming the second language, and yet, the Latinos and Mexicans living within America still consider themselves to be American, regardless of whatever language is there preference. Furthermore, the Spanish speaking populations of America are a lot less likely to identify with Spanish culture just because they share a language, just as Quebecers are not willing to be identified as being "French", per se.

Whoever one identifies to politically, the language you speak still has a fundamental impact on your cultural identity. One can barely be part of the hispanic culture if one doesn't speak Spanish. This is what I mean when I say language is the backbone of culture.

The development of Canada concurrent to the influence of other nations has yielded a unique people that are neither French, nor British, and one must remember that. In this case directly, I believe that the cultural evolution of Quebec has taken hold independent from that of the rest of Canada, thereby producing a new faction of people with their own lifestyles, needs, and culture.

As a Quebecer, I can only agree that their are significant cultural differences between Quebec and the ROC. But it's all relative, from the point of view of a Chinese person, the only difference might as well be language.

Try telling any American that they are just British people with different accents. Even the slightest cultural divergence, developing over time, can warrant separation, and there is proof of this all over the globe.

Of course Americans and British are different. But they are also very much alike in many ways. It all depends on the point of view. They are cultural cousins in the same way that Quebecers are cultural cousins of the French.

Nothing is black and white when it comes to this. On one hand, we Quebecers are much closer to English Canadians in terms of culture because of our shared history and territory. But in another way, we are closer to the French because of our common background.

 

[Aliksander]

This presents another problem. On the one hand, Quebec wants to separate, yet on the other it recognizes its need to maintain healthy friendships around the world and especially North America if it wishes to grow and prosper.

I'll take the issue of languages in Europe for a moment to illustrate my point.

A 1993 decree of the Italian Ministry of Public Instruction argued that if the Italian school system did not reform its second-language instruction policy soon, that English-language hegemony would soon cause irreparable damage to the integrity of the Italian language, possibly within a few generations at most. This in spite of the fact that Italy is an independent sovereign state surrounded by countries speaking various languages.

In 2005, the Grin Report, presented to the French government, made a similar conclusion concerning France's second-language education policy.

And yet both of those countries have far less anglocentric a policy than Quebec's, which essentially makes English compulsory in all schools across the province.

I don't see how the threat of English will disappear from Quebec just because of independence when France and Italy are struggling with the same issue and they're independent already.

If we consider that it is in fact totally in Quebec's hands to decide whether to make English compulsory in its education system or not (in fact a few provinces give numerous language options already besides French, with French being but one among multiple languages to choose from), and conclude that has therefore chosen not to execize this freedom, we can only conclude that the obstacles to weakening the grip of the English language in Quebec are beyond just legal, but have to do rather with Quebec genuinely not being able to see the options before it and so turn to sovereignty as a supposed solution.

Yet, if Quebec is already not exercising all the legal means at its disposal to weaken the grip of the English language in its province, why should we believe things would be any different if Quebec were sovereign?

There seems to be a misunderstanding rather prevalent regarding the topic of language. I have tried to illustrate my opinions regarding the independence movement without addressing language specifically, because, personally, I do not think it is a serious issue. Conforming to other languages has been a harsh reality that humanity has had to deal with since the dawn of communication, and it is not my intention to stage a revolution, or even condone the issue of sovereignty based on that issue alone. I consider myself to be a progressive person, and I do believe that if Quebec is going to have a place in the global economy, then it will have to conform to the pressures of communicating in languages other than French. I am not an ethnic purist, and I do not believe that immigration will effect any harm on Quebec, quite the contrary, in fact. A nation's culture is the representation of many years of development and natural evolution, stemming both from within and external to the borders of the nation. Languages change over time, and people with them. This cannot be changed, nor should it be. The issue of independence goes far deeper than the retention of French as the official language, but at the end of the day, that seems to be the only issue that is communicated. (ironically) Both Canada and Quebec alike stand to benefit from a much happier constituency, and even if that is the only thing that independence can accomplish, it is MORE than worth it.