Vatican/Holy See, State, or not?

[gerryh]

And people in general (Catholic and non-Catholic) have no legitimate axe to grind with the RCC?

Grind your axe, in the proper venue. The panel would NOT be the proper venue.

 

[CDNBear]

Really, I can't think of better people to have investigating and holding council on the matter. They are the ones whose children are growing up in this church. They are the ones who are paying the wages, so to speak. They are the ones being told how to live by these men.

Bingo!!!

They deserve the chance to decide how things are going to be. Not outsiders. Not some talking head. The leity deserve a voice in their own church Bear.

I never said they didn't. But if we seek balance in the need for clarity and justice, how can we view people who see the Pope as completely infallible by position and title. As impartial?

Besides that, I have no objections to them being part of the investigative process. But upon the first whiff of impropriety, the authorities should be called in. And here's where I will divest myself from the rest of the 'talking heads'. I fully endorse the participation of the Lay People in the process. I would be completely hypocritical if I didn't. As my own people have petitioned for and received such consideration in dealing with groups like the CAS and the local Authorities.

I actually believe that you could not have a fair and balanced investigation, without their equal participation.

Obviously not Karrie. The people whose children are directly effected by this scandal should have no say in how it is handled. It should be complete outsiders, non believers, ones with an agenda against the Church perhaps?

You're being unreasonable Gh.

It's all crap, no matter what His Holiness does, it will not be good enough for those that have an axe to grind with the RCC.

Geezus Gh, what would make you happy? I turn a blind eye to the whole affair? I roll over and play dead? Of all the people that have participated in these discussions, I have tried to be fair, objective and positive, in seeking an out come that serves both Justice and Catholics.

I have no axe to grind, like my ancestors did before me, I buried it.

 

[AnnaG]

Grind your axe, in the proper venue. The panel would NOT be the proper venue.

I agree, but pedophilia is a human thing, not just a Catholic thing. But then if I was Pope and someone told me a priest had been diddling kids, I'd notify the cops, secrecy edict or not.

 

[gerryh]

Bingo!!!

:roll: ya bingo, The Catholic congregations are being told how they should live their lives. It is they that should have the loudest say when their leaders play hypocrite and live by a different standard.

I never said they didn't. But if we seek balance in the need for clarity and justice, how can we view people who see the Pope as completely infallible by position and title. As impartial?

In your own words...."I don't care".... that is the fact of the Pope in the RCC.

Besides that, I have no objections to them being part of the investigative process. But upon the first whiff of impropriety, the authorities should be called in. And here's where I will divest myself from the rest of the 'talking heads'. I fully endorse the participation of the Lay People in the process. I would be completely hypocritical if I didn't. As my own people have petitioned for and received such consideration in dealing with groups like the CAS and the local Authorities.

Which is what the Lay panel is for. To ensure that false allegations are not being thrown around to further an agenda. If there appears to be any truth to the allegations then it is forwarded to the authorities. PLUS, the person accused is relieved of his or her duties until the accusations are sorted out. NOT shuffled off to another parish or diocese. What the hell more do you want?

You're being unreasonable Gh.

I'm calling it like I see it at this time.

I have no axe to grind, like my ancestors did before me, I buried it.

Go back in this thread and reread your words Bear.

I agree, but pedophilia is a human thing, not just a Catholic thing. But then if I was Pope and someone told me a priest had been diddling kids, I'd notify the cops, secrecy edict or not.

Which is what the new canonical edicts are saying is to be done.

 

[CDNBear]

:roll: ya bingo, The Catholic congregations are being told how they should live their lives.

BS.

It is they that should have the loudest say when their leaders play hypocrite and live by a different standard.

I agree, I hear two, in the background, I hear crickets. Oh wait, what's that other sound? Ohhh, that's the sound of the collective leadership dragging its feet...:roll:

In your own words...."I don't care".... that is the fact of the Pope in the RCC.

Two monumentally different contexts. But at least one isn't protecting a possible criminal from facing the authorities. I think I like my high ground on that one thanx.

Which is what the Lay panel is for. To ensure that false allegations are not being thrown around to further an agenda.

Geeze Gh, why are schools given the same leeway? Oh wait, they aren't, if they fail to inform the authorities of the mere whiff of it, they can and will be charged.

If there appears to be any truth to the allegations then it is forwarded to the authorities.

If somebody else's agenda isn't being protected...

PLUS, the person accused is relieved of his or her duties until the accusations are sorted out. NOT shuffled off to another parish or diocese. What the hell more do you want?

Complete impartiality. So long as there is not a single member of non Catholic Law Enforcement on the panel. It is not impartial IMHO.

I'm calling it like I see it at this time.

Fair enough, I'll be your whipping boy, but I fully believe you're whipping the wrong boy.

Go back in this thread and reread your words Bear.

No need, I know where I stand, I know the lengths I've gone to, to remain objective.

 

[AnnaG]

Which is what the new canonical edicts are saying is to be done.

But it should have been done from the getgo.

 

[karrie]

I gave this some thought over the lunch hour, because being one of the lay people in a Canadian Catholic church, I really don't see anything wrong with having the lay people overseeing what the policies are, and ensuring that the diocese is doing things above board. But then I realized that while that works well in the US, and would likely work well in Canada, and much of Europe, the notion falls flat when you get into less educated countries.

I guess I'm still stuck at not having a proper workable solution to ensuring there are no future problems.

 

[gerryh]

But it should have been done from the getgo.

No argument from me there, but the complaint seems to be that the Church is not doing anything still. This is not true....... and to tell you the truth, your response is pretty damn close to what I expected to start seeing.."too little too late"... in other words, nothing will really be good enough for the detractors of the Catholic Church.

 

[AnnaG]

No argument from me there, but the complaint seems to be that the Church is not doing anything still. This is not true....... and to tell you the truth, your response is pretty damn close to what I expected to start seeing.."too little too late"... in other words, nothing will really be good enough for the detractors of the Catholic Church.

That's only your impression. I didn't say that nor did I even mean it. What I said and meant is that the reports of pedophilia should have been handed to the cops from the beginning. Twist that any way you want to.
And actually, I think it's better late than never.