OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM – Does It Need Fixing?

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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We all likely have an opinion on our beloved (?) Health Care System, and it appears to be rising up in the public eye as the U.S. considers it's next move on the subject.


What's your opinion on our system? Is it good? Not so good? Need improvement? Does anyone have any ideas on what should be done?
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Oshawa
Yes.

The Fench system is very effective with lot's of private involvement and everyone is protected under one umbrella.

In fact most european countries other than the UK have figured out how to do it right.
 

L Gilbert

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Nov 30, 2006
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When the World Health Organisation assesses various countries concerning their healthcare systems and declares Canada is 30th out of 190 when we used to be in the top 5, yes, I'd say something needs fixing. Some of those countries with a higher ranking than us are considered to be 3rd world, too.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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Well countryboy, you are from BC. You have to know that Campbell has done just about all he can to severely slow down health care in BC even if he has not quite destroyed it. I think given his current place of power, he would receive the best of care should he require it. I truly hope that once he is once again a "regular joe" like the rest of us, his name goes to the bottomof the list of all services he has cut. Health care is mostly the responsibility of each province. He created a lack of wellness by closing hospitals and cutting things like assistance with physio, optomitrists, podiatrists, chiropractors and the like. So - yes - we need some improvement here in BC. I hope the next PM (because there isn't a chance in hell this man is going to get elected again) will view things differently and re-instate some of those things so the people who really need these services can afford them.
It's my understanding that the Teachers are now having more cutbacks to their medical coverage. With the exception of politicians, if you are employed by gov't in BC, chances are you are going to get screwed over.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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I recall that - during one of our many recent federal election campaigns, both Jack Layton and Paul Martin (OK, not that recent) kept telling us that they would fight tooth and nail to protect our wonderful health care system. Were they wrong on their assessment of the system?

It seems that it's been a "hallowed ground" issue for some, and it's a shame because we wasted a lot of time protecting it from the "man with the evil eyes" (Harper, who was said to be planning to dismantle it all at the time) instead of having some intelligent discussion on how it might be improved.

The rhetoric is always way beyond stupid when the subject even comes up for discussion. Those supposedly defending it do it (and us) more harm by carrying on like a bunch of coyotes fightin' over a deer carcass. Jeez...
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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Well countryboy, you are from BC. You have to know that Campbell has done just about all he can to severely slow down health care in BC even if he has not quite destroyed it. I think given his current place of power, he would receive the best of care should he require it. I truly hope that once he is once again a "regular joe" like the rest of us, his name goes to the bottomof the list of all services he has cut. Health care is mostly the responsibility of each province. He created a lack of wellness by closing hospitals and cutting things like assistance with physio, optomitrists, podiatrists, chiropractors and the like. So - yes - we need some improvement here in BC. I hope the next PM (because there isn't a chance in hell this man is going to get elected again) will view things differently and re-instate some of those things so the people who really need these services can afford them.
It's my understanding that the Teachers are now having more cutbacks to their medical coverage. With the exception of politicians, if you are employed by gov't in BC, chances are you are going to get screwed over.
Healthcare started really going down the toilet when Martin went draconian and cut back healthcare transfers to the provinces. Basically the rug was pulled out from under the provinces. They were not prepared to handle the sudden burden. And that was long before Campbull got his mitts on BC.
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
27,702
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Healthcare started really going down the toilet when Martin went draconian and cut back healthcare transfers to the provinces. Basically the rug was pulled out from under the provinces. They were not prepared to handle the sudden burden. And that was long before Campbull got his mitts on BC.

i THINK PRETTY MUCH 10 OUT OF 10 PROVINCES ARE EXPERIENCING DIFFICULTIES FUNDING HEALTHCARE.Sorry cap locks.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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BC
Healthcare started really going down the toilet when Martin went draconian and cut back healthcare transfers to the provinces. Basically the rug was pulled out from under the provinces. They were not prepared to handle the sudden burden. And that was long before Campbull got his mitts on BC.

You are right on about what Martin did. But of course, the Liberals always talk about what a great job he did of balancing the budget, saving the country, and all that crap. Or at least they did for a few years.

No wonder politicians have a reputation for lying...many of them work very hard to deserve it. Honestly! :lol:
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Yeah, under Chretien the feds decided that the way to bring the deficit under control was to gut health care funding.

Here in NB, McKenna had the firm belief that the reason health care costs too much is that we have too many GPs. Which is why lots of people don't have family doctors any more.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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i THINK PRETTY MUCH 10 OUT OF 10 PROVINCES ARE EXPERIENCING DIFFICULTIES FUNDING HEALTHCARE.Sorry cap locks.
I think so, too.
We have to remember it takes gov't cogs years and decades to act. So recovery from Martin's forking stupidity will take a while yet. Especially when our populations keep increasing and the Baby Boomers start showing up needing healthcare as they age.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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BC
Well countryboy, you are from BC. You have to know that Campbell has done just about all he can to severely slow down health care in BC even if he has not quite destroyed it. I think given his current place of power, he would receive the best of care should he require it. I truly hope that once he is once again a "regular joe" like the rest of us, his name goes to the bottomof the list of all services he has cut. Health care is mostly the responsibility of each province. He created a lack of wellness by closing hospitals and cutting things like assistance with physio, optomitrists, podiatrists, chiropractors and the like. So - yes - we need some improvement here in BC. I hope the next PM (because there isn't a chance in hell this man is going to get elected again) will view things differently and re-instate some of those things so the people who really need these services can afford them.
It's my understanding that the Teachers are now having more cutbacks to their medical coverage. With the exception of politicians, if you are employed by gov't in BC, chances are you are going to get screwed over.

Nicely summed up, and right on the money as far as I'm concerned.

Y'know, there are actually some people in BC who think our health care system is great. True! I've talked with many of them personally. And I am glad for them that they, or someone close to them, has had good experience within the system.

However, I suspect that some of the supporters of the system talk nicely about it because they are afraid that if they start to criticize it too much, a movement toward privatized health care will begin to take root.

It's too bad the discussions become so politicized, because it gets in the way of identifying what's wrong with the system and what kinds of improvements could/should be done. It always degenerates into an "all or nothing", emotionally-charged, "go nowhere" battle.

And that's very sad for all of us.
 

weaselwords

Electoral Member
Nov 10, 2009
518
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Health care in Ontario is fine, services maybe slower than optimum, saundry non-physician services may no longer be covered & experimental cures maybe few and far between but on the day to day it works & works well.
The only time you hear of difficulties are from special interests, orphan diasease cures & funding issues again for the special interests.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
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I think so, too.
We have to remember it takes gov't cogs years and decades to act. So recovery from Martin's forking stupidity will take a while yet. Especially when our populations keep increasing and the Baby Boomers start showing up needing healthcare as they age.

Oh, I think the recovery will never take place until the fundamentals of the system are reviewed and changes are made to address what's wrong. Martin's little "numbers game" (offloading costs from one budget to another...like a shell game) caused far more damage than most people can imagine. By splitting up the numbers like that, he caused all kinds of immediate reactions in 10 different provinces. Add to that the fact that the game is constantly changing (you mentioned the boomers and that's only one change), and you end up with...well, I'd have to call it a real mess. Or 10 messes. (Not sure of the situation in the Territories...federal responsibility?).

So yes, I credit Martin and that government of the day with pulling out one of foundation blocks and causing some crumbling of the system to begin. Very short-sighted, and not very smart of them to pull such a trick on the citizens of Canada.

Unfortunately, it's typical of politics. Make it "look good" while making it "be good" is a secondary priority. At best.
 

countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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Health care in Ontario is fine, services maybe slower than optimum, saundry non-physician services may no longer be covered & experimental cures maybe few and far between but on the day to day it works & works well.
The only time you hear of difficulties are from special interests, orphan diasease cures & funding issues again for the special interests.

Is that true thoughout all of Ontario? (Just asking)

One of the big issues in BC is the way health care services are distributed throughout the province (outside the large centres). There are places where emergency rooms have been closed or reduced to a few hours per week, but that's just one issue...there are many. All looks good on paper but think about it - does a part time emergency make any sense to anyone? How the hell do you plan an emergency to fit a schedule like that? It's a completely bizarre and illogical thing to do, but we have it.

That's why I think the fundamentals of the system have to be reviewed from the bottom up...what are the needs, how should they be addressed, prioritized, etc. Lots of real work needs to be done, instead of the slapdash, "make it look good" approach. :angryfire:
 
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L Gilbert

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Is that true thoughout all of Ontario? (Just asking)

One of the big issues in BC is the way health care services are distributed throughout the province (outside the large centres). There are places where emergency rooms have been closed or reduced to a few hours per week, but that's just one issue...there are many. All looks good on paper but think about it - does a part time emergency make any sense to anyone? How the hell do you plan an emergency to fit a schedule like that? It's a completely bizarre and illogical thing to do, but we have it.

That's why I think the fundamentals of the system have to be reviewed from the bottom up...what are the needs, how should they be addressed, prioritized, etc. Lots of real work needs to be done, instead of the slapdash, "make it look good" approach. :angryfire:
Good post.
I'd be interested to see if ON has that good of a system everywhere inside its borders, too.
 

weaselwords

Electoral Member
Nov 10, 2009
518
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salisbury's tavern
There is inequities in the system as you suggest the metropolitan areas are well covered & it becomes more more of an issue in farming & northern areas. The loudest voice I hear from those areas is the lack of family doctors available and their exodus to the cities.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
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countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
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There is inequities in the system as you suggest the metropolitan areas are well covered & it becomes more more of an issue in farming & northern areas. The loudest voice I hear from those areas is the lack of family doctors available and their exodus to the cities.

That's one. The travel times for some very basic treatments is another very huge problem for people outside the big cities. And the emergency room problem. And many more...
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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Yeah, under Chretien the feds decided that the way to bring the deficit under control was to gut health care funding.

Here in NB, McKenna had the firm belief that the reason health care costs too much is that we have too many GPs. Which is why lots of people don't have family doctors any more.

Tenpenny, Chrétien decided that the way to bring deficit under control was to gut all the spending, including health care.

A healthy, common sense view, conservatives would do well to try to adopt it (rather than cut taxes and borrow heavily as they have been doing for the past several decades, both here and in USA).

Cutting the spending, balancing the budget is not an easy thing to do. If it was easy, even the conservatives would have done it. Cutting spending causes hardship, it makes people mad. But it had to be done.

Indeed, Liberals got plenty of flak from just about everybody. They were criticized for gutting health care, for gutting military, for robbing the EI program, for gutting the social services and so on. When they get everybody mad at them that tells me that they were doing the right thing. But the fact remains, while Bush was running astronomical deficits in USA ( a typical Conservative way of running the economy), Liberals were running healthy surpluses here in Canada.

So sure liberals cut the health care transfer to the provinces, it was the right thing to do. The deficit monster had to be slain at all costs ( a concept totally alien to the Conservatives).
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
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There is inequities in the system as you suggest the metropolitan areas are well covered & it becomes more more of an issue in farming & northern areas. The loudest voice I hear from those areas is the lack of family doctors available and their exodus to the cities.

Here it was really the short sightedness of all the provinces in the 90s. They cut the seats in medical schools and they also cut the residencies in order to keep costs down. Both Ontario Medical Association and Canadian Medical Association warned them about the impending doctor shortage, but the provinces turned a blind eye to that.

Some of the doctor shortage is due to the inevitable but necessary cutbacks needed to balance the budget, some is due to the short sightedness of the governing politicians.