A fifth of European Union will be Muslim by 2050

[Extrafire]

In 2050 our present view of the world will be laughable to most, just like how we look back at other generations. Think back to 1969 and if this was a story headline - "By 2009 nearly every household will have a device to access pornography at anytime of the day". I'm sure most adults would've fallen off their chairs, either in fright or laughter.

Indeed. I recall way back then (not sure but I think it was the '70's) a prediction that every household would have a computer. Considering what we knew of computers in those days, that idea was laughable - what could anyone possibly want a computer in their home for? Yet, at the same time, predictions of population growth were considered reasonable and turned out to be quite accurate. It depends on what you're trying to predict what people will believe.

 

[Extrafire]

Most of the household appliances we take for granted today (microwave, DVD, VCR, cell phone, computer etc.) didn’t exist in 1969.

As to pornography, in the 70s and 80s religious right in USA had launched a crusade against pornography, they were going to eradicate pornography from USA. To that extent, they concentrated on shutting down porno shops, theatres showing porno movies etc.

Microwaves did exist then, just not as household appliances. Ditto for computers.

Actually in the '70's and '80's there was an explosion of porno available as restrictive laws were relaxed. THe religious right did fight a losing battle against liberalization. Yet, even though it was widely available, governments still kept some regulatory control over it.

Then came the internet, and all their efforts proved to be for nothing. I don’t think religious right even tries to curb pornography any more it is a hopeless task.

What the internet did was eliminate government regulatory control.

But you are right, nobody can forecast what Europe or the world will be like in 50 years (except the far right of course, they have a crystal ball which tells them exactly what is going to happen).

And you! You must have a crystal ball too! You can forecast what Europe will be like in 50 years, you've done it more than once on this thread. Once you predicted 15 or 20% and more recently 20%. You're getting narrower in your predictions, and your prediction agrees with the original article quoted on this thread, another crystal ball source, no doubt!

 

[Extrafire]

Oh, I think we already know the answer to that. I find it interesting that many of them have become lawyers and are beating us at our own game with our own laws.

Indeed we all know the answer to that. But it's instructive as a tool to point out what could happen to Europe, where some Muslims are already using the courts to beat them at their own game.

 

[Kreskin]

Indeed. I recall way back then (not sure but I think it was the '70's) a prediction that every household would have a computer. Considering what we knew of computers in those days, that idea was laughable - what could anyone possibly want a computer in their home for? Yet, at the same time, predictions of population growth were considered reasonable and turned out to be quite accurate. It depends on what you're trying to predict what people will believe.

My first computer had one function - syntax error.

 

[Tonington]

My first computer had one function - syntax error.

Using the wrong scale on your slide rule? :smile:

 

[Kreskin]

Using the wrong scale on your slide rule? :smile:

If I had bought a slide rule I would've saved about $3489.00

 

[Ron in Regina]

Is it too late to fit this one in here? I can't conceivably picture it fitting
anywhere else in the immediate future....

 

[damngrumpy]

You really believe

Some people really believe the Muslims care about freedom of religion. Muslims want to have a say in everything you do let alone religion. I for one believe religious zealots of any stripe should be condemned and we have to start being more selective as to who we let into the country. People with criminal records, a
history of social violence and those who are not tolerant or belong to groups that are not tolerant should be shipped out. There is going to be serious problems among many groups in North America and Europe, economic, energy, and religious
problems will engulf us as time goes on. Unfortunately Muslims by nature of being
loyal to family and tribal culture, end up being isolated by the rest of society which
will I believe, cause all kinds of social unrest.

 

[AnnaG]

As long as Muslims don't proselytise any more than Christians or anyone else, I can't see a problem. People are people and contain both bad and good (mostly good).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

A simple solution to that is to do it at the local level. In Sweden, the central government lays out principles and provides funding, and health boards elected locally at the county or municipal level at the same time as the central government elections decide how to spend that money. You can't tell me that a US municipality or county has a larger population than France, can you?

It has already been tried at a local level, Machjo. It has been tried in Massachusetts. They have tried to cover everybody. And it works. So why not try in all over USA?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You're assuming the trend will reverse without providing any data or logical reasoning to back up that assumption.

I am not assuming anything, Extrafire. On the contrary, what I am saying is that it is wrong to assume anything. You cannot make any kind of prediction as to what Europe (or the world) will be like 50 years from now.

It is my hope that Europe looks pretty much same as today (liberal, progressive, multicultural, a bit more Muslim). That is not my prediction.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

But even if in 2050 it is 1/5, most at the time will just shrug their shoulders and say "ya, is this an issue? What is your point?" Look at Vancouver. In 1969, if it was predicted that by 2009 it could be known as Hongcouver because of immigration, most would've been horrified.

Now you are going even further into future than 50 years, Kreskin. If it is futile to predict what the world will be like in 50 years, how much more futile it is to speculate what it will be like in 100 years.

Who knows, maybe in 50 years Europe’s birthrate may have shot through the roof and they may have a population crises. Or Muslims in Europe may have totally assimilated into the main population. Or Christians may have converted to Islam wholesale and Sharia may haven been imposed all over Europe. Or there may be civil war in Europe between Muslims and Christians.

It is futile to speculate about these things. There are just too many variables, too many uncrowns.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Indeed. I recall way back then (not sure but I think it was the '70's) a prediction that every household would have a computer. Considering what we knew of computers in those days, that idea was laughable - what could anyone possibly want a computer in their home for? .

There is the famous quot eby the CEO of IBM (I think it was in 40s or 50s). He said that the world does not need more than four or five computers.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You can forecast what Europe will be like in 50 years, you've done it more than once on this thread. Once you predicted 15 or 20% and more recently 20%. You're getting narrower in your predictions, and your prediction agrees with the original article quoted on this thread, another crystal ball source, no doubt!

Extrafire, I have already said that the 20% is probably a reasonable figure. As to forecast, I haven’t forecast anything.

Again, when I said that I hope Europe looks pretty much the same as it does today (perhaps a bit more Muslim), that is a hope, not a prediction.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

If I had bought a slide rule I would've saved about $3489.00

Slide rule was a Hell of a lot quicker than a computer. During my Engineering education we used slide rules (this was in the 60s, the first calculator came on board in 1970 or 71). With practice, one became an expert in using slide rule, one could do calculations very quickly (except additions and subtractions of course, one had to do that manually).

 

[ironsides]

A simple solution to that is to do it at the local level. In Sweden, the central government lays out principles and provides funding, and health boards elected locally at the county or municipal level at the same time as the central government elections decide how to spend that money. You can't tell me that a US municipality or county has a larger population than France, can you?

The Fed. goverment gives each state some money for health care. Not sure what you mean by local levels, the states decide how much money to add to the federal monies that eventually get to individual health care recipients. The end result is that the amount of health care provided will vary some state by state.

 

[damngrumpy]

With the kind of religious tensions facing us this will not take fifty years to come to
a head. I believe the world will eventually go to war once again and just like the last time politics will make strange bedfellows. We will for reasons of trade and
religion take each other on. Food, resourses, water in particular, oil, and a host
of other inner conflicts will spill over. Religion will play a part there is no doubt.
The main difference will be how the world residents view the world and the
Muslims will not be the most popular. The last time we engaged in a world conflict
the Japanese were rounded up and shipped inland. The next time if the Muslims
are the greatest threat to western civilization by the powers that be, they will
take action. And that is why you won't have to wait fifty years, in fact fifteen
years will be a long way off, and if Christianity, and societal concerns get nervous
there will be problems right or wrong.

 

[MHz]

Just a refresher, what was the Ottoman Empire like compared to the traits of central/northern Europe at about the same time-frames. Christian lands were certainly going through a lot of persecutions of pretty much everybody, Christians and non-Christians. Was the Ottoman more calm than that atmosphere?

 

[ironsides]

Some people really believe the Muslims care about freedom of religion. Muslims want to have a say in everything you do let alone religion. I for one believe religious zealots of any stripe should be condemned and we have to start being more selective as to who we let into the country. People with criminal records, a
history of social violence and those who are not tolerant or belong to groups that are not tolerant should be shipped out. There is going to be serious problems among many groups in North America and Europe, economic, energy, and religious
problems will engulf us as time goes on. Unfortunately Muslims by nature of being
loyal to family and tribal culture, end up being isolated by the rest of society which
will I believe, cause all kinds of social unrest.

Iran: Our nukes are peaceful, but we'll nuke you if you resist

War Is Peace Alert: those nukes are not hard to make from our peaceful nuclear program if you give us trouble, says Larijani. "Iran issues warning over nuclear program," by Ali Akbar Dareini for Associated Press, June 25 (thanks to JCB):
Jihad Watch: Iran: Our nukes are peaceful, but we'll nuke you if you resist

 

[damngrumpy]

Oh I don't doubt we could face a nuke issue. The fundamentalists will stop at nothing. It is their honor to die for Allah. This is the major issue we face. It
demonstrates one of the great weaknesses of multiculturalism. That is why I have
said it is impossible to mix social oriented countries that believe in freedom for all
as opposed to dealing with the structure of tribal identity. We are inviting a civil
war in our own streets in the distant future. My dad once said to me, if I could
see hungry children eating out of garbage cans in Italy, I should be prepared for
the same problems in the streets of Canada. That goes for almost anything,
we are slowly heading toward eventual conflict whether we chose to believe or
or understand it. There will be conflict between Muslims and the rest of society.