A fifth of European Union will be Muslim by 2050

[Spade]

Indeed, Spade. quote]


In order for that to be a reasonable statement would require you to use logical argument to show where my analysis is wrong. Why don't you try that, instead of just yelling "racist".

You state,"You haven't mentioned immigration as a factor. Keep in mind that European populations are not dropping, even though their birthrate is half of replacement. The deficit is being made up of immigrants. That's a huge number of people, increasing every year, of first generation people who pop out 6 kids per mom."

Hmmmm, your arguments are about "religion" when you contrast "European populations' with "immigrants." Sounds vaguely ethnocentric and xenophobic to me. Time for another crusade?

 

[ironsides]

Comparing USA with China, India, Mexico, Indonesia and Brazil? That is pretty low, ironsides.

Why not, your comparing what a small neighborhood club can accomplishment with healthcare as to what AARP can do. No comparison, 10 people can accomplish a lot more than 30. Now, name me one country with our technology and similar population that is doing a better job, there are none.

 

[Spade]

World Health Organization's health-care ranking (2000)
Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei

 

[Johnnny]

2050, 1/5 ????? Holy ****, i dont care now nor will i care in the year 2050. Which by sounds of some you, seems to be right around the corner >_<

 

[SirJosephPorter]

2050, 1/5 ????? Holy ****, i dont care now nor will i care in the year 2050. Which by sounds of some you, seems to be right around the corner >_<

That is only one estimate, Johnnny (and a reasonable, a rational one). Some far right estimates claim that Europe will be majority Muslim by 2050, with Sharia implemented over most of Europe. That is what has the far right running scared stiff (or maybe it is yet another tactic to whip up anti-Muslims sentiment, I don’t know).

But you are right, 20% by 2050 sounds more like it, and that is what I would expect.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Now, name me one country with our technology and similar population that is doing a better job, there are none

One doesn’t exist, ironsides. That is why the comparison inevitably made with other developed countries. And US health care is found wanting.

 

[Kreskin]

In 2050 our present view of the world will be laughable to most, just like how we look back at other generations. Think back to 1969 and if this was a story headline - "By 2009 nearly every household will have a device to access pornography at anytime of the day". I'm sure most adults would've fallen off their chairs, either in fright or laughter.

 

[ironsides]

World Health Organization's health-care ranking (2000)
Rank Country

Spade: Those countries represent Provinces, State (small populations) size countries all of them. None have a major population to provide healthcare for. The U.S. is the only country with a major population. Larger costs, larger poor populations, larger expenses etc.

 

[Spade]

Japan 127 million
Germany 82 million
France 61 million

 

[SirJosephPorter]

In 2050 our present view of the world will be laughable to most, just like how we look back at other generations. Think back to 1969 and if this was a story headline - "By 2009 nearly every household will have a device to access pornography at anytime of the day". I'm sure most adults would've fallen off their chairs, either in fright or laughter.

Most of the household appliances we take for granted today (microwave, DVD, VCR, cell phone, computer etc.) didn’t exist in 1969.

As to pornography, in the 70s and 80s religious right in USA had launched a crusade against pornography, they were going to eradicate pornography from USA. To that extent, they concentrated on shutting down porno shops, theatres showing porno movies etc.

Then came the internet, and all their efforts proved to be for nothing. I don’t think religious right even tries to curb pornography any more it is a hopeless task.

But you are right, nobody can forecast what Europe or the world will be like in 50 years (except the far right of course, they have a crystal ball which tells them exactly what is going to happen).

 

[ironsides]

Japan 127 million
Germany 82 million
France 61 million

All three of them together do not equal the population of the United States.

 

[Spade]

All three of them together do not equal the population of the United States.

Hah! You only have 30 million white-tailed deer in the continental USA! And the ones in the deep South are only as big as our jackrabbits!

 

[ironsides]

Now, name me one country with our technology and similar population that is doing a better job, there are none

One doesn’t exist, ironsides. That is why the comparison inevitably made with other developed countries. And US health care is found wanting.

None does exist, and now were going to go broke trying to see if one will work.

 

[Machjo]

All three of them together do not equal the population of the United States.

A simple solution to that is to do it at the local level. In Sweden, the central government lays out principles and provides funding, and health boards elected locally at the county or municipal level at the same time as the central government elections decide how to spend that money. You can't tell me that a US municipality or county has a larger population than France, can you?

 

[ironsides]

Hah! You only have 30 million white-tailed deer in the continental USA!

Yes, but how may Burmese pythons do you have running wild in Canada. So there. :smile:

 

[Extrafire]

It does seem like Karma to me. European countries have occupied and enslaved many nations, interfered with internal politics, particularly in the middle east so it seems only right that Muslim people get their revenge.
I wonder what the aboriginal people of the Americas have up their sleeve for their European occupiers?

:lol: I already suggested that it might be enlightening to ask the first nations people what effect unrestricted immigration had on their culture and well being.

 

[Extrafire]

I have already showed you that, Extrafire, you assumptions are questionable. You basically assume that the same birth rate and the same rate of immigration to Europe will continue for the next 50 years.

Reminds me of the time when NASDAQ was at 5500 and experts were confidently talking of it going to 6000 shortly. Nortel was 120 at that time and experts were talking about it going to 200 shortly. They based their projections upon the assumption that the same trend, same assumptions will continue over the next few years.

They were totally wrong. You are assuming that the same trend will continue for the next 50 or 100 years. In my opinion, that is nonsense.

You're assuming the trend will reverse without providing any data or logical reasoning to back up that assumption. You appear to be in denial. Besides, this post is basically a repeat of your previous post, and I already responded to it in post #152. Go back and check it out.

As for your stock market analogy, it isn't a valid analogy. Apples and oranges. Here's a little something about markets that always seems to be true; Whenever all the experts are agreed that something will happen (for example the prediction last year that oil would shortly reach $200 per barrel) invariably something else will happen.

 

[Cliffy]

:lol: I already suggested that it might be enlightening to ask the first nations people what effect unrestricted immigration had on their culture and well being.

Oh, I think we already know the answer to that. I find it interesting that many of them have become lawyers and are beating us at our own game with our own laws.

 

[Kreskin]

Most of the household appliances we take for granted today (microwave, DVD, VCR, cell phone, computer etc.) didn’t exist in 1969.

As to pornography, in the 70s and 80s religious right in USA had launched a crusade against pornography, they were going to eradicate pornography from USA. To that extent, they concentrated on shutting down porno shops, theatres showing porno movies etc.

Then came the internet, and all their efforts proved to be for nothing. I don’t think religious right even tries to curb pornography any more it is a hopeless task.

But you are right, nobody can forecast what Europe or the world will be like in 50 years (except the far right of course, they have a crystal ball which tells them exactly what is going to happen).

But even if in 2050 it is 1/5, most at the time will just shrug their shoulders and say "ya, is this an issue? What is your point?" Look at Vancouver. In 1969, if it was predicted that by 2009 it could be known as Hongcouver because of immigration, most would've been horrified.

 

[Extrafire]

You state,"You haven't mentioned immigration as a factor. Keep in mind that European populations are not dropping, even though their birthrate is half of replacement. The deficit is being made up of immigrants. That's a huge number of people, increasing every year, of first generation people who pop out 6 kids per mom."

Hmmmm, your arguments are about "religion" when you contrast "European populations' with "immigrants." Sounds vaguely ethnocentric and xenophobic to me. Time for another crusade?

The subject we're discussing is that the European population will be 20% Muslim by 2050 (or in other estimations, in excess of 50%). Since the way that will come about involves massive immigration (in addition to population growth amoung the recent muslim immigrants) almost all of whom are of different ethnicity, this discussion cannot avoid that little fact. Is that ethnocentric? No. Xenophobic? Not at all. It's merely a discussion involving all the various factors.

That being said, I have no doubt that there are ethnocentric and xenophobic persons who would find this prediction magnifies their phobias, but that is no reason to blind ourselves to the facts.