Can Ignatieff distance himself from his past?

Francis2004

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Nov 18, 2008
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Ignatieff: No need for personal attacks

“If you mess with me, I will mess with you until I'm done,” Liberal Leader tells Harper




Ignatieff: No need for personal attacks - The Globe and Mail

No need for them but rest assured you going to see LOTS of them from both sides..:lol:
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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The Liberals are hypocrites?

What are you?.

Wow! What a comeback. Weren't you even the slightest bit embarrassed typing that?


Anywho......Iggy = world class arrogance. He will say whatever he feels he needs to say at any given moment. He is anything but a leader. All the Liberal Party hacks on this site can say what they want. Everybody can see that the guy's interest is in himself and not Canada. The two things this shows is that (A)the Liberal party has very little to offer. If this is the best guy they can put forward, they obviously have a complete and utter lack of talent within the membership....and (B) politics in this country is joke. That the Liberals could elect such a waste of skin as a leader and still lead in the opinion polls just goes to show how pathetic the lot is. What's worse than having this group of cretins at the top is actually having people defend them.
 

Polygong

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May 18, 2009
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That the Liberals could elect such a waste of skin as a leader and still lead in the opinion polls just goes to show how pathetic the lot is. What's worse than having this group of cretins at the top is actually having people defend them.

It's probably because, whatever one thinks of the Liberals, they're still a far cry better than the Reform Party.

If we want a better political atmosphere in this country, we need the return of the PCs.
 

Cannuck

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It's probably because, whatever one thinks of the Liberals, they're still a far cry better than the Reform Party.

Hardly. The Reform Party had ideas to fix problems. One can argue whether their solutions were any good but at least they put them forward. The Liberals aren't interested in fixing problems, just shuffling them around. For all his faults, you can thank Preston Manning for the balanced budgets we had for years. It was Preston that put the issue of deficits on the table had kept it in the public eye.

If we want a better political atmosphere in this country, we need the return of the PCs.

No, we need term limits and more independents
 

pegger

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Dec 4, 2008
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I gotta agree with Cannuck, in part. Preston at least fostered debate, and pushed for changes.

Harper hasn't. The only time he raises a glimpse of "different than status quo" thinking, it's to pander to his base. Any "changes" he has put in have been superficial, or non-binding, or exceptionally poor policy. Any positive changes he has made (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but maybe there are some) are greatly overshadowed by the ballooning deficit, and gross incompetence he and his party have displayed on the economic front.

I don't see the Liberals as truly pushing for change either, by hanging onto old ideas, that have been soundly rejected (i.e. national daycare has been rejected twice now by the electorate, give it up.), they don't offer enough of a change in course. The only reason I would vote Liberal in a spring (or summer) election is to get rid of Harper. Hardly an inspiring reason.
 
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Polygong

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Hardly. The Reform Party had ideas to fix problems. One can argue whether their solutions were any good but at least they put them forward. The Liberals aren't interested in fixing problems, just shuffling them around. For all his faults, you can thank Preston Manning for the balanced budgets we had for years. It was Preston that put the issue of deficits on the table had kept it in the public eye.

Crediting Manning for the balanced bugdets? That's just plain laughable. Manning had a talent for pointing out problems, too bad he lacked solutions.

Reform also lacks real solutions. They're little more than a populist movement that milks fear and oversimplifations to score cheap votes. They are the right-wing equivalent of the NDP.

At least with the PCs we had a party on the right with policy based on pragmatism.
 

Cannuck

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Crediting Manning for the balanced bugdets? That's just plain laughable. Manning had a talent for pointing out problems, too bad he lacked solutions.

Of course he had solutions and Paul Martin was listening.

Reform also lacks real solutions. They're little more than a populist movement that milks fear and oversimplifations to score cheap votes. They are the right-wing equivalent of the NDP.

There is no Reform. People that have nothing intelligent to discuss like to call the Conservatives Reformers in some feeble attempt to link the two. People with something intelligent to discuss know that the Reform Party under Preston Manning was nothing like the present Conservatives. Manning had vision. You can argue for or against his vision but you can't argue that he didn't have it and remain credible in any way, shape or form.

At least with the PCs we had a party on the right with policy based on pragmatism.

Utter nonsense. There was little, if any, difference between the Liberals and the old PC's. That's why there was very little change in government when one replaced the other.Take the blinders off.
 

TenPenny

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Utter nonsense. There was little, if any, difference between the Liberals and the old PC's. That's why there was very little change in government when one replaced the other.Take the blinders off.
The Liberal Party was (and is) the darling of the civil service, whereas the civil service viewed the PC party as some sort of anathema.
 

Polygong

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May 18, 2009
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There is no Reform. People that have nothing intelligent to discuss like to call the Conservatives Reformers in some feeble attempt to link the two.

The two are very much linked. The CPC core consists of almost entirely of Reformers and Harrisites (ideologically the same thing) plus Peter Mackay. Other than a few remnants, the PC party is all gone from the CPC caucus. A few like Scott Brison went to the Liberals, others went on to form the Progressive Canadian Party.

The CPC and its supporters will continue to deny this due Rerform's inability to get any support east of Manitoba, but if it walks like Reform, talks like Reform, you can be sure that it is Reform.

Even the biggest hater of the Liberal party in the world, Brian Mulroney, can see that.

Utter nonsense. There was little, if any, difference between the Liberals and the old PC's. That's why there was very little change in government when one replaced the other.Take the blinders off.

They were quite different parties, the gap wasn't very wide but they were different enough. Both sat close to the centre but still offered different ideas to Canadians. Just because the differences weren't drastic doesn't mean they weren't there.
 

Risus

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Hey Walter, be careful your nose will soon be out of joint, a little or lots of hypocrisy is detected in your camp,

The Liberals are hypocrites?

What are you?

Enjoying the benefits put in place by past Great Liberal Governments, much like Pearson managed to bring in many of Canada's major social programs, including universal health care, the Canadian Pention Plan, and Canada Student Loans, and you have the gall to knock the Liberal mind of the past?
Fair critesisem is good but abnoxues attetude sucks.................

LOL, you fail to mention the mess trudeau made with his so called constitution...
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Can Ignatieff distance himself from his past?

Why in hell would he want to?



Tories looking like narrow-minded bigots

Conservative attack ads on Ignatieff take us all for fools. Why not go after Gretzky, too?

By Stephen Hume, Vancouver SunMay 16, 2009
StoryPhotos ( 1 )


Michael Ignatieff is being called un-Canadian for having a brilliant career at some of the world's most illustrious universities.
Photograph by: Andy Clark, Reuters, Files, Vancouver SunMrs. Grundy, that narrow-minded pillar of mean-spirited parochialism, seems to be alive and well and living in Ottawa where she's disguised herself as a Conservative campaign strategist.

Lord, no sooner do we bury an unpleasant provincial election campaign that achieved the dubious honour of earning the lowest voter turnout in British Columbia's political history thanks to its nasty invective than the federal Conservatives launch their own exercise in pettiness and spite.

This time, the target is Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff and the campaign is an apparent attempt to repeat what Conservatives must assume was an earlier rousing success in characterizing then-Liberal leader Stephane Dion as a hapless fool. Presumably they assume the rest of us are fools, too, and ready to buy the same pig twice.

I suspect advertising had less to do with Dion's inability to impress Canadian voters than his apparent naivete and inability to adapt to changing conditions. Nevertheless, the Conservatives are now embarked upon the time-honoured strategy of the narrow-minded bigot, which involves belittling intellectual achievements in the wider world as somehow being inherently un-Canadian.

It's called tearing down somebody else's mountain in an attempt to build your own molehill. It might also be characterized as precisely what Edmund Burke meant when he observed that the personal attack is the last refuge of the scoundrel who has nothing of substance to say.

It's one thing to attack Ignatieff's policy positions. It's entirely another thing to question his integrity because his academic career took him off to study and teach in other countries. A host of Canadians has had career opportunities lead them to Europe, the United States, Asia and Africa -- why is it acceptable for a petroleum engineer to work overseas but not a university professor? And why is scholarship a less worthy profession for a future politician than business or law?

One might wonder why, in the Conservative pantheon of the insufficiently Canadian, this criticism is restricted to one who seeks to be prime minister but doesn't apply to others who have gone on to serve as significant role models by pursuing successful high-profile careers on the world stage.

Apparently Wayne Gretzky doesn't rate as less Canadian for marrying an American and moving to Arizona to coach a hockey franchise. Michael J. Fox is not less Canadian for pursuing a successful Hollywood career as an actor. Pamela Anderson isn't less of a citizen for her fame as an acting celebrity in California. Diana Krall isn't less Canadian for marrying English musician Elvis Costello and living in London, or New York, or whichever world centre she happens to prefer. And Calgary-born soccer star Kevin McKenna didn't betray his patrimony by signing with a professional club in the German league.

But according to the Conservatives, Ignatieff is simply not up to Canadian standards because he succumbed to the temptations of a teaching career at some of the world's most illustrious universities and now has the temerity to think he's got the jelly to contend for the prime minister's job.

Gosh, Ignatieff could have settled for a sessional lecturer's job at some suburban community college. Instead, he won a doctorate from Harvard and then, on the basis of his brains and scholarship, was awarded teaching posts at Cambridge, Oxford, the University of California, the University of London and the London School of Economics.

Oh, yes, and the brainy bounder did something else equally un-Canadian and inexcusable. He wrote 18 books -- some of them critically acclaimed -- and as a consequence found himself in demand on the BBC.

All that when he could have stayed in Canada, written nothing and perhaps developed a career in the toxic wasteland of Conservative talk radio.

For this he's now pilloried as an arrogant egghead who only returned to his country to sate a lust for power. The shame of it! What a betrayal of all things Canadian to achieve fame, respect and success elsewhere and then return home to your country to cap your career by offering yourself for public life.

What, one wonders, would the Conservatives make of the late Bobby Ackles, who had a stellar career in the National Football League and then came home to help revitalize the B.C. Lions and the Canadian Football League.

Frankly, this kind of politics demeans democracy, insults the voters and further undermines their desire to participate in the process and says far more about those who embrace such a campaign of divisive belittlement than it does about the targets of the advertising.

If you ask me, these attack ads are what's un-Canadian, not Ignatieff's career as a world-class intellectual.
 

CDNBear

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Why in hell would he want to?

Tories looking like narrow-minded bigots

Juan why is it when the CPoC does this, it's 'narrow minded and bigoted?

But when the Liberals do it, it's OK?

The funniest thing in Canadian politics is not that Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff and his merry little band of Grit-heads believe they have a divine right to portray Prime Minister Stephen Harper and the Conservatives as planet-destroying, war-mongering, medicare-gutting, women-hating, Bible-thumping, knuckle-dragging, bigots.
Nor is it their plaintive cries of "Oh, unfair!" when Harper responds in kind.
No, the funniest thing in Canadian politics is watching members of the media punditariat fall for this nonsense over and over again.
Recently, there has been much media venting of spleen over Harper daring to run a "negative attack ad," reminding Canadians that (a) Ignatieff stepped briefly outside the country ... for over 30 years (b) referred to himself as an American and (c) returned to Canada to become prime minister.
Uh ... why is that an "attack ad?"
It's all true, unless you believe Ignatieff abandoned some high-forehead post at Harvard University because -- gosh, darn it! -- the chance to be an opposition backbencher from Toronto's Etobicoke-Lakeshore riding was just too good to pass up.
Further, as Liberal uber-strategist Warren Kinsella explains in his book on political campaigning appropriately titled, ahem, Kicking Ass in Canadian Politics, "oppo" short for "opposition research" is "all about scrutinizing the public record of one's adversary, and letting people know about things which he or she would prefer to keep off the front pages."
Well, surely, if it's good enough for the guy the Liberals call their "Prince of Darkness" when it comes to election strategy, the Conservatives are entitled to do to the Liberals what the Liberals will do to them. That said, the Liberal response to this Conservative "attack ad" -- an ad showing Ignatieff looking all prime ministerial and calling Harper a big doofus, only saying it all Harvard-like -- wasn't very effective.
Maybe they should have gone with pointing out that these days, Harper strikes many Canadians as someone willing to abandon principles and say anything to hold on to power.
Which would make him ... a Liberal!
LORRIE.GOLDSTEIN@SUNMEDIA.CA
 

Cannuck

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The CPC and its supporters will continue to deny this due Rerform's inability to get any support east of Manitoba, but if it walks like Reform, talks like Reform, you can be sure that it is Reform.

You are absolutely right. If it walks like Reform and talks like Reform it must be Reform. Funny thing though, while the Reform Party couldn't get arrested in Kweebeck, the Conservatives surpassed the Liberals in popular vote at the last election. Though you will never admit it, there was obviously significant enough change in the policies between The Reform Party and the Conservative Party to "get support east of Manitoba". The Conservative Party had over a third of the votes in Ontario and the Maritimes and virtually tied the Liberals in Newfoundland. The old reform would never have done that (at least according to you). At the same time, the Conservative Party's move to the center pissed off a lot of the old Reform supporters.

No, it's pretty clear that Reform was different. The PC's and the Liberals were made from the same mold. Once the merger occurred and the Conservative party moved toward the Liberals, they became more popular. To deny that would be to accept that it is the Reform policies that are becoming more and more popular down east. If that is the case, then the country is taking a sharp turn to the right. I don't particularly think so. I'm quite sure you don't think so either. You probably posted before you thought it through. That happens sometimes.
 

captain morgan

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So here are the choices..

Harper = Zero accomplished with big deficit due to proroguement of parliament and denial of recession.

Ignatieff = Ameriacn ideas ( Claimed by Conservatives ) with Centre Right policies.

Layton = Totally left policy to lead to Canada backwards.

Unless Conservative Party changes Leaders, my choice is pretty slim isn't it..

Iggy's ideas are not 'American' and no where near 'centre-right'

He is supporting the extension of Dion's Green Shift (under different program), but essentially another carbon-style tax.

Iggy is running on the premise that working Canadians need only work 45 days before qualifying for 1 year's worth of EI benefits.

He has openly stated that if doesn't become PM, he will go and beg for his job back at Harvard.

With his tax-em-to-death policies, Iggy is closer on the political spectrum to Trudeau or Stalin than he is to the centre.
 

Machjo

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Iggy's ideas are not 'American' and no where near 'centre-right'

He is supporting the extension of Dion's Green Shift (under different program), but essentially another carbon-style tax.

Iggy is running on the premise that working Canadians need only work 45 days before qualifying for 1 year's worth of EI benefits.

He has openly stated that if doesn't become PM, he will go and beg for his job back at Harvard.

With his tax-em-to-death policies, Iggy is closer on the political spectrum to Trudeau or Stalin than he is to the centre.

While I agree that Iggy's got lots of issues, we nee'd bring up Stalin-rhetoric. It just destroyes credibility.

I don't like Iggy's position on EI, too expensive. I do like his green shift though as it makes taxes more user-pay, and gives us more control as to how much tax we want to pay.

I do worry about his past militarist ideas though, and would want a clearer idea of where he stands on them now.

Honestly, I doubt I'd vote for him if he were in my riding. But to compare him with Stalin etc. is beyond ludicrous.
 

Machjo

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Hardly. The Reform Party had ideas to fix problems. One can argue whether their solutions were any good but at least they put them forward. The Liberals aren't interested in fixing problems, just shuffling them around. For all his faults, you can thank Preston Manning for the balanced budgets we had for years. It was Preston that put the issue of deficits on the table had kept it in the public eye.



No, we need term limits and more independents

I have no issue with a competent politician making errors, honest errors, now and then. I can forgive that. What I can't forgive are arrogance, dishonesty, etc.

I never voted for a Reform Candidate in Victoria BC because it seemed the Reformeres there attracted many biggots. It really was a shame because the Reform Party had many good ideas, and from what I could tell Preson Manning steered well clear of those biggots (but he wasn't in my riding). My repulsion was more with the local Reformers than the party as such.

To be fair to the candidates though, it was also partially my fault sinse I was too young, ignorant and lazy at the time to really try to get to know the local candidate himself. The Reformers I did meet truly were bigots and I went on that image. For all I know, the actual candidates may have been much better.

Actually I think this is one big problem with the right. I always steer right myself, but it also seems many bigots do too, and so I find myself flirting with the left again only to find them as repulsive. If a right-wing party could just keep the biggots out it would be great. The Conservative Party has managed to an admirble degree, but then we see how it's also lost many voters and so had to gain more by shifting left. You just can't win either way.