Is forgiveness love .

[china]

You insult me and I resent it, remember it; then, either through compulsion or through repentance, I say, “I forgive you.” First I retain and then I reject. Which means what? I am still the central figure; it is I who am forgiving somebody. As long as there is the attitude of forgiving it is I who am important, not the man who is supposed to have insulted me. So when I accumulate resentment and then deny that resentment, which you call forgiveness, it is not love. A man who loves obviously has no enmity and to all these things he is indifferent. Sympathy, forgiveness, the relationship of possessiveness, jealousy and fear—all these things are not love. They are all of the mind, aren't they .

 

[El Barto]

I believe so to.
I am not a very forgiving person, nor do i forget.
When I wrong someone , I find it hard to forgive myself.
Forgiveness comes easier when the other person makes an effort to change. I see no point in forgiving when things repeat themselves.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

As long as there is the attitude of forgiving it is I who am important, not the man who is supposed to have insulted me.

Quite right, China. I forgive people out of selfishness. That is why if somebody has done me something wrong, I don’t ask the question, does he deserve forgiveness? I couldn’t care less. I forgive because that makes me feel good; it has nothing to do with the other fellow.

So when I accumulate resentment and then deny that resentment, which you call forgiveness, it is not love

That is not forgiveness. Denying the resentment (when you actually feel the resentment) is bottling it up. That builds up the pressure and it results in an explosion at some stage.

If I forgive somebody, first I acknowledge my emotions, I acknowledge my resentment. Then I let go of the resentment (I don’t deny it). I purge my self of it; it is a cleansing process, not bottling it in. Of course, I have a big ego, that helps the process along.

When I forgive somebody, that makes me feel good, that is the end of the episode (and end of that individual’s involvement in my life). I turn the page and move on. Try it sometime, it s a great feeling.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I see no point in forgiving when things repeat themselves.

El Barto, I don’t think one has anything to do with the other. After I forgive somebody, I make sure that he is out of my life. Whether he admits the mistake or not is irrelevant to me (even if he admits the mistake, how do I know he won’t repeat it again?). Unless it is a very close relation (my mother, brother, sister etc.), he is gone from my life forever.

I forgive because it makes me feel good. But if I keep in contact with the individual and the same thing keeps happening over and over again, that defeats the purpose of forgiving. So forgiveness is usually accompanied by severing of relations with that person, be he a friend or an acquaintance.

 

[El Barto]

I see no point in forgiving when things repeat themselves.

El Barto, I don’t think one has anything to do with the other. After I forgive somebody, I make sure that he is out of my life. Whether he admits the mistake or not is irrelevant to me (even if he admits the mistake, how do I know he won’t repeat it again?). Unless it is a very close relation (my mother, brother, sister etc.), he is gone from my life forever.

I forgive because it makes me feel good. But if I keep in contact with the individual and the same thing keeps happening over and over again, that defeats the purpose of forgiving. So forgiveness is usually accompanied by severing of relations with that person, be he a friend or an acquaintance.

Yes , I am of the same side on this one.
But i am a slow learner at certain things.

 

[YukonJack]

To my way of thinking, forgiveness is being humble enough to believe in redemption.

When I forgive someone, I also forget. I am not petty, small-minded, trivial and spiteful to lock a person out of my life forever for one mistake.

I forgive because it makes the person I forgave feel good. I keep in mind that maybe someday I may need someone else's forgiveness.

 

[El Barto]

To my way of thinking, forgiveness is being humble enough to believe in redemption.

When I forgive someone, I also forget. I am not petty, small-minded, trivial and spiteful to lock a person out of my life forever for one mistake.

I forgive because it makes the person I forgave feel good. I keep in mind that maybe someday I may need someone else's forgiveness.

ohh your subtle ;-)

 

[JLM]

I see no point in forgiving when things repeat themselves.

El Barto, I don’t think one has anything to do with the other. After I forgive somebody, I make sure that he is out of my life. Whether he admits the mistake or not is irrelevant to me (even if he admits the mistake, how do I know he won’t repeat it again?). Unless it is a very close relation (my mother, brother, sister etc.), he is gone from my life forever.

I forgive because it makes me feel good. But if I keep in contact with the individual and the same thing keeps happening over and over again, that defeats the purpose of forgiving. So forgiveness is usually accompanied by severing of relations with that person, be he a friend or an acquaintance.

You're partly right, but I can't understand how you can dismiss someone out of your life that you forgive. I could only forgive someone by putting them back to "status quo". I think it's possible to forgive an act but keeping in mind the tendency has probably not gone away. I can only dismiss someone who deliberately and habitually does me harm.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

You're partly right, but I can't understand how you can dismiss someone out of your life that you forgive. I could only forgive someone by putting them back to "status quo".

JLM, that is why I said, that I forgive him for my sake, not for his sake. When I forgive him, that means I hold no resentment, no anger towards him. I relieve myself of the responsibility of avenging myself, or of getting even for the outrage he performed.

If he is unrepentant, or only makes a perfunctory apology, I want him out of my life; I want to have nothing to do with him. If he is contrite, proves to me that it genuinely was a mistake, that he didn’t mean it, he makes recompense and assures me that it will never happen again (I will want to see what steps he has taken to ensure that it doesn’t’ happen again), then I will consider letting him back in my life.

But no way he automatically gets back in status quo; perhaps we understand different things by forgiveness.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Let me explain how forgiveness works in my case. Suppose my house is burgled. My first reaction would be to strangle the miscreant. However, after I have cooled down, I will forgive him. I will collect the insurance money and build my life back. Now I hold no resentment towards the burglar.

But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to pay for his deeds. Suppose he is apprehended, I would want him to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, the fact that I have forgiven him is irrelevant. My hope would be that he is convicted and gets a long sentence.

But suppose he gets a light sentence or even gets off o a technicality. I won’t feel any need to go after him; I hold no resentment towards him. I have moved on with my life and let him move on with his. Resentment will only eat away at me like an acid; it will harm me, not him. But I hold no resentment towards him.

So whether he is convicted or not, I come out the winner.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

To my way of thinking, forgiveness is being humble enough to believe in redemption.

Yukon Jack, that may be the religious definition of forgiveness, I don’t know. That is not the secular definition, I don’t believe in redemption.

When I forgive someone, I also forget.

I will forgive, but I won’t forget.

I forgive because it makes the person I forgave feel good.

Not necessarily. I forgive because it makes me feel good. Suppose the person who has wronged you neither deserves not desires your forgiveness. Does that mean that you won’t forgive him? I would forgive him even in that case.

 

[talloola]

I don't think forgiveness has a lot to do with the person you are forgiving, or a lot to do
with love. I think it has to do with one's own maturity and how they have grown in
life, as forgiving brings on a feeling of contentment and freedom. It is very
stressful to carry resentment and nonforgiveness, and prays on the mind, but the
feeling one gets when you release all of that stress, is good, and also proves that
one has learned the value of what is really important, or 'not' important
as you go through life.
Whatever one has done to 'need' your forgiveness, is praying on 'their' mind, and
it is 'they' who have to work that out, and if they know that you are not spending
every waking hour hating them, maybe they can do that a little easier.

But, on the other hand, one doesn't forget, which is good, as one must be
aware of what can happen to them, and be a little smarter the next time.

 

[VanIsle]

I don't think forgiveness has a lot to do with the person you are forgiving, or a lot to do
with love. I think it has to do with one's own maturity and how they have grown in
life, as forgiving brings on a feeling of contentment and freedom. It is very
stressful to carry resentment and nonforgiveness, and prays on the mind, but the
feeling one gets when you release all of that stress, is good, and also proves that
one has learned the value of what is really important, or 'not' important
as you go through life.
Whatever one has done to 'need' your forgiveness, is praying on 'their' mind, and
it is 'they' who have to work that out, and if they know that you are not spending
every waking hour hating them, maybe they can do that a little easier.

But, on the other hand, one doesn't forget, which is good, as one must be
aware of what can happen to them, and be a little smarter the next time.

I think that sometimes people say "I'm sorry" even though they don't mean it. They say it so they do not have to suffer the wrath of another person being put on them. They don't feel sorry for what they have done and they continue the same "mistake" over and over again, each time giving the same apology which begins to pale in meaning to the point of meaning nothing more than words almost like an irritating mantra rather than being soothing. If this person is a part of your family, there is not much you can do. I don't believe that anyone forgives and forgets a wrong done. I believe you can forgive and move on. None of us ever forgets. We forget the person who mistakenly bumps into us and apologizes but the "greater" wrongs are never forgotten. I think the most un-forgiveable wrongs are those that are repeated over and over with meaningless apologies. When this occurs you learn to "accept" the apology knowing it is just words and that the same "mistake" will be repeated within either hours or days. Sir Joe - you might be one to walk away. Not everyone can.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I don't think forgiveness has a lot to do with the person you are forgiving, or a lot to do
with love. I think it has to do with one's own maturity and how they have grown in
life, as forgiving brings on a feeling of contentment and freedom. It is very
stressful to carry resentment and nonforgiveness, and prays on the mind, but the
feeling one gets when you release all of that stress, is good, and also proves that
one has learned the value of what is really important, or 'not' important
as you go through life.
Whatever one has done to 'need' your forgiveness, is praying on 'their' mind, and
it is 'they' who have to work that out, and if they know that you are not spending
every waking hour hating them, maybe they can do that a little easier.

But, on the other hand, one doesn't forget, which is good, as one must be
aware of what can happen to them, and be a little smarter the next time.

talloola, we are in perfect agreement here.

 

[JLM]

"Suppose he is apprehended, I would want him to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, the fact that I have forgiven him is irrelevant. My hope would be that he is convicted and gets a long sentence."- I think about it a little diffenently- first I would like to know WHY he did it and second if it coincides with his general nature. I'm not one for smashing mosquitos on an anvils unless they are rapists or pedophiles or cold blooded murderers. However having said that once a person does some vile act, i always think there is a possibility of them reoffending, given the right conditions. I've never felt that a person should be abandoned just because they aren't perfect, not withstanding of course the fact you do have to be careful when there are other family members (that could be hurt) residing with you.

 

[talloola]

I think that sometimes people say "I'm sorry" even though they don't mean it. They say it so they do not have to suffer the wrath of another person being put on them. They don't feel sorry for what they have done and they continue the same "mistake" over and over again, each time giving the same apology which begins to pale in meaning to the point of meaning nothing more than words almost like an irritating mantra rather than being soothing. If this person is a part of your family, there is not much you can do. I don't believe that anyone forgives and forgets a wrong done. I believe you can forgive and move on. None of us ever forgets. We forget the person who mistakenly bumps into us and apologizes but the "greater" wrongs are never forgotten. I think the most un-forgiveable wrongs are those that are repeated over and over with meaningless apologies. When this occurs you learn to "accept" the apology knowing it is just words and that the same "mistake" will be repeated within either hours or days. Sir Joe - you might be one to walk away. Not everyone can.

Very true, and sometimes the only things that those 'sorts' are sorry for, is that
they either caught or are found out, or feel that they better say sorry, to get
out of trouble.
But I still think those 'sorts' must be forgiven, so that the forgiver can let go,
walk away, and get on with it, not so much for the person who has committed
the wrong, but for the 'injured' party, life is short, and time is wasted harbouring hate and unforgiveness.

 

[YukonJack]

talloola, who is your friend on the beach?

Is that a Lab or a Chessie?

 

[talloola]

talloola, who is your friend on the beach??

I answered this question the other day. I used to breed labs, and Joe is a chocolate lab, the one male I kept from my last lab litter, 10 years ago. He had 8 sisters. He was allready spoken for, but I backed out of the deal, and I am so glad I did. He is a beautiful specimen,
and so true to the lab ideal. I showed labs, and also some of them did their
obedience/and/or hunting trials.
Joes sire and dam are canadian champions, but I never did show him, just
wanted to keep him at home with us as a pet.
He, along with our tabby cat, (joes love), are our true companions. Joe knows
everything we say, and reacts immediately to a comment, knowing what is
about to happen.

 

[YukonJack]

Sorry, tallola, I must have missed your reply.

The reason I asked is that I have Chessie, my retirement present from my wife. I had a dog (or two) all my life and this boy, (we call him Quigley) is one of the nicest and gentlest dog we ever had.He gets along with Daisy (our Lemon Beagle) and loves our little grand daughter. Another thing: he has a voice range that could be the envy of Pavarotti, from the lowest low to the highest squeak.

From a distance Choclate labs and Chessies can be misidentified, but one thing is certain: both breeds are tops.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Forgiveness is not Love;

- Forgiveness is the means to which we enable our souls to free from the burden of emotional roller coasters we are subjected in by others with in the course of our lives.
3 strikes method works in a civilized world…….and then the lights of forgiveness are out.