The Improbability of God
- Thread starter Scott Free
- Start date
Dear Eanassir,
Thought experiment 2.
An Aztec child born before the Conquest dies at childbirth. Does she go to heaven? Yes or no! No long quotes from the Qur'an please!
Thought experiment 2.
An Aztec child born before the Conquest dies at childbirth. Does she go to heaven? Yes or no! No long quotes from the Qur'an please!
Wasn't Quatzequatel a white dud with a beard? Incans were also visited by a white guy with a beard I'd say yes, Zeus made his rounds long before Pizarro slaughtered millions in the name of Zeus.
God does not like the wrong-doer, the proud, the traitor and the sinner; therefore, He will not give such bad persons, the guidance.
Of course not, eanassir. In the eyes of God (your God, that is), killing of homosexuals (like they do in Iran and Saudi Arabia), stoning of women to death for adultery (as they recently did in Somalia), honour killings (a man killing his wife, his mother, his sister or his daughter because he thinks that she has brought dishonour to him) are all good deeds, and deserving of rich rewards in the Heaven (does a man who does honour killings get 72 virgins, same as a terrorist?).
Of course not, eanassir. In the eyes of God (your God, that is), killing of homosexuals (like they do in Iran and Saudi Arabia), stoning of women to death for adultery (as they recently did in Somalia), honour killings (a man killing his wife, his mother, his sister or his daughter because he thinks that she has brought dishonour to him) are all good deeds, and deserving of rich rewards in the Heaven (does a man who does honour killings get 72 virgins, same as a terrorist?).
In a cathedral in Cusco, Peru, just off the Plaza del Armas, is a painting by an Incan artist after da Vinci's Last Supper that portrays Judas with the face of Pizarro! Perfect!
No eanassir, it *is* the logical rule. You cannot show that a book is correct by citing it in support of itself, any more than you can personally show that you are correct simply by claiming to be. It's a circular argument that goes nowhere. And as I've told you before on several occasions, I *have* read the book, in two different translations, not translations of its meaning, but translations of the book itself. Silly is one of the kinder descriptions I'd apply to it.
I don't think I've ever said it was useless, and if I did I'll withdraw that. I recall saying it's silly, dull, repetitive, boring, mythological, and a few other things, but not useless. It does provide some insight into the Muslim mind.
There are not such pillars. There's no heaven either, so pillars for it aren't necessary.
Christianity, even in its most nasty and self-righteous fundamentalist forms, at least gives wrong-doers a chance to redeem themselves in this life. But not your Allah, he deliberately leads wrong-doers even farther down the paths of evil and then condemns them for what he's made them do. Nice. :roll:
Origins of religions might be a reaction to contact with an alien race by primitive humans. The humans considered the technology of the aliens to be supernatural and the aliens themselves to be gods. According to von Däniken, the oral and literal traditions of most religions contain references to visitors from "stars" and vehicles traveling through air and space. These, he says, should be interpreted as literal descriptions which have changed during the passage of time and have become more obscure, rather than as symbolic or mythical fiction. One such is Ezekiel's revelation in the Old Testament, which he interprets as a detailed description of a landing spacecraft.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken
How about a map of Antarctica drawn thousands of years before man knew about it. Could aliens have given or somehow lost a map that was found by early man?
"The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an accurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC."
Could these visitors have been what all religions are based upon. They would have appeared as gods to primitive man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken
How about a map of Antarctica drawn thousands of years before man knew about it. Could aliens have given or somehow lost a map that was found by early man?
"The Piri Reis map shows the western coast of Africa, the eastern coast of South America, and the northern coast of Antarctica. The northern coastline of Antarctica is perfectly detailed. The most puzzling however is not so much how Piri Reis managed to draw such an accurate map of the Antarctic region 300 years before it was discovered, but that the map shows the coastline under the ice. Geological evidence confirms that the latest date Queen Maud Land could have been charted in an ice-free state is 4000 BC."
Could these visitors have been what all religions are based upon. They would have appeared as gods to primitive man.
The Piri Reis map has fascinated many.
The Disclosure Project - Two-hour Disclosure Witness Testimony DVD 1of2
The Disclosure Project - Two-hour Disclosure Witness Testimony DVD 1of2
A jeez, more of this crap. There is no such map. Von Daniken is well known as a fraud, a faker of evidence, and an entirely too credulous thinker who started with the conclusion that we've been visited by aliens and forced all his evidence to fit that idea. Read this.
And on the specific matter of the Piri Re'is map, read this.
It's a bit long, so for those who don't want to wade through it, it concludes with this:
"All in all, the Piri Re‘is map of 1513 is easily explained. It shows no unknown lands, least of all Antarctica, and contained errors (such as Columbus’s belief that Cuba was an Asian peninsula) that ought not to have been present if it derived from extremely accurate ancient originals. It also conforms to the prevalent geographical theories of the early sixteenth century, including ideas about the necessity of balancing landmasses in the north with others in the south to prevent the earth from tipping over (just as Hapgood hypothesised with his crustal displacement theory). Nevertheless, the map was a remarkable achievement, testimony to the skills of Piri as a cartographer and the only surviving representative of the maps made by Columbus during his first two voyages of discovery. As with so much in Bad Archaeology, it is only made mysterious by the wilful ignoring of evidence that explains its methods of composition (most importantly, the legends written by the mapmaker himself) and by making exaggerated claims about its accuracy while its manifest inaccuracy is overlooked."
Nobody's produced a credible explanation for gods or religions by invoking visiting aliens.
<B><H1>
Ancient Aircraft:
</B>
"Our resident MUFON psychologist and hypnotherapist, Dr. Ruth Hover, and her husband took a trip to the pyramids and temples of Egypt. In the temple at Abydios, she photographed a wall panel in a section where an overlaying panel with Egyptian heiroglyphics crumbled and fell, revealing an older panel beneath it. This older panel, shown below, contains embossed images of what appear to be ancient aircraft."
Ancient Aircraft
Ancient Flying Machines:
World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines
Forget the map for a moment, what about these objects?
excuse bold, cannot turn it off.
</H1>Ancient Aircraft
Ancient Flying Machines:
World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines
Forget the map for a moment, what about these objects?
excuse bold, cannot turn it off.
As in the book Man after Death man-after-death.t35.com by the late interpreter Mohammed Ali Hassan Al-Hilly:
This newly born child: her spirit will disintegrate and disappear; because she is less than 40 days age, and the ethereal particles of her spirit have not compacted within this insufficient period of time.
man-after-death.t35.com/#Formation_of_the_Soul_Inside_the_Body_
After 40 days of age, the "hearing", the "eye-sight" and the "spiritual heart" will form for the child; before the 40 days of age the child has no such "hearing", "sight" and "spiritual heart", which are some essential organs of the soul.
man-after-death.t35.com/#Special_Senses_of_the_Soul_
Children 40 days and up who die, then their souls will go to Paradise to be with their parents if their parents are righteous and monotheists, or will be with some other righteous people of Paradise (who will certainly treat them like their parents.)
When the child lives until reaching her/his puberty then he will be judged and go to Paradise or Hell according to his/her monotheism and righteous work or sins.
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Ironsides, it cannot be denied that there are some unanswered questions regarding ancient documents and ancient monuments.
I remember one of my Hindu friends telling me about an incidence in Ramayana. I don’t think this is mentioned in the links given by you, but it does have relevance to airplanes and flight.
The story has to do with Hanuman, the monkey God described in Ramayana. Once a doctor asked Hanuman to fetch some herb for him (it was needed to cure Sita, the heroin of Ramayana). The doctor told Hanuman
“Start flying from here, and keep to the same direction. When you see the shape of a trident from the air, land on the mountain and there you will see the herb that I want. Bring me a generous supply.”
For a long time it was considered just a fable, until air travel was discovered. It seems that there really is a place, a mountain which has the shape of trident as seen from air. Of course, from land one wouldn’t see a trident.
But the astounding part of it is that the trident exists not in India, or even in Asia, but in South America. The whole thing is inexplicable.
Now it is quite possible that there was an advanced, technological civilization in ancient days, and got destroyed due to some reason. But we will never know if that is true, it is idle (if fascinating) speculation.
I remember one of my Hindu friends telling me about an incidence in Ramayana. I don’t think this is mentioned in the links given by you, but it does have relevance to airplanes and flight.
The story has to do with Hanuman, the monkey God described in Ramayana. Once a doctor asked Hanuman to fetch some herb for him (it was needed to cure Sita, the heroin of Ramayana). The doctor told Hanuman
“Start flying from here, and keep to the same direction. When you see the shape of a trident from the air, land on the mountain and there you will see the herb that I want. Bring me a generous supply.”
For a long time it was considered just a fable, until air travel was discovered. It seems that there really is a place, a mountain which has the shape of trident as seen from air. Of course, from land one wouldn’t see a trident.
But the astounding part of it is that the trident exists not in India, or even in Asia, but in South America. The whole thing is inexplicable.
Now it is quite possible that there was an advanced, technological civilization in ancient days, and got destroyed due to some reason. But we will never know if that is true, it is idle (if fascinating) speculation.
Dear eanassir,
You Wrote:
"This newly born child: her spirit will disintegrate and disappear; because she is less than 40 days age, and the ethereal particles of her spirit have not compacted within this insufficient period of time.
After 40 days of age, the "hearing", the "eye-sight" and the "spiritual heart" will form for the child; before the 40 days of age the child has no such "hearing", "sight" and "spiritual heart", which are some essential organs of the soul."
Eanassir, surely you cannot believe that a child at 39 days is materially different from a child of 41 days!
And you also wrote:
When the child lives until reaching her/his puberty then he will be judged and go to Paradise or Hell according to his/her monotheism and righteous work or sins."
So, a child reaching puberty raised by atheists, or polytheists, or any religion not approved by Islam is destined to hell? That is a barbaric, preposterous belief, admittedly shared by many Christians! That belief contradicts the very notion of a compassionate, loving God,
You Wrote:
"This newly born child: her spirit will disintegrate and disappear; because she is less than 40 days age, and the ethereal particles of her spirit have not compacted within this insufficient period of time.
After 40 days of age, the "hearing", the "eye-sight" and the "spiritual heart" will form for the child; before the 40 days of age the child has no such "hearing", "sight" and "spiritual heart", which are some essential organs of the soul."
Eanassir, surely you cannot believe that a child at 39 days is materially different from a child of 41 days!
And you also wrote:
When the child lives until reaching her/his puberty then he will be judged and go to Paradise or Hell according to his/her monotheism and righteous work or sins."
So, a child reaching puberty raised by atheists, or polytheists, or any religion not approved by Islam is destined to hell? That is a barbaric, preposterous belief, admittedly shared by many Christians! That belief contradicts the very notion of a compassionate, loving God,
The god du jour - SunDay, March 15.
I have been remiss in not paying proper attention to the Slavic pantheon. Today, meet Svarog, the sun god!
Slavic mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I have been remiss in not paying proper attention to the Slavic pantheon. Today, meet Svarog, the sun god!
Slavic mythology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[Spade said:] "Eanassir, surely you cannot believe that a child at 39 days is materially different from a child of 41 days!"
I think it is about 40 days of age.
See in the following link about this subject and more details:
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Fetus_Neither_Hears_Nor_Sees_
"Third –
A- Before 40 days of age:
[The interpreter wrote:]
"Approach to an infant, and sit near to him, on condition that his age does not exceed ten days, then shout near his head, you will see that the baby does not move or cry; for he is deaf and cannot hear any thing of your voice.
Then make another examination of this baby: that is to pass your hand in front of his eyes and you will see that he does not close his eyes and that his eyelids do not blink; that is because he is blind and cannot see anything.
Then, carefully, watch his eyes and look at his pupils, you will see that his gaze does not direct to a certain object but he is like the blind.
Then watch him when he sucks his mother's breast; he does not see the nipple in order to engulf it directly, but he will move his head left and right until it will come into his mouth, then he will engulf it.
As regards to his consciousness; the baby does not understand or realize until three months after his birth; that is because the baby, at his birth, has no hearing, sight or spiritual heart, but these form gradually; that is after the compaction of the ethereal particles from which the soul has been constructed; so that, after a short period of time: when those ethereal particles will adhere to each other, you will see that he hears, sees and becomes conscious; because, during this period, the ethereal special senses have been formed for his soul.
B- After 40 days of age:
Now do another test to confirm that:
Approach the baby with whom you did the first experiment, and sit near him, on the condition that he has exceeded forty days of age, then shout near him with a low shout; it is enough to sneeze near his head, then you will see him awake and cry because your voice has annoyed him; as if you have stricken him with a stick; for he has started to hear.
Then pass your hand in front on his eyes, and you will see him close his eyes and blink his eyelids; for he has started to see.
Then observe his pupils: you will see his gaze directing towards objects specially to the light.
Then watch him when his mother suckles him, you will see him engulf the nipple of her breast directly and does not move his head as was he doing at the beginning.
From these observations, you will realize that, during this short period of time, the hearing, sight and spiritual heart have been formed for the baby; after he was not hearing, not seeing, and after being unable to understand.
· God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 16: 78
I think it is about 40 days of age.
See in the following link about this subject and more details:
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Fetus_Neither_Hears_Nor_Sees_
"Third –
A- Before 40 days of age:
[The interpreter wrote:]
"Approach to an infant, and sit near to him, on condition that his age does not exceed ten days, then shout near his head, you will see that the baby does not move or cry; for he is deaf and cannot hear any thing of your voice.
Then make another examination of this baby: that is to pass your hand in front of his eyes and you will see that he does not close his eyes and that his eyelids do not blink; that is because he is blind and cannot see anything.
Then, carefully, watch his eyes and look at his pupils, you will see that his gaze does not direct to a certain object but he is like the blind.
Then watch him when he sucks his mother's breast; he does not see the nipple in order to engulf it directly, but he will move his head left and right until it will come into his mouth, then he will engulf it.
As regards to his consciousness; the baby does not understand or realize until three months after his birth; that is because the baby, at his birth, has no hearing, sight or spiritual heart, but these form gradually; that is after the compaction of the ethereal particles from which the soul has been constructed; so that, after a short period of time: when those ethereal particles will adhere to each other, you will see that he hears, sees and becomes conscious; because, during this period, the ethereal special senses have been formed for his soul.
B- After 40 days of age:
Now do another test to confirm that:
Approach the baby with whom you did the first experiment, and sit near him, on the condition that he has exceeded forty days of age, then shout near him with a low shout; it is enough to sneeze near his head, then you will see him awake and cry because your voice has annoyed him; as if you have stricken him with a stick; for he has started to hear.
Then pass your hand in front on his eyes, and you will see him close his eyes and blink his eyelids; for he has started to see.
Then observe his pupils: you will see his gaze directing towards objects specially to the light.
Then watch him when his mother suckles him, you will see him engulf the nipple of her breast directly and does not move his head as was he doing at the beginning.
From these observations, you will realize that, during this short period of time, the hearing, sight and spiritual heart have been formed for the baby; after he was not hearing, not seeing, and after being unable to understand.
· God - be exalted - said in the Quran, 16: 78
و اللهُ أخْرَجَكُمْ مِنْ بُطُونِ أُمّهاتِكُمْ لا تَعْلَمُونَ شَيْئاً و جَعََلَ لَكُمُ السّمْعَ و الأبْصارَ و الأفْئِدَةَ لَعَلّكُمْ تَشْكُرُون .
The explanation:
(And God brought you forth [O people] from the wombs of your mothers when you knew nothing,
and He assigned for you the hearing and eye-sights and [spiritual] hearts: that you be thankful [to God.] )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore, (and He assigned for you the hearing and eye-sights and [spiritual] hearts) means: After you got out of your mothers' wombs, He made for your souls – the hearing, the sight and [spiritual] hearts; that you may thank your Lord, and show gratitude to Him.
So, the 'hearing' is the ear of the soul; the 'sight' is the eye of the soul; and the 'spiritual heart' is the heart of the soul."
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Fetus_Neither_Hears_Nor_Sees_
(And God brought you forth [O people] from the wombs of your mothers when you knew nothing,
and He assigned for you the hearing and eye-sights and [spiritual] hearts: that you be thankful [to God.] )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore, (and He assigned for you the hearing and eye-sights and [spiritual] hearts) means: After you got out of your mothers' wombs, He made for your souls – the hearing, the sight and [spiritual] hearts; that you may thank your Lord, and show gratitude to Him.
So, the 'hearing' is the ear of the soul; the 'sight' is the eye of the soul; and the 'spiritual heart' is the heart of the soul."
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Fetus_Neither_Hears_Nor_Sees_
a baby can hear and see before he/she is born, as far as the spiritual, he/she will
figure that out on his/her own, with only input being from parents or outside
influences.
(sight at birth varies, as some see quite clearly and some take a short while to
develope clear sight).
figure that out on his/her own, with only input being from parents or outside
influences.
(sight at birth varies, as some see quite clearly and some take a short while to
develope clear sight).