Controversy surrounds Obama's faith office

Tyr

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Nov 27, 2008
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Whatever happened to the seperation of Church and State? Or is the Bush evangelism still alive and kicking in some dark backroom?

When is the pandering to religious groups going to end?

President Obama's newly revamped Office of Faith Based Initiatives is reigniting a contentious debate across the ideological spectrum over whether religious organizations that accept funds from the government should be allowed to discriminate when hiring.
On the campaign trail, President Obama's views on federal money and discrimination seemed clear.





In one corner is a string of religion-backed organizations that have accepted federal funds from the 8-year-old program to advance their secular charity work.

President Bush issued an executive order in 2002 that allowed these groups to continue their practice of discrimination with respect to hiring. Specifically, many of the organizations carry policies against hiring outside their religion or hiring homosexuals whose lifestyles conflict with church doctorines.

In the other corner are separation-of-church-and-state advocates and human-rights organizations that say the government must constitutionally compel these organizations to follow nondiscrimination laws if they accept federal funding. Anything less, they say, would at best be a violation of church-state separation and at worst an implicit endorsement of discrimination.

"[President Obama] is under heavy pressure from those who support faith-based hiring in these enterprises to not just eliminate it," said Ira C. Lupu, a professor at The George Washington University Law School. "Others say that hiring on the basis of religion is discriminatory and that the government should never subsidize that. As a political matter, there is a lot of pressure from both sides."

Obama himself waded into the debate during the presidential campaign, delivering a widely viewed speech in Zanesville, Ohio, during which he endorsed faith-based programs, but said the beneficiaries of such government aid should be forced to cease discriminatory practices.

"If you get a federal grant, you can't use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can't discriminate against them -- or against the people you hire -- on the basis of their religion," Obama said in the July 1 speech at the East Side Community Ministry.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Here is what the US Constitution says on the separation of Church and State:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion


First Amendment.

As far as I know, that is it. Full stop.

You realize that all that forbids is CONGRESS from passing a law making a specific church the religion of the nation with special priviledges.......like The Church Of England in Great Britain, where the Monarch is also head of the church....

It is a reaction to the special status and authority held by that church in the colonies before the Revolution.

thart's all, guys.

No ban on Prayer in schools, no ban on the Ten Commandments in courthouses, none of that silliness, all invented by idiots on the bench that believe constitutions are "living documents" (may there be a special place in Hell for them)

So, if the gov't wants to dispense funds to Churchs engaged in secular charity work (which is a GOOD idea, as churchs can dispense aid much more efficiently than Bureaucrats), they have no right to instruct those churches who they may, or may not, use to dispense such aid.......
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I'm agnostic and I fully support the government funding faith based charities, based on their level of community service. These organizations can be more effective than secular ones.

Take the Salvation Army for example.

I think people are reading too much into Obama's statement.
 

Tyr

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Nov 27, 2008
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I'm agnostic and I fully support the government funding faith based charities, based on their level of community service. These organizations can be more effective than secular ones.

Take the Salvation Army for example.

I think people are reading too much into Obama's statement.

Wrong choice. The Sally Ann is a going financial concern and makes a consistent 30%+ PROFIT year after year
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Considering that the government just stated that any faith based institution was ineligible for financial stimulus money, I think Obama's taking a very 'anti-faith' stance. Too bad that his assertion that people shouldn't be discriminated against based on religion only goes one way.

"Funds may not be used for the "modernization, renovation, or repair of facilities--(i) used for sectarian instruction, religious worship, or a school or department of divinity"
Conservative Groups Declare Obama's Stimulus Bill a War on Prayer - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com
 

Tyr

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Nov 27, 2008
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Considering that the government just stated that any faith based institution was ineligible for financial stimulus money, I think Obama's taking a very 'anti-faith' stance. Too bad that his assertion that people shouldn't be discriminated against based on religion only goes one way.

"Funds may not be used for the "modernization, renovation, or repair of facilities--(i) used for sectarian instruction, religious worship, or a school or department of divinity"
Conservative Groups Declare Obama's Stimulus Bill a War on Prayer - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com

It's called "leveling the playing field"
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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After eight yrs of the Republicans pandering to the extreme to the religious right, Obama has decided that religion is not the be-all-and-end-all for qualification to help the disadvantaged (and make a healthy profit at it)

That's not leveling the playing field. That's just churning it up with a new shovel.
 

Tyr

Council Member
Nov 27, 2008
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That's not leveling the playing field. That's just churning it up with a new shovel.


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Obama: My faith-based office won't show any favoritism[/FONT] Agence France-Presse
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Published: Thursday February 5, 2009[/FONT][/FONT] WASHINGTON (AFP) — President Barack Obama warned Thursday that religion must not be hijacked by hate and intolerance, as he announced an overhaul of the former Bush administration's faith-based initiatives.

The new Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships is expected to advise the new president on domestic and foreign policy issues and to forge links with faith-based organizations overseas.

"The goal of this office will not be to favor one religious group over another -- or even religious groups over secular groups," the president said in a speech at the annual National Prayer Breakfast.

"It will simply be to work on behalf of those organizations that want to work on behalf of our communities, and to do so without blurring the line that our founders wisely drew between church and state."

Obama traces his own religious awakening to his days working as a community worker in Chicago and said that both secular and faith groups working to improve people's lives were vital in the deep economic recession.

"Few are closer to what's happening on our streets and in our neighborhoods than these organizations, people trust them, communities rely on them and we will help them."

Obama was set to sign an executive order in the Oval Office formally forming the advisory council later on Thursday.

He warned however that religion was often used to divide people, or as the cause of human discord or wars.

"Far too often, we have seen faith wielded as a tool to divide us from one another as an excuse for prejudice and intolerance," Obama.

"Wars have been waged, innocents have been slaughtered. For centuries, entire religions have been persecuted, all in the name of perceived righteousness."

As well as mentioning worshippers of all faiths, Obama, a Christian, also mentioned those who subscribe to no faith at all, as he did in his inaugural address two weeks ago.

Critics complained that former president George W. Bush improperly entwined the federal government with his own deeply held religious faith, threatening the separation of church and state enshrined in the constitution.

Bush's office of faith-based initiatives was set up to help religious and community groups carry out social projects with federal government funds.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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This is all rather silly. Catholic Charities USA provide food banks and food pantries,
soup kitchens, and other food services such as home delivered meals (just for starters)...but I guess the feds can't give them any money because they refuse to hire non-Catholic priests.

:lol:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Obama: My faith-based office won't show any favoritism[/FONT]

which is, as I pointed out, negated by the bill just passed that refuses financial aid to any educational institution that includes worship, no? Intent and action... they're two different things. The words in this article spell his intent, but the bill just passed represents Democratic action. Which is to be believed?
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
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Obama is right. Bush used religion to divide people and everyone is sick of it.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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which is, as I pointed out, negated by the bill just passed that refuses financial aid to any educational institution that includes worship, no? Intent and action... they're two different things. The words in this article spell his intent, but the bill just passed represents Democratic action. Which is to be believed?

That bill is supposed to stimulate the economy. Period. It isn't supposed to show support for religion. Anyone who thinks Obama is anti-religion hasn't been paying attention to him. He is very religious. He isn't a king or a dictator though. This bill has to get the approval of a lot of other politicians....
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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This is all rather silly. Catholic Charities USA provide food banks and food pantries,
soup kitchens, and other food services such as home delivered meals (just for starters)...but I guess the feds can't give them any money because they refuse to hire non-Catholic priests.

:lol:

One BIG difference: religion is a requirement of some jobs. They are allowed to only hire Catholics to be priests without losing out on government money because religion is a necessary part of their job description. They aren't allowed to discriminate against secretaries or teachers who aren't Catholic since religion has no impact on their ability to do their job.

I'm perfectly happy with that kind of rule. I work for a Catholic hospital and they made it clear in orientation that none of us had to be Catholic to be valued employees.