Internet Piracy

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
yikes - I've never heard of that happening to anyone before. Glad it was just a warning.

I have. I know one person that was downloading so much he had to get a commercial account for the extra bandwidth. He was warned many times and ignored it. He knew ISPs don't go after commercial accounts - they don't even monitor them. They will close a distributer though since that is illegal.
 

fubbleskag

noYOUshutup
Sep 10, 2004
398
5
18
Indiana, IN
www.speedofwood.com
Two contrary claims of fact, and not a single source cited. Tsk tsk.

Edit: My apologies Durka, I missed your link to Mr. Geist's blog; perhaps not a traditional source to cite in itself, but I bet Mr. Geist provides plenty of them. :)
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
... what about stuff that originally aired on TV - is that off limits too?

Technically, it's illegal, whether it is enforced or not I haven't a clue

You should read the copyright bill that Harper tried to table last spring...
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Two contrary claims of fact, and not a single source cited. Tsk tsk.

Canada deems P2P downloading legal

Downloading copyrighted music from peer-to-peer networks is legal in Canada, although uploading files is not, Canadian copyright regulators said in a ruling released Friday.

In the same decision, the Copyright Board of Canada imposed a government fee of as much as $25 on iPod-like MP3 players, putting the devices in the same category as audio tapes and blank CDs. The money collected from levies on "recording mediums" goes into a fund to pay musicians and songwriters for revenues lost from consumers' personal copying. Manufacturers are responsible for paying the fees and often pass the cost on to consumers.



The peer-to-peer component of the decision was prompted by questions from consumer and entertainment groups about ambiguous elements of Canadian law. Previously, most analysts had said uploading was illegal but that downloading for personal use might be allowed.



"As far as computer hard drives are concerned, we say that for the time being, it is still legal," said Claude Majeau, secretary general of the Copyright Board.



The decision is likely to ruffle feathers on many sides, from consumer-electronics sellers worried about declining sales to international entertainment companies worried about the spread of peer-to-peer networks.



Copyright holder groups such as the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) had already been critical of Canada's copyright laws, in large part because the country has not instituted provisions similar to those found in the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act. One portion of that law makes it illegal to break, or to distribute tools for breaking, digital copy protection mechanisms, such as the technology used to protect DVDs from piracy.



A lawyer for the Canadian record industry's trade association said the group still believed downloading was illegal, despite the decision.



"Our position is that under Canadian law, downloading is also prohibited," said Richard Pfohl, general counsel for the Canadian Recording Industry Association. "This is the opinion of the Copyright Board, but Canadian courts will decide this issue."



In its decision Friday, the Copyright Board said uploading or distributing copyrighted works online appeared to be prohibited under current Canadian law.



However, the country's copyright law does allow making a copy for personal use and does not address the source of that copy or whether the original has to be an authorized or noninfringing version, the board said.



Under those laws, certain media are designated as appropriate for making personal copies of music, and producers pay a per-unit fee into a pool designed to compensate musicians and songwriters. Most audio tapes and CDs, and now MP3 players, are included in that category. Other mediums, such as DVDs, are not deemed appropriate for personal copying.
Computer hard drives have never been reviewed under that provision, however. In its decision Friday, the board decided to allow personal copies on a hard drive until a fee ruling is made specifically on that medium or until the courts or legislature tell regulators to rule otherwise.



"Until such time, as a decision is made on hard drives, for the time being, (we are ruling) in favor of consumers," Majeau said.
Legal analysts said that courts would likely rule on the file-swapping issue later, despite Friday's opinion.
"I think it is pretty significant," Michael Geist, a law professor at the University of Ottawa, said. "It's not that the issue is resolved...I think that sooner or later, courts will sound off on the issue. But one thing they will take into consideration is the Copyright Board ruling."



Friday's decision will also impose a substantial surcharge on hard drive-based music players such as Apple Computer's iPod or the new Samsung Napster player for the first time. MP3 players with up to 10GB of memory will have an added levy of $15 added to their price, while larger players will see $25 added on top of the wholesale price.



MP3 players with less than 1GB of memory will have only a $2 surcharge added to their cost.



With a population of about 31 million people, Canada is approximately one-tenth the size of the United States. But Canadians are relatively heavy users of high-speed Internet connections, which make it easy to download music files. About 4.1 million Canadians were using a broadband connection at home as of the end of June 2003, according to U.K.-based research firm Point Topic. By comparison, U.S. cable and DSL (digital subscriber line) subscribers totaled 22.7 million at the end of September, according to Leichtman Research Group.



Canada has already raised the hackles of some copyright holders through its reluctance to enact measures that significantly expand digital copyright protection, as the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) has done in the United States. As a result, Canada could become a model for countries seeking to find a balance between protecting copyright holders' rights and providing consumers with more liberal rights to copyrighted works. For now, it remains unclear how other countries might be influenced by Friday's ruling.



Geist said he believes the tariff decision could be just the tip of the iceberg for hardware makers, as Canadian regulators grapple with the full implications of the policy. Other devices, including PCs, may eventually be brought under the tariff scheme, he predicted.



"Given that they've made a strong stand on (peer-to-peer matters), if the policy remains the same, there's little choice but to move ahead on personal computers," Geist said.



However, a representative of the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC), the group of music copyright holders that typically petitions for new media types to be added to the list, said computers were not on its agenda.



"We have never sought a levy on computer hard drives and do not intend to do so in the future," Lucie Beaucheni, vice chair of the CPCC, said.



Source at top.
 

Adriatik

Electoral Member
Oct 31, 2008
125
3
18
Montreal
Paying for a communication service does not entitle you to copyrighted works. I'm far from a saint when it comes to downloading pirated whatever but I don't delude my self into think I am owed it because I pay for my internet. Your logic is pretty messed up.

You realize your ISP will terminate your service if they get complaints from the copyright holders? These companies actively pursue downloaders via companies like media Sentry, which have various ways of busting the average idiot.

You didn't save any money as you probably would have never bought those songs/movies games etc. Did you spend tens of thousands of dollars previously on goods likw that prior to stealing them?


Whether or not it's copyrighted or not, I'm not redistributing the material. I am keeping it for me. Even if I have the material, try finding the hard drive I store it on, try finding where I downloaded it from. What if I wasn't using my ISP connection to download all the content? The reality is that no one will take the time and pay the money that's required to trace me for having 1 copy of their material.

The record producers are the ones making massive profits so I don't fill one ounce of guilt.

And when I say that I pay for my internet and all, what I mean is that I pay money to have FULL access to the Internet and all its content. So by paying a fee for Internet, I am ENTITLED to all its accessible content.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
Not legal but not illegal which is why cases keep getting thrown out of court. It is a case of fair use.

Fair use primarily has to do with material you own or for rfesearch purposes. I don't believe theft is covered.

Here is a slideshow from Michael Geist about "Fair Dealing" in Canada
The Case for Fair Use in Canada - SlideShare

Fair dealing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It then establishes six principal criteria for evaluating fair dealing.
  1. The Purpose of the Dealing Is it for research, private study, criticism, review or news reporting? It expresses that "these allowable purposes should not be given a restrictive interpretation or this could result in the undue restriction of users' rights."
  2. The Character of the Dealing How were the works dealt with? Was there a single copy or were multiple copies made? Were these copies distributed widely or to a limited group of people? Was the copy destroyed after its purpose was accomplished? What are the normal practices of the industry?
  3. The Amount of the Dealing How much of the work was used? What was the importance of the infringed work? Quoting trivial amounts may alone sufficiently establish fair dealing. In some cases even quoting the entire work may be fair dealing.
  4. Alternatives to the Dealing Was a "non-copyrighted equivalent of the work" available to the user? Could the work have been properly criticized without being copied?
  5. The Nature of the Work Copying from a work that has never been published could be more fair than from a published work "in that its reproduction with acknowledgement could lead to a wider public dissemination of the work - one of the goals of copyright law. If, however, the work in question was confidential, this may tip the scales towards finding that the dealing was unfair."
  6. Effect of the Dealing on the Work Is it likely to affect the market of the original work? "Although the effect of the dealing on the market of the copyright owner is an important factor, it is neither the only factor nor the most important factor that a court must consider in deciding if the dealing is fair." A statement that a dealing infringes may not be sufficient, but evidence will often be required.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
Whether or not it's copyrighted or not, I'm not redistributing the material. I am keeping it for me. Even if I have the material, try finding the hard drive I store it on, try finding where I downloaded it from. What if I wasn't using my ISP connection to download all the content? The reality is that no one will take the time and pay the money that's required to trace me for having 1 copy of their material.

The record producers are the ones making massive profits so I don't fill one ounce of guilt.

And when I say that I pay for my internet and all, what I mean is that I pay money to have FULL access to the Internet and all its content. So by paying a fee for Internet, I am ENTITLED to all its accessible content.

I could care less what you download, don't delude your self into thinking you're some kind of Internet Robin Hood though. Companies will take the time and money and they will harrass your ISP for infringing their copyrights, more likely then not, nothing will be done about it but I have worked for ISP's and we used to get cease and desist letters from media firms all the time.

You don't get access to all the internets content because you pay $40 a month to an ISP, you are entitled to what you pay for, anything else you do at your own risk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fubbleskag

Adriatik

Electoral Member
Oct 31, 2008
125
3
18
Montreal
including child porn?

Edit: Scott, thanks for the cite, btw.



well sorry I am not one of those sick bastards that like child porn...

Child porn is a real problem that needs to be stopped while producers losing small percentages of their profits is not a big deal...

Let's not mix apples and oranges...
 

Poquas

New Member
Feb 28, 2008
21
0
1
I use Frostwire or Limewire on a regular basis to download music and TV shows that have already been broadcast in the US and can't be viewed here without going through a proxy.

In Canada it's not illegal to download anything

...yet.

Bill 51 (I think) died when the election was called. There'll be another attempt to bring it back in this session, but the interest in passing it has dropped off a bit.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
120
63
52
i think you will find it is very illegal in Canada.....but I could be wrong.....

I believe the first person was recently charged with piracy for downloading movies. I think they bowed to the pressure from the music/movie studios and are moving towards making downloading both types of media 100% illegal(except from the sites where you pay money to download them).

I believe I saw this on msn.ca but I cannot recall the date. I just got finished a wonderful 12 hour shift, so my brain is a little addled.;-)
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Fair use primarily has to do with material you own or for rfesearch purposes. I don't believe theft is covered.


Theft is where you take someones property. If I copy a song or download a song I have taken nothing. It is not theft.

If I take that same property I downloaded and sell it then I have stolen as that money belongs to the original owner not me.
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
63
Toronto
Theft is where you take someones property. If I copy a song or download a song I have taken nothing. It is not theft.

If I take that same property I downloaded and sell it then I have stolen as that money belongs to the original owner not me.

This is what "fair dealing" covers in Canada.
Copyright Board of Canada : Copyright Act


In regards to computer programs

Copyright Board of Canada : Copyright Act

Computer Programs​
30.6 It is not an infringement of copyright in a computer program for a person who owns a copy of the computer program that is authorized by the owner of the copyright to
(a) make a single reproduction of the copy by adapting, modifying or converting the computer program or translating it into another computer language if the person proves that the reproduced copy is
(i) essential for the compatibility of the computer program with a particular computer,
(ii) solely for the person's own use, and
(iii) destroyed immediately after the person ceases to be the owner of the copy; or
(b) make a single reproduction for backup purposes of the copy or of a reproduced copy referred to in paragraph (a) if the person proves that the reproduction for backup purposes is destroyed immediately when the person ceases to be the owner of the copy of the computer program.
1997, c. 24, s. 18.


In regards to downloading music, the only reason why it's a grey area right now is due to the following: Private Copying - Part VIII of the Canadian Copyright Act. This does not apply to movies or computer programs.


Copyright Board of Canada : Copyright Act



Levy on Blank Audio Recording Media
82. (1) Every person who, for the purpose of trade, manufactures a blank audio recording medium in Canada or imports a blank audio recording medium into Canada
(a) is liable, subject to subsection (2) and section 86, to pay a levy to the collecting body on selling or otherwise disposing of those blank audio recording media in Canada; and
(b) shall, in accordance with subsection 83(8), keep statements of account of the activities referred to in paragraph (a), as well as of exports of those blank audio recording media, and shall furnish those statements to the collecting body.
 

Adriatik

Electoral Member
Oct 31, 2008
125
3
18
Montreal
whether you like child porn is not the question - are you entitled to it because you pay for your internet service?

Well we have to be careful here. Regardless of what people are accessing online, yes they are entitled to having access to it. In this case, possessing child porn is illegal but it's still legal for someone to access its public location.