Does God exist?

[MHz]

not my !!!

just the god

That I can understand and also agree with. You have to realize that some on this board will twist things to make a 'quote' appear to say what they want it to say, rather than just read and understand.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

So was that a quote from Jesus? If not, and it could not have been, then it would apply to Gentiles in the OT, sort of like a history of the Gentiles before Christ.

I didn't say it was a quote from Jesus...you're the one who's rudely jumped into this without knowing what the **** we were talking about...

On that note, I'd like you to tell me what exactly Jesus meant by the Parable of Minas from Luke 19

11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.

17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.

19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:

21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.

22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?

24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.

25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

The parables were metaphors to help instruct people in Jesus teachings...

So what does this particular metaphor mean?

To me, and many others, it seems that Jesus is saying that those that accept his grace should go out and preach his words and great things will come of it according to how well they do at gathering people to his ministry...but that the unbelievers, or those that pretend to be believers, should be brought before him and killed...

What's your take on it MHz?

Now if you would like to have some more info on this sort of belief then check out what those who follow the Torah have to say about Christians and other Gentiles.

No thanks, I just ate...
uke:

Now for the atheists, is a 'Christian' who does not follow Christ's two (easy to understand) Laws a 'Christian' or an 'Atheist'?

So anyone that's not a christian is an atheist?

That's got to be the most moronic statement I've read in a long time...

Do you always need somebody to do your 'homework' for you?

Do you always need someone to do your 'thinking' for you?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

So science was able to do some CSI test that show Adam and Eve are not related, how very interesting.

Well maybe you'd like to explain to us where Cain, Able and Seth's wives came from...because the bible certainly doesn't say...

Didn't somebody go around the world quite recently and do that very thing (DNA samples) that show we really are quite closely related (I wouldn't swear to this as it was a case of looking for true Jews)

Well that only confirms our evolution as a species...

 

[SirJosephPorter]

What if God is the strength to get out of bed on one of those mornings when pain would prefer you stayed laying down? ...or the patience to sit out feeding mosquitoes in a weedy bay because you just know the perfect bass is being tempted by your spoon? ...or the dedication to endlessly scan thousands of identical microbes on a slide for that one that might be the cure for cancer? ...or the vigilance to remain bent over an eyepiece for endless hours peering into the deepness of space for a changed light pattern that might be a new star? Would God exist?

In a word, yes. If you define God that way, there may be something to it. However, that is not the conventional definition of God. That is not the God as defined by most religions.

According to Christianity or Islam, God is an anthropomorphic entity (‘God created man in his image’, or as I like to paraphrase it, man created God in his image), male in gender, who looks after the most minute, the tiniest of happenings in the entire universe; he rewards the believers and punished the nonbelievers.

That is the traditional definition of God. In this sense, God most certainly does not exist; at least there is no evidence for it.

What you are talking about is the pantheistic version of God. Pantheistic version (also espoused by Hinduism) says that God is everywhere; he is in each flower, in each leaf, each stone, in the mountains, in the stream etc.

I don’t think any self respecting Muslim or Christian will be satisfied with this version of God.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

In a word, yes. If you define God that way, there may be something to it. However, that is not the conventional definition of God. That is not the God as defined by most religions.

According to Christianity or Islam, God is an anthropomorphic entity (‘God created man in his image’, or as I like to paraphrase it, man created God in his image), male in gender, who looks after the most minute, the tiniest of happenings in the entire universe; he rewards the believers and punished the nonbelievers.

That is the traditional definition of God. In this sense, God most certainly does not exist; at least there is no evidence for it.

What you are talking about is the pantheistic version of God. Pantheistic version (also espoused by Hinduism) says that God is everywhere; he is in each flower, in each leaf, each stone, in the mountains, in the stream etc.

I don’t think any self respecting Muslim or Christian will be satisfied with this version of God.

042.011

Sahih International: [He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir

(9. Or have they taken protecting friends besides Him But Allah --- He Alone is the protector. And He Who gives life to the dead, and He is Able to do all things.) (10. And in whatsoever you differ, the decision thereof is with Allah. Such is Allah, my Lord in Whom I put my trust, and to Him I turn in repentance.) (11. The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also) mates. By this means He creates you. There is nothing like Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.) (12. To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth. He enlarges provision for whom He wills, and straitens. Verily, He is the All-Knower of everything.)

According to Christianity or Islam, God is an anthropomorphic entity (‘God created man in his image’, or as I like to paraphrase it, man created God in his image), male in gender,

that not In islam

 

[Vanni Fucci]

that not In islam

Oh well...Islam must be correct then...:roll:

 

[Scott Free]

Scott free, I agree with you here. As I said before, I am an Atheist; I don’t think there is a God. However, there is such a thing as collective consciousness.

Do you have any proof of that?

After examining the evidence I decided Jung was wrong. What he confused as collective consciousness was the set of norms that make up a society. He was assuming something metaphysical because of a perceived communality - putting the cart in front of the horse if you will. I prefer the idea of memes because it places the cart behind the horse which is imperative if we ever hope to get anywhere.

So god is only a meme passed between people through generations. Generally speaking it is a disease forced onto the young and once their infection is properly set in they can then spread it to their young. I see nothing to imply anywhere that god is made a reality by this.

Even in the minds of the infected god is only a passed on meme to be modified and built on as needed by perceived necessity; the apologetic keepers of the meme, if you please, add to it so that the infection may survive. From this system we see religion grow and transform like a virus with an immune system, like a lancet fluke (Breaking The Spell, Daniel Dennett), but again, this does not mean the concept of god has any material reality just because some disease ridden group thinks so. Therefore god can have the look of something metaphysically real in Jung's term "collective consciousness" but is easily explained (and dismissed) in proper materialist terms.

God is a disease.

 

[ahmadabdalrhman]

Oh well...Islam must be correct then...:roll:

I do not have doubt


for my I believe 1000% islam is truth


but to non muslim ....??:roll:

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I do not have doubt


for my I believe 1000% islam is truth


but to non muslim ....??:roll:

Have you ever once considered that maybe you're wrong...

I know I have...

...but then I have the advantage of not being bound by faith to never question my beliefs on pain of eternal torment...

I can believe what I want, because there are no limits to the possibilities out there for any who keep their minds open to them...

 

[MHz]

Well maybe you'd like to explain to us where Cain, Able and Seth's wives came from...because the bible certainly doesn't say...

Why should I try and 'guess'? You can either go with everybody living a certain number of years (capped at 120 years for everybody but the ones mentioned as being different) and having that many children (100) then the population would blossom quite fast compared to death from wars and disease or whatever before that age was reached. I haven't tried putting all those names into a 'family tree program' but it would seem to say 'begat' quite often in the very early days. I think Seth's descendants ended up being the giants mentioned after the exodus from Egypt. If you could add 'others' in as 'step-whatever'.

Using Noah as the trunk and his 3 sons as the branches a decent looking tree might emerge (in terms of accuracy)

Well that only confirms our evolution as a species...

No, growth as one species, we are the same physically as far back as 2500BC (other than the gods of the egyptians, as they appear to be much bigger than everybody else. That would account for the giants that were from before the flood. How fast could they build those structures?) More than likely they were only myth by that time, myth because a flood took men away and when men came back they were all gone with only slight traces.
Larger people were also said to live north of egypt, how fast could they build if hired in the millions for a project that needed brute strength. The egyptians played host and took care of their room and board.

Sorry for butting in but.........

In a word, yes. If you define God that way, there may be something to it. However, that is not the conventional definition of God. That is not the God as defined by most religions.

Even that has to be further defined by the many different view with each different religion, sort of like evolution, but spiritual history as well as bodily, that is the likeness to God that mankind has (as well as the physical (head, arms, hands) image of God). There is spiritual growth but the body stays basically the same.

According to Christianity or Islam, God is an anthropomorphic entity (‘God created man in his image’, or as I like to paraphrase it, man created God in his image), male in gender, who looks after the most minute, the tiniest of happenings in the entire universe; he rewards the believers and punished the nonbelievers.

There would be no gender because there would be no marriages. Everybody would already be 'one flesh'. The real relationship is more like, one speaks and another one does. God and the Spirit are mirrored in a marriage, one is the boss and the other is sub-servent. Even the details God gives about Himself says He has several parts, a voice and reasoning (everything possible is accounted for in thought before the voice speaks) and then those words are made to happen in the physical world.

That is the traditional definition of God. In this sense, God most certainly does not exist; at least there is no evidence for it.

God doesn't care all that much about that tidbit. It's what comes after is what He is interested in.

What you are talking about is the pantheistic version of God. Pantheistic version (also espoused by Hinduism) says that God is everywhere; he is in each flower, in each leaf, each stone, in the mountains, in the stream etc.

That is just the setting for events to which they (flowers and stones) are the backdrop, the real action (God in motion) is elsewhere.

I don’t think any self respecting Muslim or Christian will be satisfied with this version of God.

Are you speaking for one, neither, or both choices?

 

[Scott Free]

Even that has to be further defined by the many different view with each different religion, sort of like evolution, but spiritual history as well as bodily, that is the likeness to God that mankind has (as well as the physical (head, arms, hands) image of God). There is spiritual growth but the body stays basically the same.

Again, this sounds more like a meme disease.

Bare in mind only 1 in 12 people raised in religion can escape it. It is a very powerful and often fatal social disorder.

Bare in mind also that while the infected would swear on their god and fight for him/her/it to the death that the only reason they believe in that particular god is that they were raised with it! How absurd that is?

 

[Scott Free]

Have you ever once considered that maybe you're wrong...

That's a great question!!!


Well ahmadabdalrhman, how about it? Have you ever considered that you could be wrong?

Because if you haven't then that is the same as being an unbeliever. How can you say you believe if you've never challenged your belief?

 

[MHz]

042.011

Sahih International: [He is] Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you from yourselves, mates, and among the cattle, mates; He multiplies you thereby. There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir

(9. Or have they taken protecting friends besides Him But Allah --- He Alone is the protector. And He Who gives life to the dead, and He is Able to do all things.) (10. And in whatsoever you differ, the decision thereof is with Allah. Such is Allah, my Lord in Whom I put my trust, and to Him I turn in repentance.) (11. The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He has made for you mates from yourselves, and for the cattle (also) mates. By this means He creates you. There is nothing like Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer.) (12. To Him belong the keys of the heavens and the earth. He enlarges provision for whom He wills, and straitens. Verily, He is the All-Knower of everything.)



that not In islam

The 1st quote would fit in quite well with the instructions given just when they were being exiled out of Eden.

(9) There was somebody brought back from the dead by a prophet in the mid OT.
(10)Prayer (ability for ask for mercy by each individual was given)
(11)Check
(12)Job is a fine example of that. Job was not from any of the 12 tribes, he was from Uz, making him a Gentile from the Nations.


All that seems to be have reference events that happened in the OT.

 

[MHz]

Again, this sounds more like a meme disease.

Bare in mind only 1 in 12 people raised in religion can escape it. It is a very powerful and often fatal social disorder.

Bare in mind also that while the infected would swear on their god and fight for him/her/it to the death that the only reason they believe in that particular god is that they were raised with it! How absurd that is?

Are you referencing any particular 'holiday'. Think any vet would would feel sorry for seeing traitors dealth with the way are are supposed to be. What more than money and fame can change that?
Isn't this the same disease you have been chasing for years and have still yet to 'catch'?:-(

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Why should I try and 'guess'? You can either go with everybody living a certain number of years (capped at 120 years for everybody but the ones mentioned as being different) and having that many children (100) then the population would blossom quite fast compared to death from wars and disease or whatever before that age was reached. I haven't tried putting all those names into a 'family tree program' but it would seem to say 'begat' quite often in the very early days. I think Seth's descendants ended up being the giants mentioned after the exodus from Egypt. If you could add 'others' in as 'step-whatever'.

Using Noah as the trunk and his 3 sons as the branches a decent looking tree might emerge (in terms of accuracy)

Giants you say?

But you've entirely evaded my question...so I'll be a little more succinct...

If god created Adam and Eve, and no others, and then Adam and Eve had their 3 sons and no others, then where did the wives for the sons come from?

And while you're at it, please offer some commentary on the passage I posted from Luke 19...thanks...

No, growth as one species, we are the same physically as far back as 2500BC (other than the gods of the egyptians, as they appear to be much bigger than everybody else. That would account for the giants that were from before the flood. How fast could they build those structures?) More than likely they were only myth by that time, myth because a flood took men away and when men came back they were all gone with only slight traces.
Larger people were also said to live north of egypt, how fast could they build if hired in the millions for a project that needed brute strength. The egyptians played host and took care of their room and board.

There you are on about giants again...there are no giants...never were...

Your idiotic view is unsubstantiated by anything we've observed...

Everything we know of our ancestors does not support your theory...we as a species have changed radically over the past 1.5 million years or so...

Human evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Models of human evolution

Today, all humans are classified as belonging to the species Homo sapiens sapiens. However, this is not the first species of hominids: the first species of genus Homo, Homo habilis, evolved in East Africa at least 2 million years ago, and members of this species populated different parts of Africa in a relatively short time. Homo erectus evolved more than 1.8 million years ago, and by 1.5 million years ago had spread throughout the Old World. Virtually all physical anthropologists agree that Homo sapiens evolved out of Homo erectus. Anthropologists have been divided as to whether Homo sapiens evolved as one interconnected species from H. erectus (called the Multiregional Model, or the Regional Continuity Model), or evolved only in East Africa, and then migrated out of Africa and replaced H. erectus populations throughout the Old World (called the Out of Africa Model or the Complete Replacement Model). Anthropologists continue to debate both possibilities, but most anthropologists currently favor the Out of Africa model.

[edit] Multiregional model

Main article: Multiregional hypothesis

Advocates of the Multiregional model, primarily Milford Wolpoff and his associates, have argued that the simultaneous evolution of H. sapiens in different parts of Europe and Asia would have been possible if there was a degree of gene flow between archaic populations.[53] Similarities of morphological features between archaic European and Chinese populations and modern H. sapiens from the same regions, Wolpoff argues, support a regional continuity only possible within the Multiregional model.[54] Wolpoff and others further argue that this model is consistent with clinal patterns of phenotypic variation (Wolpoff 1993).

[edit] Out of Africa model

See also: Recent single origin hypothesis

According to the Out of Africa Model, developed by Chris Stringer and Peter Andrews, modern H. sapiens evolved in Africa 200,000 years ago. Homo sapiens began migrating from Africa between 70,000 – 50,000 years ago and would eventually replace existing hominid species in Europe and Asia.[55][56] The Out of Africa Model has gained support by recent research using mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). After analysing genealogy trees constructed using 133 types of mtDNA, they concluded that all were descended from a woman from Africa, dubbed Mitochondrial Eve.[57]

There are differing theories on whether there was a single exodus, or several (a Multiple Dispersal Model). A Multiple Dispersal Model involves the Southern Dispersal theory,[58] which has gained support in recent years from genetic, linguistic and archaeological evidence. In this theory, there was a coastal dispersal of modern humans from the Horn of Africa around 70,000 years ago. This group helped to populate Southeast Asia and Oceania, explaining the discovery of early human sites in these areas much earlier than those in the Levant. A second wave of humans dispersed across the Sinai peninsula into Asia, resulting in the bulk of human population for Eurasia. This second group possessed a more sophisticated tool technology and was less dependent on coastal food sources than the original group. Much of the evidence for the first group's expansion would have been destroyed by the rising sea levels at the end of the Holocene era.[58]. The multiple dispersals models is contradicted by studies indicating that the populations of Eurasia and the populations of Southeast Asia and Oceania are all descended from the same mitochondrial DNA lineages. The study further indicates that there was most likely only one single migration out of Africa that gave rise to all Non-African populations.[59]

 

[Scott Free]

Are you referencing any particular 'holiday'. Think any vet would would feel sorry for seeing traitors dealth with the way are are supposed to be. What more than money and fame can change that?
Isn't this the same disease you have been chasing for years and have still yet to 'catch'?:-(

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking here?

I had been infected with the religion disease but I am happy to report that I am one of the 1 in 12 that has escaped :lol:

Neural pathways have been created in my brain that make me prone to wish thinking. I must ever be vigil. That being said however I don't know if I have more pathways than anyone else that wasn't infected with the disease. I am reminded of N-rays in this regard and realize anyone can become a wish thinker without even realizing it.

Perhaps I am lucky because I know of my vulnerabilities?

 

[MHz]

Giants you say?

Ni, what the Bible says, today a giant could be the owner of something. Egyptian art has lots of pictures of 'giants, you would probably call them god.

But you've entirely evaded my question...so I'll be a little more succinct...

It appears you have me...damn....

If god created Adam and Eve, and no others, and then Adam and Eve had their 3 sons and no others, then where did the wives for the sons come from?

...oh, wait...this is where they came from being as that genology given back then was for the boys only. All the good looking ones went quite early
Ge:6:1: .....began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Ge:6:2: the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

And while you're at it, please offer some commentary on the passage I posted from Luke 19...thanks...
The explanation is right there. At His coming He judges His own people first. To those that much has been give, much will be asked for when it comes to determining how many lashes are dealth out
Lu:19:26: For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Lu:19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Christ is such a fair Judge that judgment begins in His own house.

1Pe:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

 

[MHz]

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking here?

I had been infected with the religion disease but I am happy to report that I am one of the 1 in 12 that has escaped :lol:

Neural pathways have been created in my brain that make me prone to wish thinking. I must ever be vigil. That being said however I don't know if I have more pathways than anyone else that wasn't infected with the disease. I am reminded of N-rays in this regard and realize anyone can become a wish thinker without even realizing it.

Perhaps I am lucky because I know of my vulnerabilities?

If it is like some x-smokers, they shouldn't join in any conversations that deal with smoking in any form. Somebody might discover using tobacco as a 'smudge' to get rid of insects make that plant quite useful. If it is used to cause death in the first place then you should probably make sure you don't use it as food.

The thread is about the proof of God, and where are you?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Ni, what the Bible says, today a giant could be the owner of something. Egyptian art has lots of pictures of 'giants, you would probably call them god.



It appears you have me...damn....

...oh, wait...this is where they came from being as that genology given back then was for the boys only. All the good looking ones went quite early
Ge:6:1: .....began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Ge:6:2: the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Ummm...ok, but where did the daughters of men come from?

Still.haven't answered the question, so I guess I do indeed have you...

And while you're at it, please offer some commentary on the passage I posted from Luke 19...thanks...
The explanation is right there. At His coming He judges His own people first. To those that much has been give, much will be asked for when it comes to determining how many lashes are dealth out
Lu:19:26: For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Lu:19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Christ is such a fair Judge that judgment begins in His own house.

So you're not denying then that Jesus has called for the death of those that don't accept his rules...that's a start...

1Pe:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

In you're ****ing churches I'll wager...

 

[Scott Free]

If it is like some x-smokers, they shouldn't join in any conversations that deal with smoking in any form.

Really? I'm unaware of that rule. Link?

I would think it makes me more of an expert not less so since I can see both sides.

Somebody might discover using tobacco as a 'smudge' to get rid of insects make that plant quite useful.

You see, right here is a prime example where someone who knows the topic is of use, a smudge is better performed with sage as it keeps the insects at bay but also won't require smudges latter with no insects present as it isn't addictive.

If it is used to cause death in the first place then you should probably make sure you don't use it as food.

Certainly not! Tobacco is much better smoked.

The thread is about the proof of God, and where are you?

I really don't think this thread is about my whereabouts but if you must know I'm in BC.