Messiah
- Thread starter herald
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No, do not try and frame the question, I disagree that he was; that he existed at all. There is no evidence that he did except the rambling and contradictory stories as told by lunatics.
In the windstorms of the sometimes convoluted logic and arguments found on these
forums and throughout humanity, is the unbending Oak stronger than the flexible Willow?
In his own fundamental extremist way, herald has show himself to be an unbending Oak
open to no insight that doesn't already align itself to his already existing belief system.
Vanni Fucci, you have show yourself to be a man of intelligence and logic on this and
many threads, but not a whole lot of flexibility. What about the "what if" factor though?
I'm not a religious man by any means, and I'm not preaching, but just tossing out the
"what if" factor. I can't prove that Jesus of Nazareth ever existed (as a man and not as
the Son of a God), but I can't prove that he didn't either. Mulk may have a point. Karrie
may have a point. Even harold in a twisted way may have a point.
There are people born in Arkansas, who's time has come and gone in your lifetime and
mine, that neither one of us would be able to prove that they ever existed (or didn't) due
to a lack of written records right now...let along two thousand years from now.
I see where you might be coming from in that much of the horrors inflicted upon mankind
have been done in the name of one God or another. A poor justification indeed for the
craving of another's wealth. Extremists of any stripe make the short hairs raise on the back
of my neck. Some things, due to the passing of time and/or a lack of accurate records though
just can't be definitively proven, one way or the other. Thus the "what if" factor...
forums and throughout humanity, is the unbending Oak stronger than the flexible Willow?
In his own fundamental extremist way, herald has show himself to be an unbending Oak
open to no insight that doesn't already align itself to his already existing belief system.
Vanni Fucci, you have show yourself to be a man of intelligence and logic on this and
many threads, but not a whole lot of flexibility. What about the "what if" factor though?
I'm not a religious man by any means, and I'm not preaching, but just tossing out the
"what if" factor. I can't prove that Jesus of Nazareth ever existed (as a man and not as
the Son of a God), but I can't prove that he didn't either. Mulk may have a point. Karrie
may have a point. Even harold in a twisted way may have a point.
There are people born in Arkansas, who's time has come and gone in your lifetime and
mine, that neither one of us would be able to prove that they ever existed (or didn't) due
to a lack of written records right now...let along two thousand years from now.
I see where you might be coming from in that much of the horrors inflicted upon mankind
have been done in the name of one God or another. A poor justification indeed for the
craving of another's wealth. Extremists of any stripe make the short hairs raise on the back
of my neck. Some things, due to the passing of time and/or a lack of accurate records though
just can't be definitively proven, one way or the other. Thus the "what if" factor...
There are non, that I am aware of, with the absolute authority to judge souls and cast them into eternal fire if found lacking. There are non that walked on water, healed the sick, or were resurrected from the dead. Now, if there were a claim made of some such person from Arkansas, then whoever is making the claim better be able to back the claim up. They need even more evidence if they expect me to change my life because they believe such a man existed! Their belief (no matter how strong it may be) is no proof to me except that they are a silly wish thinker.
"There are none, that I am aware of, with the absolute authority to judge souls and cast them into eternal fire if found lacking. There are non that walked on water, healed the sick, or were resurrected from the dead."
I never said there was, and I agree with you. I'm not talking abut Gods. I am talking about men. Some things may never be proven one way or another, so don't dscount them outright. That was, and still is, my point. I'm not pushing relgion as I'm not religious.
Fanaticism, be it for or against something regardless of what can or can't be proven, is still fanaticism.
OK, so you mean there may have been a man named Jesus? I'll give you that, there may have been. In my opinion though, after looking at the evidence, it seems highly improbable that a man named Jesus that did any of the things claimed in the bible existed. Very, very improbable actually. So improbable that with the same confidence I can announce that I will never win the lottery I also can say there was no Jesus. I do not agree with some people here that say no matter how remote a probability is it still means it is possible. I think that is a fallacy. Once a certain amount of improbability is reached it becomes acceptable to say it did not or could not have happened. That probability is reached in the case of Jesus. He did not exist.
It is a fool that does not recognize that in all things he could be wrong. That is an assumed condition of the human experience. IMO it doesn't need to be expressed. Everyone sensible knows it. So it is also within that norm I can also say Jesus did not exist.
Other, older historical figures have been identified as having existed by merit of others writing about them...this is not true of Jesus...
This complete and utter lack of corroberating documentation is an indictment against the validity of the claims that Jesus existed as a man or god...
Were this not the case, then I would be forced to concede that Jesus, at least existed as a man, and I would...
But things being what they are, I go with what the evidence points to...
Bend but don't break my friend. I'm tired and off to bed. I usually avoid a thread that deals
with religion, as too many people have formed an opinion and aren't open to anything new.
I got sucked into this one tonight as fanatics, on any extreme, really p*ss me off. Oh well...
Good Night.
with religion, as too many people have formed an opinion and aren't open to anything new.
I got sucked into this one tonight as fanatics, on any extreme, really p*ss me off. Oh well...
Good Night.
This was beautifully said, s_lone! Exactly so, and the feeling is really exquisite when you manage to achieve that balance.
I think I've shown in other threads that I am reasonable and can break from pre-conceived notions when the situation warrants...I doubt that my mind will be changed on this particular subject though...
Good night then Ron...you are a fine counterpoint to our rabid fanaticism...:smile:
Good night then Ron...you are a fine counterpoint to our rabid fanaticism...:smile:
So are they Gods, or are they demons, in your beliefs? These are two quite different things, so probably you should make yourself more clear?
As for casting out demons - this saying of yours makes me laugh. Have you really done that? You mean, you saw a real demon, with horns and a tail, and smelling of brimstone, like they are supposed to in your religion? A real tangible demon you could touch and talk to? And so you got up, grasped your dog-eared Bible, and a glass of the holy water, and thus armed, faced the terrible foe with all the power of Hell to back him up? You are some Bruce Willis, then! :lol: A great story to tell kids at Halloween, but not very convincing to anyone older than 6.
Pagan Gods are no demons, Herald. They were here since the beginning of the times, long before a handful of people had invented Jesus Christ, and here they will be, long after he is forgotten.
Obviously the sincerity is missing, you might have to wait until your life is in deadly peril due to forces outside any control from yourself.
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Now that you have established that people go to the lake, do you have the finer details, like who actually ends up there?
I gave 2 examples so far. This one would not fit because it is about people being in hell rather than the lake. The angels are in there now and Satan will be there for the 1,000 years. That doesn't mean these people also fail at Judgment Day, they fail only on the 1st day of judgment (which gets them into hell), 1,000 years divide the 2..
M't:25:41: Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: