Messiah
- Thread starter herald
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Herald, can you supply the actual verse that supports your view on the lake, anything I have read indicates that the lake is certainly there but who actually ends up in it is quite limited, fallen angels certainly and whoever the man of sin is. That could very well be it even though there are 'possibilities' for men that might have 'no takers'. One example being those who blasphemy the Holy Ghost, a clear definition of what that actually is might be useful in determining if that is easily accomplished.
One very important aspect to the lake is that it is the punishment for sin after the second birth. That birth is not yet available to us.
Wouldn't a list of prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled also be appropriate.
The RCC isn't the best example of being the best law abiding Christians you can find and some of what they teach does not stand up to scrutiny. Lake of fire being one such example. Hell and the Lake are two different places.
One very important aspect to the lake is that it is the punishment for sin after the second birth. That birth is not yet available to us.
Wouldn't a list of prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled also be appropriate.
The RCC isn't the best example of being the best law abiding Christians you can find and some of what they teach does not stand up to scrutiny. Lake of fire being one such example. Hell and the Lake are two different places.
Oh, okay. Because all I heard him say was that historically speaking, there was a man named Jesus. He even went on to say that what or who Jesus was, is open to interpretation. 'self-righteous' kind of, erm, was missed by me.
"And the beast as taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him...these both were cast into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." Rev 19:20
"And the Devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire, and brimstone..." Rev 20:10
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." Rev 20:14
"AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE." Rev 20:15
"And the Devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire, and brimstone..." Rev 20:10
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire." Rev 20:14
"AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE." Rev 20:15
herald, almost anything in moderation is not a bad thing. Extremism in religion is just plain spooky
to the average guy like I picture myself as being. I'm reading what you're writing, and herald, I'm
sure you believe what you are saying is the absolute truth, but I'm picturing you in the same group
as other extremists using religion to justify forcing their belief systems on others. You know, the
guys with box-cutter knives on airplanes....that kind of religious extremist. You're kind of freaky.
So what happens herald if, through some quirk of fate or something, that one of the other MANY
religions happens to be the CORRECT one, and you've spent your life, through the "My Way Or
Death To Your Soul In A Lake Of Fire" sales pitch, you manage to recruit/intimidate others away
from whatever the CORRECT faith is, if it happens to not be yours? Where does that leave your
soul? If that's the case, hopefully for your sake it's not such a closed minded faith, eh? Good Luck.
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I have the Spirit of God within me.
And, with all due respect to the RCC, they have perverted just about every doctrine in the Bible. The Reformers were right, when they studied Daniel and Revelation and pointed to the office of the Papacy as the office of The Antichrist, or, "False Christ."
I spend time in Catholic forums, and I do not hesitate to contrast the teachings of the RCC with Scripture. There is no Purgatory in the Scripture, Jesus is our priest, there is no mass - He died "once for all." Mary called Jesus her "Saviour."Lu 1:47. If she was without sin, why would she need a Savior? The worship of Mary is Paganism, not spirituality. There is no Papacy in the Scripture...and on and on.
And, with all due respect to the RCC, they have perverted just about every doctrine in the Bible. The Reformers were right, when they studied Daniel and Revelation and pointed to the office of the Papacy as the office of The Antichrist, or, "False Christ."
I spend time in Catholic forums, and I do not hesitate to contrast the teachings of the RCC with Scripture. There is no Purgatory in the Scripture, Jesus is our priest, there is no mass - He died "once for all." Mary called Jesus her "Saviour."Lu 1:47. If she was without sin, why would she need a Savior? The worship of Mary is Paganism, not spirituality. There is no Papacy in the Scripture...and on and on.
My guidebook says these characters don't yet exist. They would be the ones from man that could get the closest to that fiery place as either the last defense for man or they escort the ones that fall into sin after Judgment Day has passed.
So herald....what branch (or off-shoot, or subsect) of Christianity are you yourself pushing? Where
do the other members of the Christian faith (not of your branch or subsect or whatever) fit into your
picture of eternal salvation? Do they also get to swim in the lake of fire?
That happens during the 3rd woe, it is part of the destruction of all sinners. The sinners from man are sent to hell, the sinners from heaven (fallen ones) suffer losses also, One being the Beast from the Pit, the 4 that rise from beneath the earth as the 6th trump are phase 2 in a 3 part operation.
The Devil is put in chains in a pit where men who are in hell (because they followed His ways )
Death and hell are empty of men at that point. The dead are those who were in a different list than those who become alive (the first to be with Christ, after 1,000 years these people are presented to God as 'already pure so they can act as priests (the whole of Israel who have been alive and hosting the Nations once a year) and those who have been alive from the Nations will act as Kings for the rest of the people from the Nations (Gentiles back to Adam)
Since this seems to be the most interesting it gets the longest answer. Here is an example of somebody on their way to the lake.
Re:14:8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Re:14:9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The fall of this Babylon is the last event before Christ, the warning is in effect for those who are alive at that time. They would be quite aware of the stakes at this point. Take the mark and spend 1,000 years in hell or die running from what is obviously very evil, you might not make it alive but you are raised from the dead instead of going to hell.
Err, my apologies to Karrie, and Mulk...
I was confusing your query against my responses to the fire and brimstone guy...
By expressing his views on a historic Jesus, Mulk has defined himself as a believer, is this not a reasonable assumption?
I don't really think it's a great assumption no. But maybe that's just me.
There's a difference between believing there was a man who lived and walked the earth and inspired people with his words and ways, and drew a following upon which other people built a religion... and believing that he was actually the son of god sent down to earth and resurrected, etc. *shrugs*
I disagree...basing a belief system on anything that can't be proven is foolhardy, and as has been seen throughout history, just downright dangerous...
You disagree... basing a belief system on something that can't be proven is fooldhardy.... but, I never said anything about it being wise to base a belief system on something uncertain. So, how did you manage to disagree with something I didn't even say?
What you said was there is a difference between believing Jesus was a man and Jesus was a god, and I said I disagree...
There is no differnce between believing Jesus was a man, or Jesus was a god...the point is irrelevant...
What's relevant is that a system of belief was based on man and/or myth and adherents to this cult have caused untold damage to societies throughout the ages...
Was there anything else?
logic and reason are subjective... and I never claimed to be a believer. I just suggested that a human being named Jesus of Nazareth actually existed at some point in history.
Logic and reason are not subjective...they are conclusions based on evidence that is testable and reproduceable...
Your suggestion is incorrect based on all available evidence...
ALL??? I guess if you choose to discount any evidence that you don't agree with. But a person who believes in science wouldn't do that???
what's the point. no matter what i may or may not post, you will simply say NO. I see your position. It's not one of an open mind. No point in wasting my time. The very fact that you insist that at no point in the entire history of the world, that nobody named Jesus walked the earth shows that you have no concept of considering other points of view. In fact, it is quite a ridiculous position to take considering it is 2008 and there is no possible way either of us can supply any "evidence" one way or the other.
People such as yourself, are actually quite sad. you feel the need to come into a thread such as this and post ridiculous assertions in order to simply be contradictory and get attention.
People such as yourself, are actually quite sad. you feel the need to come into a thread such as this and post ridiculous assertions in order to simply be contradictory and get attention.