"I will never leave Guantanamo"


JBeee
#1


By Sabin Willett
December 3, 2007
"WE HAVE important news for you!"
Chained to the floor of a cell in Camp Six, Guantanamo, Joseph said nothing. But he had some news for us, too.

The Court of Appeals had decided what record - what pieces of paper - it would examine when it considered his "Detainee Treatment Act" case. This was big. For months, we urged the Bush administration to release its exculpatory evidence about Joseph. The administration fought back hard. And we'd won - a brilliant victory!

"What do they say - these papers?" Joseph asked.

An awkward pause followed. We didn't exactly have them yet. The government had moved for reconsideration, filed affidavits, more briefs. There might be further appeals. It was complicated. The order came down in July, and now it was October. They hadn't produced a page. But it was a great victory!

Joseph listened in silence. During six years of US imprisonment he's heard this sort of thing before. All this talk from American lawyers about American courts - in Camp Six a man can't be sure that American courts exist at all, but if they do, it is certain that nothing ever comes of them but essays. No one alleges that Joseph was ever a terrorist, or a soldier, or a criminal. The military told him in 2002 he was innocent. Again in 2003. Again in 2006. He filed a habeas petition in 2005. He would be gone if the military could find a country to take him.

When Senator Joseph Lieberman and the other guardians of freedom in Congress stripped his habeas rights, he filed a Detainee Treatment Act petition. That was 11 months ago.
For two years and three months he'd been asking the federal judiciary to hear a few simple facts. No judge ever has.

"I also have something important to tell you," Joseph said. "About my wife."

What came next was deeply personal. (It is why I use "Joseph," a pseudonym for this good husband.) A Muslim, he does not like to speak to me of such personal things. But he had no choice. Camp Six is complete isolation. The men call it the dungeon above the ground. He is held alone in a metal cell, denied any contact with companions, books, news, the world - with his wife or child.

North Korea used this isolation technique against our airmen in 1952. We know a good idea when we see it, so the taxpayers paid $30 million to Dick Cheney's former company to duplicate North Korea.

The bunks had to be filled. Joseph got one. And so a message through me was the only way he could do his duty by her.
"I want you to tell her that it is time for her . . .. to move on."
"You mean . . .?"
"Yes. I will never leave Guantanamo."

His affect was flat, his voice soft. He looked up only once, when he said to me, urgently, "She must understand I am not abandoning her. That I love her. But she must move on with her life. She is getting older."

We are all getting older. Guantanamo is now far older than any World-War-II POW camp. Hope fled the sunless gloom of Camp Six long ago.

Joseph slips with the others down isolation's slope. He stands in the twilight. Beyond, the darkness of insanity beckons. He seems ready to surrender to it.

Somewhere in a file drawer in Guantanamo is a copy of the memo that clears Joseph for release. But it was written in 2006, and is as forgotten as he is. So the good husband did the last thing a man in isolation can do. He set his wife free from her husband's prison.

Not to worry, Joseph! Our federal judges are at their posts! They are making important rulings in your case - earnestly debating the important question of which pieces of paper to look at!

Sabin Willett is a partner at Bingham McCutchen, which represents prisoners at the Guantanamo prison.
 
gerryh
#2
and the silence is deafening.
 
JBeee
#3
Me thinks it won`t be long when that silence/indifference will be broken....hopefully sooner than later. Then stand back and watch them whine.....again, `what did we ever do to deserve this??`
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#4
How many other Josephs are there?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#5
The longer we accept torture the guiltyer we are?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#6
and we're pretty guilty already
 
Logic 7
Avatar
#7
and where are Colpy, toro and ITN on those issue?


oh i see, they are too busy to find article about how muslim are bad.
 
EagleSmack
Avatar
#8
Ahhhh... the innocent detainees. All were working for the Red Cresent building orphanages and helping the poor.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Ahhhh... the innocent detainees. All were working for the Red Cresent building orphanages and helping the poor.

Smack, buddy, breakfast genius and comrade, we usually wait till the trials over and the beak has spoken a quilty or a not. Why don't we give these unfortunates thier day in court? I sn't due process whatwe expect in democracys? How can a democracy deny democratic proceedure provided under law that your countrymen fight and die for this very day? Something stinks about that does it not?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Ahhhh... the innocent detainees. All were working for the Red Cresent building orphanages and helping the poor.

Smack, buddy, breakfast genius and comrade, we usually wait till the trials over and the beak has spoken a quilty or a not. Why don't we give these unfortunates thier day in court? I'm perplexed that the men and women of your nation who fight and die to preserve due process under law when that due process is denied others through institutions extrajudicial rien over the planet. When will you empathise with these detainees? I hope you won't wait till your afforded the position of a cell to contemplate, the legislation is in place. Now what are you having for lunch?
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#11
At least ES had the balls to respond. Unfortunately he had nothing meaningful to add.

I see no sign that the next group of people running the US will make substantive changes. These people will continue to use fear to convince us to allow them to take away basic freedoms and rights.
 
warrior_won
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Ahhhh... the innocent detainees. All were working for the Red Cresent building orphanages and helping the poor.

That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard! They aren't criminals! And your position that their incarceration is justifiable is based on what?
 
EagleSmack
Avatar
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by warrior_wonView Post

That is the stupidest argument I have ever heard! They aren't criminals! And your position that their incarceration is justifiable is based on what?

They are criminals. Look who wrote the article...she represents them! Do you think she will do anything but try to get her client off. Lawyers are paid to do that whether their client is guilty or not. These guys chose to pick up a gun and fight. They got caught. It was all fun and game and glorious jihad until they ended up at GITMO. Now they are all innocent victims. Is it a stupid agrument? I think not because they have a webpage and they are all described as innocent victims that were helping the poor and helping to build orphanges.
 
gerryh
Avatar
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

They are criminals. Look who wrote the article...she represents them! Do you think she will do anything but try to get her client off. Lawyers are paid to do that whether their client is guilty or not. These guys chose to pick up a gun and fight. They got caught. It was all fun and game and glorious jihad until they ended up at GITMO. Now they are all innocent victims. Is it a stupid agrument? I think not because they have a webpage and they are all described as innocent victims that were helping the poor and helping to build orphanges.


They are criminals? When did the trials take place? How is it everyone managed to miss that? Were they ALL found guilty? What was the sentence? What branch of the judiciary was used?
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
#15
Were the guys in Hanoi Hilton criminals?

Woof!
 
thomaska
#16
Hmmm..I wonder why no other countries want these guys?
 
EagleSmack
Avatar
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

They are criminals? When did the trials take place? How is it everyone managed to miss that? Were they ALL found guilty? What was the sentence? What branch of the judiciary was used?

You know what Gerry...that is a great point and I will retract the "criminal" accusation. See I unlike many will admit when I made a wrong statement. I will not spin it into something else and run away for an error that I made. So I stand corrected.

With that said...they are enemy combatants and they were caught. All of the rest of the statement/post I stand by.
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#18
Enemy combatants. That's hilarious. Which international treaty defines that? They were captured in war. That makes them POWs. Geneva conventions should apply.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Dec 7th, 2007 at 05:59 PM..
 
EagleSmack
Avatar
#19
So the Geneva Convention states that they should have a trial and representation? You are in a very gray area are you not?
 
thomaska
#20
Especially since what they were all training to do must fall squarely within Geneva Convention guidelines....
 
EagleSmack
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaskaView Post

Especially since what they were all training to do must fall squarely within Geneva Convention guidelines....

I suppose they would say that is irrellevant.
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#22
It is irrelevant.

If any of these people are guilty of war crimes, then take them to the Hague and let them face the ICJ.

If these people fought to defend their country against foreign invaders, then they are soldiers.

Whether or not these people deserve their rights or respect the rights of others is beside the point. We must respect fundamental human rights, because it is the right thing to do.

If we don't respect fundamental human rights, because they don't respect ours, then we are also criminals.
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

So the Geneva Convention states that they should have a trial and representation? You are in a very gray area are you not?

Actually it doesn't say that. They are to be held until the war is over. Technically its still going on. If the US called these people POWs, their indefinite incarceration without trial would have been on firmer legal ground.

Instead the US choose to invent their own classification system so that they could torture these people.

Quote:

FBI files detail Guantánamo torture tactics

Mark Tran
Wednesday January 3, 2007


Captives at Guantánamo Bay were chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor for 18 hours or more, urinating and defecating on themselves, an FBI report has revealed.
The accounts of mistreatment were contained in FBI documents released yesterday (pdf) as part of a lawsuit involving the American Civil Liberties Union, a civil liberties group....

...As of November 2006, out of 775 detainees who have been brought to Guantánamo, approximately 340 had been released, leaving 435 detainees.

Of those 435, 110 have been labelled as ready for release. Of the other 325, only about 70 will face trial by military commissions, criminal courts run by the US armed forces. That leaves about 250 who may be held indefinitely.

--

 
EagleSmack
Avatar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Actually it doesn't say that. They are to be held until the war is over. Technically its still going on. If the US called these people POWs, their indefinite incarceration without trial would have been on firmer legal ground.

Instead the US choose to invent their own classification system so that they could torture these people.

The poor things. Do you REALLY feel sorry for them or do you just despise the US that much? Are you the type that just glosses over when they saw someones head off and say...

"That was bad but what about GITMO!"
 
gopher
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#25
Every true American knows that one under trial is assumed innocent until proven guilty. These victims of Bush's terrorism haven't even been charged with anything.

Bush said he was inspired by God to invade Iraq.

But what would Jesus do with these victims of Bush's crimes?
 
earth_as_one
Avatar
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

The poor things. Do you REALLY feel sorry for them or do you just despise the US that much? Are you the type that just glosses over when they saw someones head off and say...

"That was bad but what about GITMO!"

I despise what America's leaders have done, not the US in general or the American public.

I believe most Americans would also despise their leaders, if they knew the details:

Quote:

CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons
Debate Is Growing Within Agency About Legality and Morality of Overseas System Set Up After 9/11

By Dana Priest
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 2, 2005; A01

The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.

The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.

The hidden global internment network is a central element in the CIA's unconventional war on terrorism. It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions....

--

Quote:

Secret World of U.S. Interrogation
Long History of Tactics in Overseas Prisons Is Coming to Light


By Dana Priest and Joe Stephens
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, May 11, 2004

...CIA employees are under investigation by the Justice Department and the CIA inspector general's office in connection with the death of three captives in the past six months, two who died while under interrogation in Iraq, and a third who was being questioned by a CIA contract interrogator in Afghanistan...

--

"died while under interrogation" is a nice way of saying "tortured to death".

How do you think Italians feel about this incident?
Quote:

ROME -- An Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 alleged American CIA operatives on charges of kidnapping a terrorism suspect in Milan and secretly flying him to Egypt without permission from Italian authorities, prosecutors in Milan said yesterday...

Quote:


--

Why the US brought this person to Egypt:

Quote:

Torture in Egypt is a widespread and persistent phenomenon. Security forces and the police routinely torture or ill-treat detainees, particularly during interrogation. In most cases, officials torture detainees to obtain information and coerce confessions, occasionally leading to death in custody. In some cases, officials use torture detainees to punish, intimidate, or humiliate. Police also detain and torture family members to obtain information or confessions from a relative, or to force a wanted relative to surrender.--

--

Its not just Italians who have legitimate beefs with the US. Canada has several cases like this:


Quote:

February 8, 2005 by The New Yorker
Outsourcing Torture
The Secret History of America’s “Extraordinary Rendition” Program
by Jane MayerOn January 27th, President Bush, in an interview with the Times, assured the world that “torture is never acceptable, nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture.” Maher Arar, a Canadian engineer who was born in Syria, was surprised to learn of Bush’s statement. Two and a half years ago, American officials, suspecting Arar of being a terrorist, apprehended him in New York and sent him back to Syria, where he endured months of brutal interrogation, including torture. When Arar described his experience in a phone interview recently, he invoked an Arabic expression. The pain was so unbearable, he said, that “you forget the milk that you have been fed from the breast of your...

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Likely the US is responsible for the illegal abduction and torture of hundreds of innocent people like Arar. Canada has apologized to Arar for its part in his mistreatment and torture. The US still refuses to admit it did anything wrong.

Habib was never even accused of committing a crime.


Americans should be embarassed that countries like China can legitimately criticize their country's human rights record:

Quote:

China Returns Fire on US Human Rights Abuses
by Ivan Eland
In its newly released annual report on the status of human rights around the world, the U.S. State Department disparages a long list of nations about their violations of individual freedoms. The report notes that countries in which power is concentrated in the hands of unaccountable rulers, whether totalitarian or authoritarian, continue to be the world's most systematic human rights violators. These countries include North Korea, Iran, Burma, Zimbabwe, Cuba, China, Belarus, and Eritrea.
"We are recommitting ourselves to call every government to account that still treats the basic rights of its citizens as options rather than, in President Bush's words, the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity," said Secretary of State Rice in releasing the report.
The authoritarian government in China gleefully responded to the U.S. censure of its policies with return fire on the Bush administration's abysmal record on civil liberties. Things are getting bad when an autocracy chastises a republic for its human rights abuses and the criticism has merit. The Chinese condemned U.S. practices of kidnapping, torture, and indefinite detention without the opportunity for legal challenge. They also pinged the U.S. government for increased spying on American...

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