Why we must remember the bloody cost of Waterloo

Blackleaf

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Attention! Attention!

Bernard Cornwell's book Waterloo was a NOVEL. It is a fictional account of Richard Sharpe in the Sharpe Series of which I've read every one. Cornwell is my favorite author... nevertheless it is a Fictional Novel.

Why would he depict the Prince of Orange as a bumbling, arrogant buffoon if that's not what he was like in real life (which he was)?


Got your azzes thumped at New Orleans fair and square.
After we already won the war. Too little, too late.

An excellent pictorial representation of the humiliation suffered by the British forces at the battle of New Orleans.



It's one thing being humiliated and suffering defeat in a battle, but quite another being humiliated and suffering defeat in a whole war.
 

captain morgan

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Quite right.

... And we all know who the super power is today, don't we?

Interestingly enough, the USA is also the greatest Naval power that the Earth has ever known, and will ever see again.

Yes, as you rightly identify, the US has definitely won the war
 

EagleSmack

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Why would he depict the Prince of Orange as a bumbling, arrogant buffoon if that's not what he was like in real life (which he was)?

Why would a Hollywood movie depict Matthew McConehey stealing the German coding machine?

Badabing!


After we already won the war. Too little, too late.

A lot and it cemented our victory in the War of 1812!




It's one thing being humiliated and suffering defeat in a battle, but quite another being humiliated and suffering defeat in a whole war.

The brits have yet to recover from such a humiliating loss.
 

Blackleaf

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Quite right.

... And we all know who the super power is today, don't we?

America isn't a superpower. It's merely the most powerful country of the Western partnership. It relies on allies in a way that no true superpower - like Rome and Britain - ever had to do.

Interestingly enough, the USA is also the greatest Naval power that the Earth has ever known, and will ever see again.
No. I disagree. The US commands nowhere near as much domination of the seas and the world's trade routes as the Royal Navy did.

Yes, as you rightly identify, the US has definitely won the war

No. The US lost the War of 1812.

Why would a Hollywood movie depict Matthew McConehey stealing the German coding machine?

Badabing!

Because you Yanks like to give yourselves credit for things that other people did.


A lot and it cemented our victory in the War of 1812!

You lost the War of 1812.

It doesn't surprise me you think that, though, because that's just what you get taught in your schools.


The brits have yet to recover from such a humiliating loss.


The War of 1812 barely registers on the British psyche, despite winning it.
 

EagleSmack

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America isn't a superpower. It's merely the most powerful country of the Western partnership. It relies on allies in a way that no true superpower - like Rome and Britain - ever had to do.

The brits have never done anything BUT rely on others to do the fighting! And read a history of Rome and you'll see that they relied on foreigners to bolster and fill their legions

No. I disagree. The US commands nowhere near as much domination of the seas and the world's trade routes as the Royal Navy did.[/quote}

All Oceans!



No. The US lost the War of 1812.

You're just salty because you got called out on trying to take credit for the victory at Waterloo when the true victors were Blucher and the Prince of Orange.

The brits were support troops at most.

The War of 1812 barely registers on the British psyche, despite winning it.

The Japanese do their best to suppress their loss in WWII much like the brits do with losing two wars to the US.
 

Blackleaf

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The brits have never done anything BUT rely on others to do the fighting!

Bull****. We won the Falklands War all by ourselves back in 1982. You have to go a long way back - if ever - to find a time when America won a war all by itself. America is usually defeated when it fights an enemy on its own.

And read a history of Rome and you'll see that they relied on foreigners to bolster and fill their legions
And that's normal for any true empire, but it's not the same as having an actual country fighting alongside you.

All Oceans!
You keep saying that. but it doesn't make it any more true. I pointed out several times yesterday that you are struggling to keep up with the Russian Navy in the Arctic.


You're just salty because you got called out on trying to take credit for the victory at Waterloo when the true victors were Blucher and the Prince of Orange.
The Prince of Orange was an arrogant, bumbling buffoon who only led I Corps at Waterloo to please his dad, King William I of the Netherlands, and it was his disastrous leadership which led to the deaths of many of his men.


The Japanese do their best to suppress their loss in WWII much like the brits do with losing two wars to the US.
Name the two wars that Britain lost to the US.
 

EagleSmack

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Bull****. We won the Falklands War all by ourselves back in 1982. You have to go a long way back - if ever - to find a time when America won a war all by itself. America is usually defeated when it fights an enemy on its own.

Nope... you needed help from the US to win in the Falklands.


You keep saying that. but it doesn't make it any more true. I pointed out several times yesterday that you are struggling to keep up with the Russian Navy in the Arctic.
The Russian Navy... although far superior than the RN... is a compilation of Cold War clunkers. They have nothing in the Artic that could stand against the USN

The Brits can't even defend their own channel.


The Prince of Orange was an arrogant, bumbling buffoon who only led I Corps at Waterloo to please his dad, King William I of the Netherlands, and it was his disastrous leadership which led to the deaths of many of his men.
The Prince of Orange along with Blucher are the Heroes of Waterloo.

Look at the monument to the Prince of Orange!


Compared to the brits monument



Name the two wars that Britain lost to the US.
The War of Independence and the War of 1812.

And that's normal for any true empire, but it's not the same as having an actual country fighting alongside you.

The briddish have always relied upon other nations to fight their wars and to save them from wars they started.
 

BaalsTears

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Bernard Cornwall characterized the Prince of Orange as a bumbler in order to make the fictional character Richard Sharpe look good. It was a literary device in a work of historical fiction.

PS: Did Britain accomplish its strategic objectives during the War of 1812?
 

EagleSmack

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Bernard Cornwall characterized the Prince of Orange as a bumbler in order to make the fictional character Richard Sharpe look good. It was a literary device in a work of historical fiction.

Exactly. Sharpe was assigned to the Prince of Orange by Wellington. He also found himself at Hugoumount.

It was Sharpe and his faithful sidekick Patrick Harper that shut the gate on the French at Hugoumount. The reality is that it was Cpl. Graham and three other officers that shut the gate.

Why would Cornwall have Sharpe and Harper shutting the gate? Was it because Cpl. Graham and the 3 British Officers were actually incompetent?

Why was Sharpe and Harper even at Hugoumount? Because of the incompetence of the Coldstream Guards?

BECAUSE IT IS FICTION!
 

Blackleaf

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The Falklands?.. A war?.... Really?

If it wasn't a war then what was it?

Nope... you needed help from the US to win in the Falklands.

The only "help" you gave the British was Reagan begging us to stop fighting the Argies. If the Yanks had had their way, the Falklands would still be in Argie hands right now.


The Russian Navy... although far superior than the RN... is a compilation of Cold War clunkers. They have nothing in the Artic that could stand against the USN
If that's the case, why is it that the experts are saying that the United States Navy is far behind Russia in terms of equipment in the Arctic?

The Russian Navy has loads of icebreakers and other equipment needed for the Arctic (in which half of all people are Russians), something which the Yanks are severely lacking.

‘US wants to catch up with Russia in the Arctic’


Get short URL
Published time: March 11, 2014 14:41


A helipad on the NS 50 Let Pobedy Arktika-class nuclear-powered icebreaker. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Filippov)



The US wants to play a leading role in exploring the Arctic but doesn’t have enough facilities or resources, and basically lags behind Russia, Edward Struzik, leading researcher of the Arctic region, told RT.

[The Russians] have ice breaker capability, they have naval bases, they are expanding their naval bases. I would say the Russians' road map to the Arctic is well under way and the US right now is simply acknowledging that they have got to catch up,” Struzik said.

?US wants to catch up with Russia in the Arctic? ? RT Op-Edge


The Brits can't even defend their own channel.
We most certainly can, and will whenever the need should arise.


The Prince of Orange along with Blucher are the Heroes of Waterloo.

Look at the monument to the Prince of Orange!
It's a monument which isn't deserved.

The War of Independence and the War of 1812.
You lost the latter, and you only won the former because we had more pressing concerns going on elsewhere so we let you win. Had the British really wanted to win that war they would have done. As it was, the American colonies just weren't deemed as important to Britain as some of her other colonies.


The briddish have always relied upon other nations to fight their wars and to save them from wars they started.
No. That's the Americans.

Bernard Cornwall characterized the Prince of Orange as a bumbler in order to make the fictional character Richard Sharpe look good. It was a literary device in a work of historical fiction.

It's difficult to write about the battle of Waterloo without touching on the noted historical figures involved. Napoleon and Wellington. Lord Uxbridge, Marshal Ney, and other noted military commanders. And one other, who if he could not be called a noted commander, did hold a command in the battle - William, Prince of Orange, later William II of the Netherlands.

The Prince of Orange was born in the Hague on 11 December, 1792, eldest son of William I of the Netherlands and Wilhelmine of Prussia. When he was two, allied British-Hanoverian troops left the Netherlands and French troops swept in to join the anti-Orangist forces. The royal family fled to England. William went on to study at Oxford and in 1811, at 18, became an aide-de-camp to Wellington in the Peninsular War. He became one of the close knit "family" of Wellington's aides, kick-named "Slender Billy."

In 1813, Billy returned to the Netherlands when his father regained the throne. In 1814 he was briefly betrothed to the Prince Regent's daughter Princess Charlotte, but Charlotte wasn't keen on either Billy or on living in the Netherlands and ended the engagement.

In 1815 when Napoleon escaped from Elba and returned to power in France, the prince was given temporary command of the Allied forces in the Netherlands until Wellington arrived from Vienna. Billy, who regarded Wellington with something akin to hero worship, was quite willing to relinquish command, but Wellington's relations with the prince's father were less amicable. Partly to mollify King William, Billy was given command of the I Corps, though he was not yet three-and-twenty. Young and untried as a commander, Billy ordered troops to form line rather than square three times over the course of Quatre Bras and Waterloo, exposing them to cavalry fire and crippling losses. At Waterloo, when the prince insisted that Baron Ompteda follow the order to form line, Ompteda looked at Billy as though he'd received a death sentence and said simply that in that case he would try to save the lives of his nephews, aged 14 and 15. Both the nephews survived, but Ompteda and dozens of others did not.



History Hoydens: Different Views of the Prince of Orange


PS: Did Britain accomplish its strategic objectives during the War of 1812?
Britain achieved most, if not all, of its objectives, whereas the US achieved none of its objectives. Not one. And all British territory that the US captured was handed back to Britain - which is evidence today in the fact that Canada is a part of the Commonwealth rather than a part of the United States.

In fact, during the Treaty of Ghent negotiations, not one American objective was even discussed, let alone granted.

I'm not surprised, though, that you Yanks believe America won the War of 1812, because that's what you get taught by your biased history teachers, who don't teach you actual history but teach you a slanted, pro-American version of history.
 

Nuggler

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Battle of Beaumont-Hamel

At 7:30 a.m., on July 1, thousands of British and French troops began their shoulder-to-shoulder advance across No Man's Land in broad daylight toward the German positions to open the Battle of the Somme. The result would be slaughter—more than 57,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers were killed, wounded or missing—the heaviest combat losses ever suffered by the British Army in a single day.
The sector of the front in Beaumont-Hamel where the 1st Newfoundland Regiment would see action was supposed to be taken by surprise, but the Germans knew the attack was coming. In addition, the initial Allied bombardment failed to damage most of the German defences




Ah those wonderful Brit generals.


Lovely the way Blacknuts re-writes history
 

BaalsTears

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...
Britain achieved most, if not all, of its objectives, whereas the US achieved none of its objectives. Not one. And all British territory that the US captured was handed back to Britain ...
All American territory captured by Britain was handed back to America. That's why Detroit is not part of Ontario.

- which is evidence today in the fact that Canada is a part of the Commonwealth rather than a part of the United States.

Today Canada and Britain are strangers, but Canada and America are brothers.

In fact, during the Treaty of Ghent negotiations, not one American objective was even discussed, let alone granted.

Return of American territory captured by Britain was discussed. The other American objectives had already been accomplished and so did not require discussion.

I'm not surprised, though, that you Yanks believe America won the War of 1812, because that's what you get taught by your biased history teachers, who don't teach you actual history but teach you a slanted, pro-American version of history.

That's not true. Americans realize that the young Republic achieved a stalemate with the world's most powerful empire of the era. That's why the young Republic survived to go on and spread across the continent.
 

Nuggler

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Attention! Attention!

Bernard Cornwell's book Waterloo was a NOVEL. It is a fictional account of Richard Sharpe in the Sharpe Series of which I've read every one. Cornwell is my favorite author... nevertheless it is a Fictional Novel.

As to one who makes so many posts of his disdain for Hollywood Movies I find this rather humorous you bring up a completely fictional account of Waterloo to support your ridiculous assertions.



Got your azzes thumped at New Orleans fair and square. The elite soldiers of the brittards had nobody to help them that day. No Prussians were there on Jackson's flank to save the brits that day.


The "Sharpe" TV series was quite good also. Bit too much of the cavalry coming just in the nick of time, but good anywho.
 

captain morgan

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That's not true. Americans realize that the young Republic achieved a stalemate with the world's most powerful empire of the era. That's why the young Republic survived to go on and spread across the continent.

This is most likely the point where there was a changing of the old guard for the new.

From that point forward, the American global presence, both militarily and economically, began to outstrip and overshadow the UK.

Britain never recovered from that point forward
 

BaalsTears

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Sean Bean was good in the role of Richard Sharpe.

This is most likely the point where there was a changing of the old guard for the new.

From that point forward, the American global presence, both militarily and economically, began to outstrip and overshadow the UK.

Britain never recovered from that point forward

Britain gave up hope of further expansion in the Western Hemisphere. From then on Britain was contented to gobble up pieces of Africa and to consolidate its position as a status quo power until the rise of Germany. In order to save itself from Imperial Germany, Great Britain was forced to turn to North America for succor.
 

EagleSmack

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Battle of Beaumont-Hamel

At 7:30 a.m., on July 1, thousands of British and French troops began their shoulder-to-shoulder advance across No Man's Land in broad daylight toward the German positions to open the Battle of the Somme. The result would be slaughter—more than 57,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers were killed, wounded or missing—the heaviest combat losses ever suffered by the British Army in a single day.
The sector of the front in Beaumont-Hamel where the 1st Newfoundland Regiment would see action was supposed to be taken by surprise, but the Germans knew the attack was coming. In addition, the initial Allied bombardment failed to damage most of the German defences




Ah those wonderful Brit generals.


Lovely the way Blacknuts re-writes history

My Grandmother's cousin was in the RNR and perished at Beamont-Hamel. He is the only one of our relatives that was killed in a war. My cousins son was wounded in Iraq.

The "Sharpe" TV series was quite good also. Bit too much of the cavalry coming just in the nick of time, but good anywho.

The Sharpe Series was good. I wish the series was made a little later in time so they could have made use of technology. Trying to duplicate Peninsular War scenes with a handful of reenactors left so much to be desired. Even Cornwall mentioned that in an interview.