Why Can't Egypt Feed Itself?

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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In answer why Egypt cannot feed herself is that Egypt's population has far outstripped the ability of her land to support herself. Just like Ethiopia, a once bountiful place turned into a wasteland by her people over the past 1000+ years or so. Might even happen to us someday. I once heard that the best thing we can do for these people is give them suitcases.

Full of fertilizer! :smile:
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I'm inclined to think the real reason Egypt, and most of the rest of the Third World, can't feed itself is because the people running those places are riddled with corruption, nepotism, and incompetence, and their people are woefully ignorant. I've spent some time in Egypt dealing with officialdom at various levels on behalf of the Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), and one of my brothers-in-law has spent a lot of time all around the Third World on behalf of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. This is admittedly only anecdotal, but what we've seen strongly suggests that most Third World governments are so staggeringly corrupt as to be beyond help, and most Third World people are so poorly educated that you can't explain to them what you're doing there.

CIDA once had a project to provide potable water in various places in central Africa, to provide well water to people rather than having them rely on parasite-infested surface water, and when the pump on a well broke down the locals blamed it on a demon in the well and would no longer touch the water from it. They went back to dipping out surface water for their drinking and washing, and walking many miles to get it, and continued to suffer high rates of parasitic intestinal disease. I've no clue how to deal with people like that.


Actually not so anecdotal. Check out the corruption index at this site. Corruption by country. Definition, graph and map.

There really is no clear solution to the corruption levels in developing nations other than time. Corruption is actually an ingrained part of the culture and is so institutionalized it is simply regarded as part of the way of life. I suspect over time such corruption will decline just as it declined in Western nations. If you want a real look at corruption just check out almost any European government during the 18th century including Britain and France. During that time period no one really expected government to operate in any other manner. Today we would be appalled by what was considered normal. I expect, and hope, that eventually developing nations will reach a level of maturity that will see the decline of institutionalized corruption.

So far as your story about the clean water problem in places like Africa; it is pretty much on the mark. Once again, there is no real solution other than time and education. One useful program that helped in this matter was instituted in a number of West African nations. Teams were sent into villages with microscopes to actually show the villagers what was actually in their water. It helped to a certain extent once the village elders were convinced that their "clean" water was actually full of creepy crawlies. The problem is that it takes awhile for such programs to reach everyone.

There was a similar problem in India during the 1950s and 1960s when an effort was made to eliminate smallpox through universal inoculation. Many villages resisted because they thought inoculation would insult the goddess of smallpox. It was a resistance that was gradually overcome. Education is the key and that takes time and money.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Actually not so anecdotal. Check out the corruption index at this site. Corruption by country. Definition, graph and map.

There really is no clear solution to the corruption levels in developing nations other than time. Corruption is actually an ingrained part of the culture and is so institutionalized it is simply regarded as part of the way of life. I suspect over time such corruption will decline just as it declined in Western nations. If you want a real look at corruption just check out almost any European government during the 18th century including Britain and France. During that time period no one really expected government to operate in any other manner. Today we would be appalled by what was considered normal. I expect, and hope, that eventually developing nations will reach a level of maturity that will see the decline of institutionalized corruption.

So far as your story about the clean water problem in places like Africa; it is pretty much on the mark. Once again, there is no real solution other than time and education. One useful program that helped in this matter was instituted in a number of West African nations. Teams were sent into villages with microscopes to actually show the villagers what was actually in their water. It helped to a certain extent once the village elders were convinced that their "clean" water was actually full of creepy crawlies. The problem is that it takes awhile for such programs to reach everyone.

There was a similar problem in India during the 1950s and 1960s when an effort was made to eliminate smallpox through universal inoculation. Many villages resisted because they thought inoculation would insult the goddess of smallpox. It was a resistance that was gradually overcome. Education is the key and that takes time and money.
Surprising results.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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"People don't like to work for free or waste their money. tick tick tick"

Why should they, there will be no policy gridlock, just do ya wanna eat? :)
Seriously though, the U.S. is tightening it's belt and the freebies will be harder to come by. Just look at all the internal cutbacks were experiencing.

There's still an attutide that the USA has to manage the world's food supply, it can't and it doesn't. Countries can cut off exports like Russia and other countries have done and there is no way to stop this. With food, the left and right are in unison like they are in unison over immigration.

In regards to food, the left says, "We must help and feed the world," the right says, "Sure, we will feed the world, pay us for it." One is humanitarian, the other pushes the profit motive. Problem is, I'm not gonna pay for it, these starving people are ruining their own country, want to fight each other, and are people who live in a subsistence economy and have no clue about the profit motive and increasing efficiency.

The key in economics is incentive and motivation. Economics is about pulling the string, not pushing it. In the third world we are attempting to push the string, and that is a recipe for failure, as happened and is happening in Ethiopia and dozens of other countries.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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There's still an attutide that the USA has to manage the world's food supply, it can't and it doesn't. Countries can cut off exports like Russia and other countries have done and there is no way to stop this. With food, the left and right are in unison like they are in unison over immigration.

In regards to food, the left says, "We must help and feed the world," the right says, "Sure, we will feed the world, pay us for it." One is humanitarian, the other pushes the profit motive. Problem is, I'm not gonna pay for it, these starving people are ruining their own country, want to fight each other, and are people who live in a subsistence economy and have no clue about the profit motive and increasing efficiency.

The key in economics is incentive and motivation. Economics is about pulling the string, not pushing it. In the third world we are attempting to push the string, and that is a recipe for failure, as happened and is happening in Ethiopia and dozens of other countries.

I am all for filling our empty granaries again using our food stuffs for us and stop feeding the world for free. Liberals cannot continually be giving away the store. What motivation does a Canadian or American farmer have today, nothing.

The United Kingdom can't feed itself either.

The United Kingdom once had a empire to feed itself. Now with its manufacturing and military complex it could offer protection and trade to some African countries who still have arable land to grow enough food for both of them. Not like China is doing (buying land to grow food only for themselves), but a real symbiotic relationship.
 

unclepercy

Electoral Member
Jun 4, 2005
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And the US is doing that?

I'm sick and tired of being turned to whenever their is a disaster, a food shortage, or other global problems. Let's take turns.
Africa is up for global relief for the next 10 years. Then, Iran. How's that? That's give the US a break to take care of our own
problems. And I'm sure once this custom gets started, other countries will be called upon. Australia, stand by.

Uncle
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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I don't know, I would think having an income equal to $2/day would play a (big?) role in the ability to feed one-self. Sort of like that song about a bucket with a hole in it
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I'm sick and tired of being turned to whenever their is a disaster, a food shortage, or other global problems. Let's take turns.
Africa is up for global relief for the next 10 years. Then, Iran. How's that? That's give the US a break to take care of our own
problems. And I'm sure once this custom gets started, other countries will be called upon. Australia, stand by.

Uncle

Iran does not need help and has never asked for it.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Iran does not need help and has never asked for it.
Drought stricken, Iran buys US Wheat for first time in 27 years

by Staff Writers
New York (AFP) Aug 25, 2008
Wracked by drought, Iran has turned to the United States for wheat for the first time in 27 years, marking a setback for Tehran's search for agricultural self-sufficiency.
According to a recent US Department of Agriculture report, Iran has bought about 1.18 million tonnes of US hard wheat since the beginning of the 2008-2009 crop season in June.
The number, which has been growing steadily all summer, already represents nearly 5.0 percent of US annual exports forecast by the USDA. The last time Iran imported US wheat was in 1981-1982.

Drought stricken, Iran buys US wheat for first time in 27 years
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Drought stricken, Iran buys US Wheat for first time in 27 years

by Staff Writers
New York (AFP) Aug 25, 2008
Wracked by drought, Iran has turned to the United States for wheat for the first time in 27 years, marking a setback for Tehran's search for agricultural self-sufficiency.
According to a recent US Department of Agriculture report, Iran has bought about 1.18 million tonnes of US hard wheat since the beginning of the 2008-2009 crop season in June.
The number, which has been growing steadily all summer, already represents nearly 5.0 percent of US annual exports forecast by the USDA. The last time Iran imported US wheat was in 1981-1982.

Drought stricken, Iran buys US wheat for first time in 27 years
Has the US ever caused any sanctions that would have interfered with irrigation programs (or food production in general), their mountains certainly get enough moisture that water could be captured to eliminate drought even in the worst of the driest of years.

Was the lost moisture the same stuff that caused flooding in Pakistan? Just curious as to the timing.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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Has the US ever caused any sanctions that would have interfered with irrigation programs (or food production in general), their mountains certainly get enough moisture that water could be captured to eliminate drought even in the worst of the driest of years.

Was the lost moisture the same stuff that caused flooding in Pakistan? Just curious as to the timing.
Timing for what? Iran started buying wheat in 2008.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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UG99 is causing serious havoc on African and Mid East crops.

Egypt Working on Ug99 Rust Disease Attacking Wheat




Ug99 rust attacking a wheat stem
photo courtesy of ScienceDaily.com

On 6 January 2010 SciDev.Net reported on Egypt's efforts to combat the Ug99 rust disease attacking it wheat crops. Egypt has developed the new Misr1 and Misr2 wheat varieties, which are rust resistant and higher yielding. Research was conducted by the Egyptian Agricultural Research Center in 2005 with funding from the Borlaug Global Rust Initiative (BGRI).

Egypt has already planted 40 tons of Misr 1 and Misr 2. From this total, Egypt has exported 1.5 tons to Afghanistan at no cost. Both countries are working with the International Maize and Wheat Improvement Centre (CIMMYT) in Mexico on this collaborative effort.

Ug99 was discovered in Uganda in 1999. It spread to Ethiopia, Kenya, Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran and Yemen.

For more see: Ahmed, Maha. "Ug99 is a major threat to food security," 6 January 2010.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Ancient agronomists have been battling plant diseases using the same methods that are used to today. Species diversification but we've lost 1500+ cultivars in the past 100 years. Luckily there are still many ancient varieties tucked away in remote areas that are being recovered. We've spread heavy producing disease vulnerable varieties far and wide as aid projects but in the process have eliminated disease and drought resistant cereal grains that in the long run we desperatly need to cross bred back into the new varieties to increase their resistance to diseases, drought and saline soils.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Nor is Iran known for its willingness, generosity, and helpfulness to other countries. Why doesn't Iran step forward to aid those in need?

Do you even bother to check any of your "facts" before you make a post or do you specialize in dancing on water?

PressTV - Iran to send 3rd aid shipment to Japan



The spokesman of Iran's Red Crescent Society (IRCS) says the Islamic Republic will send its third shipment of humanitarian aid to quake-hit Japan.


The third shipment will comprise of 50,000 tablets of Potassium Iodine upon the request of Japanese officials, Hossein Derakhshan told Fars News Agency on Sunday.

Demand for Potassium Iodine has soared on panic over radiation in Japan. The pills are believed to provide some protection against iodine radiation, which can cause thyroid cancer.

Derakhshan said Iran will have to source the pills from both domestic and foreign suppliers in order to provide them to quake victims in a timely fashion.

He said the pills would not leave Iran until this coming Wednesday as flights to Tokyo have been overwhelmingly busy following the March 11 earthquake.

Iran has already sent two consignment of humanitarian aid mainly comprising of canned food to Japan.

Iran was the first country in the Middle East to dispatch humanitarian aid to Japan.

On March 11, an 8.9-magnitude earthquake, off the northeast coast of Japan's main island, unleashed a 23-foot (7-meter) tsunami and was followed by more than 50 aftershocks for hours. Almost 28,000 people are feared dead in the disaster.

The quake is now considered to be Japan's deadliest natural disaster since the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake, which claimed the lives of more than 142,000 people.


Iran sends aid for tsunami victims By Our Staff Reporter


HYDERABAD, DEC. 27. The Iran Government has sent $1.2 million worth food items to the victims of the tsunami in the country, the Consulate General of Islamic Republic of Iran in India, Hossein Ravesh, said here on Monday.
"The relief, including clothes, water cooling kits and blankets will be handed over to the Indian Red Cross Society shortly by the Red Crescent of the Islamic Republic of Iran," he said.
Expressing deep shock at the loss of lives and the havoc wrought by the tidal wave, he offered his heart-felt condolences to members of the bereaved families, on behalf of the Iranian people.
The Shree Swaminarayan Gurukul Trust has appealed to people to come to the rescue of tsunami victims by donating money, rice, what, oil, clothes and blankets.
Those interested can contact the helpline numbers 98852 80801, 9347035289 or 98854 17321.