Why Americans should give thanks for the British Empire

EagleSmack

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British ingenuity... like Operation Market Garden. What an utter failure by an arrogant Brit General. Monty should have been sacked.

Face it... we saved your dismal island.

"To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. "

Not British ingenuity, not surviving the Battle of Britain... but having the Americans at his side was British PM Churchill's greatest joy.
 

Blackleaf

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British ingenuity... like Operation Market Garden. What an utter failure by an arrogant Brit General. Monty should have been sacked.

It was no more of a failure than America's Operation Sledgehammer would have been had we not decided instead to ignore the Americans and participate in Britain's successful Operation Torch in French North Africa instead. In fact, had the Allies gone ahead with America's plan of Operation Sledgehammer - to invade Occupied Europe as soon as possible - rather than Britain's Operation Torch it would have made Operation Market Garden and the Dieppe Raid look like a teddy bear's picnic. Yet the Americans and the Soviets were keen to carry out Sledgehammer rather than Torch. Thankfully, we didn't go ahead with it.


Face it... we saved your dismal island.
No, you didn't. Like in WWI you arrived late on the scene after other countries, such as the British, has spent years putting in the hard graft, and you only did so after being caught by surprise at Pearl Harbor, with half your navy sitting ducks. The Americans, despite what Hollywood says, saved nobody in WWII.


Not British ingenuity, not surviving the Battle of Britain... but having the Americans at his side was British PM Churchill's greatest joy.
Had the British lost the Battle of Britain, WWII would likely have been lost.

No victory in the Battle of Britain by Britain = No D-Day. No D-Day - and the brilliant BRITISH plan called Operation Fortitude, yet another British plan met by skepticism from the Yanks yet which turned out be a huge success in the conflict, turning the tide against the Axis Powers - would have meant no victory in WWII.

Operation Fortitude was the greatest deception in history, to keep the Germans guessing first about where the D-Day invasion would come, and later about whether another landing would follow elsewhere.

Operation Fortitude, thought up by the British, required collaboration between the code decrypters of Bletchley Park (those British heroes whose codebreaking work helped shorten the war), the MI5 officers controlling German double-agents in Britain, the RAF’s reconnaissance squadrons and thousands of army signals personnel impersonating dummy units, which were used to deceive the Germans on troop positions. It worked brilliantly: Hitler kept vital forces in the Pas-de-Calais — well to the north of the Normandy beaches — until August, amid his high command’s chronic uncertainty about what the Allies might do next. Yet Operation Fortitude would never have gone ahead had the Yanks had their way.

Remember that D-Day itself was an overwhelmingly British-led operation. The operational plan for D-Day was overwhelmingly Monty’s. He directed both the landings and subsequent campaign ashore. Even most of his critics conceded that nobody else could have done it better, from the moment early in 1944 when he insisted that the number of troops attacking on the first day should be doubled, whatever the difficulties about finding extra shipping to carry them.
 
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EagleSmack

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It was no more of a failure than America's Operation Sledgehammer would have been had we not decided instead to ignore the Americans and participate in Britain's successful Operation Torch in French North Africa instead. In fact, had the Allies gone ahead with America's plan of Operation Sledgehammer - to invade Occupied Europe as soon as possible - rather than Britain's Operation Torch it would have made Operation Market Garden and the Dieppe Raid look like a teddy bear's picnic. Yet the Americans and the Soviets were keen to carry out Sledgehammer rather than Torch. Thankfully, we didn't go ahead with it.

There was no Operation Sledgehammer.

The US bailed the Brits out of N. Africa.

The US was in charge of the Normandy invasions.

There was however a Dieppe and an Operation Market Garden. Both of which were Briddish ideas and complete disasters.


No, you didn't. Like in WWI you arrived late on the scene after other countries, such as the British, has spent years putting in the hard graft, and you only did so after being caught by surprise at Pearl Harbor, with half your navy sitting ducks. The Americans, despite what Hollywood says, saved nobody in WWII.
Saved your butts in WWI too!

The Japanese caught the Brits by surprise too and drove your sorry azzes out of the Pacific! The brits didn't return until 1945 and after the US drove the Japanese back to their home islands.


Had the British lost the Battle of Britain, WWII would likely have been lost.
Don't be silly. Your island was ripe for the picking and what saved the Brits was Hitler invading the Soviet Union.

Air battles over the Pacific were a daily occurrence. Even the Soviets scoffed at those handful of dog fights that the brits in their pompous arrogance called a battle. It was a sideshow worthy of a foot note.

Remember that D-Day itself was an overwhelmingly British-led operation. The operational plan for D-Day was overwhelmingly Monty’s. He directed both the landings and subsequent campaign ashore. Even most of his critics conceded that nobody else could have done it better, from the moment early in 1944 when he insisted that the number of troops attacking on the first day should be doubled, whatever the difficulties about finding extra shipping to carry them.
D-Day was led by US General Eisenhower.

Monty should have been sacked. He was the worse general in WWII.
 

petros

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The US bailed the Brits out of N. Africa.
Canadians played a massive role in chasing Rommel across the desert and pounded the snot out of the Nazis in Italy. Canadians had to stand down to let the Americans take Rome for propaganda and morale.
 

EagleSmack

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Canadians played a massive role in chasing Rommel across the desert and pounded the snot out of the Nazis in Italy. Canadians had to stand down to let the Americans take Rome for propaganda and morale.

We wanted to beat the Canadians to Rome because we heard it was "All the Pizza and Spaghetti You Can Eat Night".
 

Cliffy

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To all those who think British colonialism was benign and benevolent,
that we have nothing to apologize for,
and those who seem to think the empire was some kind of altruistic venture for which the former colonized should be grateful......
A quick reminder of one of the many reasons that the colonized don't share your rosy tinted view... - Laurie Kwame Richardson
 

JLM

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As we Americans celebrate on this day of gluttony, football, and prayer (not necessarily in that order), we might offer up thanks for the institution that gave us our glorious traditions of liberty and prosperity. That institution would be the British Empire, which not only put us here, but gave us Christianity, limited government, and a system of rights founded in British common law. Somehow many of us tend to overlook that.



Why We Should Give Thanks for the British Empire | The American Spectator

You should give up telling people sick jokes! They are not funny.
 

Blackleaf

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To all those who think British colonialism was benign and benevolent,
that we have nothing to apologize for,
and those who seem to think the empire was some kind of altruistic venture for which the former colonized should be grateful......
A quick reminder of one of the many reasons that the colonized don't share your rosy tinted view... - Laurie Kwame Richardson


The British Empire was the most benign and benevolent empire and history. People would far rather have lived under the British Empire than brutal regimes like the French Empire. It's no wonder people like the Jamaicans are desperate to be under British rule again (although our government doesn't seem to be doing much about this by granting the Jamaicans their wishes, for some bizarre reason).

You should give up telling people sick jokes! They are not funny.


Inconvenient truths that the PC Brigade like to conveniently ignore.
 

Blackleaf

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There was no Operation Sledgehammer.

The reason for that is because we realised how disastrous that would have been, so Britain's far more sensible Operation Torch was carried out instead.

The US bailed the Brits out of N. Africa.
The North African Campaign was won by Operation Torch (that British idea the Yanks were initially against, because they preferred their own Operation Sledgehammer, which would have been an unmitigated disaster had it been carried out) and by the British codebreakers at Bletchley Park in Buckinghamshire.

It is estimated that 40% to 60% of Axis supply shipping in North Africa was located and destroyed due to decrypted information. Heavy losses of German paratroopers in Crete, made possible by Ultra warnings of the drop times and locations, meant that Hitler hesitated to attack Malta, which aided the British in gaining control of the Mediterranean, as did the defeat of the Italian Navy at the Battle of Cape Matapan.

The US was in charge of the Normandy invasions.
Actually, my old mucker, D-Day was almost entirely planned by the British. Who was it who made most of the ammunition; who packed the parachutes; who manned the ops rooms; who created the maps; who invented the ingenious Mulberry harbours? Yep, it was the British.

Yet on the day, every such fear was confounded. And for all the critical contribution of the United States, this (D-Day) was the last great operation of the war in which the British took the lion’s share, and earned a lion’s share of the credit.

Think of the myriad British people involved, from the women industrial workers who made the ammunition to the WAAFs who packed parachutes, the WRNS who manned ops rooms.

Then there were the high commanders. General Sir Bernard Montgomery had been a celebrity since his victory at El Alamein in November 1942, but he was also intensely controversial — hated by the Americans, who thought him slow in action, unforgivably rude and patronising in speech.

But, under Dwight Eisenhower’s nominal Supreme Command, the operational plan for D-Day was overwhelmingly Monty’s. He directed both the landings and subsequent campaign ashore.


Normandy, France, June 1944. A composite aerial photograph of a 'Mulberry' artificial harbour - an ingenious British innovation - at the beach head after the landings on June 6, 1944

Even most of his critics conceded that nobody else could have done it better, from the moment early in 1944 when he insisted that the number of troops attacking on the first day should be doubled, whatever the difficulties about finding extra shipping to carry them.

Then there were the staff, thousands of officers often caricatured as boring blimps, almost all civilians in uniform, who worked for months in dreary huts and offices, converting the great plan into reality.

Millions of maps had to be printed in conditions of absolute secrecy; 25 square miles of south Devon cleared of the civilian population to enable amphibious training; arrangements made to ship two million men, 200,000 vehicles, 4,000 tanks and 6,000 artillery pieces from Britain to France.

British workmen built the huge artificial Mulberry harbours which Churchill himself had conceived, to be towed in sections to France and shelter both British and American supply vessels offloading from volatile Channel weather during the first weeks after the landings.

Clever British geeks devised a compound of grease, lime and asbestos fibres to waterproof vehicles. Others designed what were known as ‘the funnies’ — tanks modified to swim, or carry fascines (rolled-up bundles of wood) to bridge ditches, mortars to destroy pillboxes, flame-throwers and flails to explode mines.

Curiously the Americans, usually the most mechanically-minded people on earth, spurned these Limey gadgets — and paid a heavy price for doing so when The Day came on the beaches.

The intelligence planners – again, overwhelmingly British amid American scepticism – forged the superlative Operational Fortitude, the greatest deception in history, to keep the Germans guessing first about where the invasion would come, and later about whether another landing would follow elsewhere.

Operation Fortitude required collaboration between the code decrypters of Bletchley Park, the MI5 officers controlling German double-agents in Britain, the RAF’s reconnaissance squadrons and thousands of army signals personnel impersonating dummy units, which were used to deceive the Germans on troop positions.

It worked brilliantly: Hitler kept vital forces in the Pas-de-Calais — well to the north of the Normandy beaches — until August, amid his high command’s chronic uncertainty about what the Allies might do next.

Then there was the Royal Navy, led by the brilliant Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay. Having controlled the 1940 Dunkirk evacuation, he now directed the huge fleet of warships, transport and landing craft which bore the armies to France.

In advance of the landings, late in January a British midget submarine — known as an X-craft — carried two secret swimmers into the beaches by night.

A sapper named Captain Scott-Bowden and Sergeant Bruce Ogden Smith, a member of the Special Boat Section from a famous family of fishing-tackle makers, probed the sand with auger drills within yards of German sentries before returning home bearing samples so it could be established whether the target beaches could take the weight of the tanks.

At dawn on June 6, X-craft again played a role, providing beacons to guide the armada inshore, while thousands of sailors directed landing craft and manned the guns of bombarding warships. Overhead, hundreds of squadrons of RAF bombers and fighters spearheaded the huge air operation in support of the assault.

The word hero is often foolishly abused to describe anybody who took part in the Second World War, whether wielding a pen as an Army office clerk at Aldershot, or enduring the whitest heat of battle as an infantryman.

On June 6, 1944, British genius and courage held the forefront as the forces of freedom took the first great stride towards the liberation of Western Europe.

Raise a glass today, to the memory of all those magnificent men, from the boffins, planners and industrial workers to the aircrew, soldiers and sailors, from Winston Churchill through John Howard to Stan Hollis, who did very great things to make possible the triumph of June 6, 1944.

They were, indeed, the Best of British.


There was however a Dieppe and an Operation Market Garden. Both of which were Briddish ideas and complete disasters.
Operation Sledgehammer was a Yank idea, yet that would have made Dieppe and Operation Market Garden look like teddy bear's picnics, so the British were hardly ther only ones who came out with bad ideas during the war.

Operation Sledgehammer was eagerly pressed for by both the United States military and the Soviet Union, but it was never actually carried out as it was finally realised that it was wholly impractical at that period in time, an assessment which was indicated by the Dieppe Raid of August 1942. Instead, Britain's idea of Operation Torch was carried out, to huge success.

As for Operation Dieppe - which has been called "the wrong execution of the right idea" - the British performed quite well in that operation and had some success. It was the Canadians who let us down.

Saved your butts in WWI too!
Sorry, but no. You entered the war towards its end, and you were so short of equipment you had to borrow off the British. By the time America entered the war Britain and France were gaining the upper hand against the Hun, thanks in no small part to yet another piece of British ingenuity - the tank. This helped to smash the stalemate in the trenches and propelled Britain and France towards victory.

The Japanese caught the Brits by surprise too and drove your sorry azzes out of the Pacific! The brits didn't return until 1945 and after the US drove the Japanese back to their home islands.
The British had most of their resources back in Europe. Britain was in a fight for its life against Germany and Italy. The British saw defeating Germany and Italy in Europe as being far more important than defending Malaya and Singapore.

Don't be silly. Your island was ripe for the picking and what saved the Brits was Hitler invading the Soviet Union.
What saved the British was the British preventing the Germans gaining air superiority over them during the Battle of Britain. This then forced Adolf to cancel Operation Sea Lion, the planned amphibious and airborne invasion of Britain. This took place before America was in the war and before the Soviet Union joined the Allies.

It was the first major defeat of Germany during the war and it was inflicted by the British.

Air battles over the Pacific were a daily occurrence. Even the Soviets scoffed at those handful of dog fights that the brits in their pompous arrogance called a battle. It was a sideshow worthy of a foot note.
The Battle of Britain was not only the second-largest air battle of WWII after the Battle of Kursk it still remains the second-largest air battle in history.

D-Day was led by US General Eisenhower.
Eisenhower's "leadership" of the campaign was mainly symbolic. The real powers behind the campaign were Montogomery, who led the Allied land forces; Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory, who led the Allied air forces; and Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay was in charge of the Allied Naval Expeditionary Force of the campaign. It's all there in the history literature. Look it up. It'll only take you a few minutes.


Monty should have been sacked. He was the worse general in WWII.
What absolute bollocks.

Monty was a man who picked up 22 honours and awards, including many from grateful nations, such as the Grand Cross of the Order of the White Lion from Czechoslovakia; the Grand Cross of the Royal Norwegian Order of St. Olav; the Grand Cross of the Legion of Honour from France; and was made a Knight of the Order of the Elephant by Denmark.

On June 13th 1946, the French even named the Norman commune of Colleville-sur-Orne as Colleville-Montgomery to honour the man who commanded the Invasion of Normandy.

There are two towns, Calvados Sainte-Foy-de-Montgomery and Saint-Germain-de- Montgomery in the area, but they are named for Montgomery's family ancestors. They were part of William the Conqueror's invading Norman army in 1066 and settled in England.

This is your problem Blackleaf, you believe in myths, he never made that comment, ever.


Have you got any evidence from your rather dubious assertion?

E S, I sometimes wonder why you bother arguing with this pompous briddish horse and donkey mix......


I don't know why he bothers, either. He usually loses.
 
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tay

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The United States, like other countries, has crafted a set of mythologies and national lies that help to socialize its citizens into a shared history, culture, and identity. One of the United States’ most powerful myths is a belief that the nation was founded as a country “of immigrants.”


This is untrue. Like Australia, South Africa, and Israel, the United States was a colonial state made up of white settlers.


The distinction between a “settler” society and one comprised of “immigrants” is very important.


Immigrants move to a new space and then adopt the values of the people already living there. By contrast, settlers move to a new space, claim it as their own, and then impose their values and beliefs on the people who were already living there.


The United States, in its treatment of First Nations, as well as other people of color around the world, is a typical example of the settler-based colonial society.


To wit: Benjamin Franklin himself evinced and reinforced a belief in the need for white people to spread across the continent, taking land, laying claim to it, and producing white “anchor babies” to secure the racial purity and prosperity of a white nation in the making.
In his 1751 short essay, “Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc.,” Franklin wrote the following:
The number of purely white people in the world is proportionally very small.


All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes are generally of what we call a swarthy complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English make the principal body of white people on the face of the earth. I could wish their numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, scouring our planet, by clearing America of woods, and so making this side of our globe reflect a brighter light to the eyes of inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the sight of superior beings, darken its people? Why increase the sons of Africa, by planting them in America, where we have so fair an opportunity, by excluding all blacks and tawneys, of increasing the lovely white and red? But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such kind of partiality is natural to Mankind.
White settler colonialists in America had eager libidos, urges that they used to rapidly grow the white population. In 17th century Andover, Mass., for example, white families had an average of 8.2 children. The average 18th century Southern white family had 9.6 children. This was a birthrate far higher than that of Europeans during the same era.






White people were America’s real “anchor babies”: A history lesson for the Republican Party - Salon.com
 

JLM

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The British Empire was the most benign and benevolent empire and history. .

And maybe for good reason!

The United States, like other countries, has crafted a set of mythologies and national lies that help to socialize its citizens into a shared history, culture, and identity. One of the United States’ most powerful myths is a belief that the nation was founded as a country “of immigrants.”




White people were America’s real “anchor babies”: A history lesson for the Republican Party - Salon.com

And what difference does the colour of a person's skin make?
 

EagleSmack

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The reason for that is because we realised how disastrous that would have been, so Britain's far more sensible Operation Torch was carried out instead.


Whereas the Brits went forward with Dieppe and Market Garden.


Complete disasters.

The North African Campaign was won by Operation Torch (that British idea the Yanks were initially against, because they preferred their own Operation Sledgehammer, which would have been an unmitigated disaster had it been carried out) and by the British codebreakers at Bletchley Park in Buckinghamshire.


There was no Sledgehammer and the US turned the tide in Africa.



Actually, my old mucker, D-Day was almost entirely planned by the British. Who was it who made most of the ammunition; who packed the parachutes; who manned the ops rooms; who created the maps; who invented the ingenious Mulberry harbours? Yep, it was the British.


A US General was in charge.



Operation Sledgehammer was a Yank idea, yet that would have made Dieppe and Operation Market Garden look like teddy bear's picnics, so the British were hardly ther only ones who came out with bad ideas during the war.


There was no Sledgehammer.


There was a Market Garden and Dieppe. Both Briddish ideas and both unmitigated disasters.


No wonder why the US was in charge of the European theater.


As for Operation Dieppe - which has been called "the wrong execution of the right idea" - the British performed quite well in that operation and had some success.


Brit idea... Brit failure.


It was the Canadians who let us down.


The bravery of Canadians was the only highpoint of Dieppe. The Brits sent them to the slaughter as they have always done.

Sorry, but no. You entered the war towards its end, and you were so short of equipment you had to borrow off the British. By the time America entered the war Britain and France were gaining the upper hand against the Hun, thanks in no small part to yet another piece of British ingenuity - the tank. This helped to smash the stalemate in the trenches and propelled Britain and France towards victory.


French and US equipment was much better.


What saved the British was the British preventing the Germans gaining air superiority over them during the Battle of Britain. This then forced Adolf to cancel Operation Sea Lion, the planned amphibious and airborne invasion of Britain. This took place before America was in the war and before the Soviet Union joined the Allies.


Operation Barbarossa saved the brits.


The Battle of Britain was not only the second-largest air battle of WWII after the Battle of Kursk it still remains the second-largest air battle in history.


A series of dogfights over months and the Germans still managed to ground your cities to rubble until they decided to stop.

Eisenhower's "leadership" of the campaign was mainly symbolic. The real powers behind the campaign were Montogomery, who led the Allied land forces; Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory, who led the Allied air forces; and Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay was in charge of the Allied Naval Expeditionary Force of the campaign. It's all there in the history literature. Look it up. It'll only take you a few minutes.


Monty was a fool. Worse allied general and Market Garden was proof. He should have been sacked.



^
Racist
 

Sons of Liberty

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Evil Empire

EagleSmack

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The Battle of Britain was a sideshow.



Winston Churchill once wrote that, '... the only thing that ever really frightened me during the war was the U-boat peril'. In saying this, he correctly identified the importance of the threat posed during World War Two by German submarines (the 'Unterseeboot') to the Atlantic lifeline. This lifeline was Britain's 'centre of gravity' - the loss of which would probably have led to wholesale defeat in the war.



The U-Boats were what frightened Churchill... not the Luftwaffe. Why? Because Canada and the US fed and supplied Britain and they were doomed without supplies from these countries.