Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
God didn't intend for us to be blind about the that time, even though the time of the 1st trump is unknown. What is (available) covers 1264 days (1260 for the two witnesses plus the 3 1/2 days they are in the grave). If you were to read the 24 passages in the OT that carries the term 'day of the Lord' things would be pretty clear, I would be more than willing to show you that much and after that any reference would have to mesh with those prophecies. The OT is shy on dates for those events, Revelation nails it down to a single day and a portion of one hour.

1Th:5:1-19:
But of the times and the seasons,
brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say,
Peace and safety;
then sudden destruction cometh upon them,
as travail upon a woman with child;
and they shall not escape.
But ye,
brethren,
are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day:
we are not of the night,
nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep,
as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us,
who are of the day,
be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love;
and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

To show you that understanding is available in my previous post what was the first thing that you read that was confusing, hopefully it is something I can add more detail to.

The core of faith is pretty easy to understand and pretty easy to spot in public without any words being spoken.

Jas:2:14-18:
What doth it profit,
my brethren,
though a man say he hath faith,
and have not works?
can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked,
and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace,
be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead,
being alone.
Yea,
a man may say,
Thou hast faith,
and I have works:
shew me thy faith without thy works,
and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

To be quite truthful I promote that Ge:1-3 and Re:20-22 gives and excellent summation of the beginning and the end. All the material in between that is about how the two bruises start and end, the cross was the end of the bruise to the heel and what is still coming is the conclusion of the other bruise. If size is an indication of how complex that is then it is very accurate just by the volume of words that apply to them.
 
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French Patriot

Council Member
Sep 17, 2012
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Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

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http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/
“Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.”
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http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/original_sin.html
From John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged.
“What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.
Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.”

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Gen 3;22 And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;

Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?

Regards
DL