What's up with China stealing our technologies?

[Outta here]

Did anyone watch The National last night? There was a brief story on about an announcement made by the gov't to the effect that we've had enough of China blatently stealing our technologies and research and that we're gonna be addressing this problem in what I gather will be a much more assertive manner than we have been currently.

Now, I'm not all that up on this stuff, but this whole story really surprised me. First of all, apparently it's been well known that China's been having a free for all with our goodies for quite some time now. It's news to me, but that's not saying much, since this stuff tends to fly right past me unnoticed anyway... but still.... How come we've been letting them get away with this? The example they used was the Blackberry - that the technology is Canadian and has been pirated and is now being reproduced in China under the name of the Redberry. Apparently only one of many many instances, and it's been going on for years!?

Second of all, when was the last time we took anything resembling an aggressive or even strongly assertive stance with a country like China? 8O

Can anyone shed a little more light on this for me?

 

[Machjo]

I don't know myself, but I'm not surprised that Chinese would do this. I'd be curious what Canada can really do though.

If a company is responsible, take them to Chinese or interantional court?

If the Chinese government is responsible, take China to the international court?

After that, it's whatever the court decides.

Honestly, i don't know what more Canada could really do here at this stage in the game.

 

[FiveParadox]

Canada Has Few Options...?

I don't think that the Government of Canada has many options in terms of making any sort of representation to the Government of the People's Republic of China, in relation to this particular issue. Companies in Canada rip each other off every day, in terms of their ideas — I don't think there's a heck of a lot that Canada can do to "force" China into making any sort of concessions or surrender regarding this apparent Redberry product.

 

[Outta here]

well 5p, that's just it - it's not just one product, it's many many different technologies, medical and scientific research etc.... I wish I knew how to retrieve stories from TV News Programs, I've tried, but they never seem to be archived to links until they're no longer current.
Anyway, they didn't say how Canada intends to address this, just that it intends to send a strong message to China that we are no longer going to be turning a blind eye to it and that we intend to address it in a more forceful manner.... or something to that effect.

 

[FiveParadox]

Let's hope that the "forceful manner" being referred to by our new Government of Canada doesn't reward us with a smoldering crater where our lovely Peace Tower once stood, okay?

Seriously though, I honestly don't think that there's a lot that Canada can do in relation to this issue. China has more sway in terms of its economy than does Canada, so the only nation between the two who would properly be able to carry out any sort of threat or forceful request would be China — not Canada, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Outta here]

Re: RE: What's up with China stealing our technologies?

Let's hope that the "forceful manner" being referred to by our new Government of Canada doesn't reward us with a smoldering crater where our lovely Peace Tower once stood, okay?

oh you just said a mouthful there, 5par... I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw it! I mean really, do we know what we're biting off with strong language like that?

Seriously though, I honestly don't think that there's a lot that Canada can do in relation to this issue. China has more sway in terms of its economy than does Canada, so the only nation between the two who would properly be able to carry out any sort of threat or forceful request would be China — not Canada, by any stretch of the imagination.

My first thought - fuelled by my woeful ignorance of 'how it al works' was that we are now getting in deeper with aligning ourselves with the US - what else could we do? Ya don't poke the bear unless you've got some serious back up behind ya.... I was kinda hoping you'd know what it was all about and be able to explain this all away for me... looks like we'll have to wait for further announcements to get whole picture.

 

[FiveParadox]

I wouldn't count on further announcement from any of our dear Ministers of the Crown until our Prime Minister of Canada has torn up the statement the Minister stayed up late to write (at which point the Minister is going to cry, and the Prime Minister is going to tell him that crying is not on-message), and has given him a new, Harper-Friendly statement to give us.

 

[Machjo]

Ah, probably just to look tough on TV and win some political browny points with Canadians. Problem is though, that too much of that eventually changes the impression of the PM from "tough" to "all talk no action". If there is nothing we can do about it, then shut up. And if there is something we can do (all I acan see at the moment is the international court for all it's worth), then let's do it and get it over with.

 

[I think not]

Here's some more info, I remeber reading about this last year:

Chinese spies cost Canada billions

 

[darkbeaver]

Outsourcing US Missile Technology to China

The Saga of Magnequench

By JEFFREY ST. CLAIR

Magnequench is an Indianapolis-based company. It specializes in the obscure field of sintered magnetics. Essentially, it makes tiny, high-tech magnets from rare-earth minerals ground down into a fine powder. The magnets are highly prized by electronics and aviation companies. But Magnequench's biggest client has been the Pentagon.

The neodymium-iron-boron magnets made by Magnequench are a crucial component in the guidance system of cruise missiles and the Joint Direct Attack Munition or JDAM bomb, which is made by Boeing and had a starring role in the spring bombing of Baghdad. Indeed, Magnequench enjoys a near monopoly on this market niche, supplying 85 percent of the rare-earth magnets that are used in the servo motors of these guided missiles and bombs.

But the Pentagon may soon be sending its orders for these
www.counterpunch.org/stclair04072006.html

 

[Sassylassie]

China is notoriuous for stealing tecnology and duplicating it and selling it under China's Brand name. China also steals North American fashion designs makes cheap knock offs and sell it as a designer original. Tommy Hilfinger's designs are one of their favorites. They mass produce the product in China and sell it world wide under Hillfinges name. Canadian police raided a company in NS and they netted around half a million in knock-offs. China also makes knock-off rolexes etc. you name it they mass produce it and sell it back as an original into North American and other countries. It's costing legitimate companies millions in lost revenue, and China is getting away with it. It's blatant Copy Write Infringement. Like Five stated we do not have any recourse that I know of to make them stop or at least fine them.

 

[cortezzz]

technology
is common human public property
period

 

[Machjo]

Even if reporting China to the world court might not have an immediate major impact, I say Canada ought to do it anyway; it still loses China face and credibility in the news media, and thus causes them embarassment. Add to that that if other nations take the same measures, eventually the world court keeps condeming China case after case. For the Chiense, this would be embarrassing and humiliating culturally, at which point the Chinese government would start feeling the heat from its population for having smeared the nation's reputation such.

In addition, should there be enough such cases, the world court, UN or some other legitimate body could allow Canada and other victims the right to take certain actions, such as tarification or other measures as deemed just by the world court.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: What's up with China stealing our technologies?

technology
is common human public property
period

Our opinions don't matter here. The law is the law. If at some point in the future international law recognises technology as public property, then fine. But until that happens, copyright laws apply. If China thinks such laws are unfair, then it's free to approach the UN, criticise these laws, and try to get them changed. That's well within China's rights. But it has no right to break the laws. Laws are NOT meant to be broken.

 

[jimmoyer]

Machjo, unfortunately too many western lobbyists
hoping for a chance of the China market will caution
against such action.

But technology will still advance in other nations
beyond any theft from China.

 

[Machjo]

Re: RE: What's up with China stealing our technologies?

Machjo, unfortunately too many western lobbyists
hoping for a chance of the China market will caution
against such action.

But technology will still advance in other nations
beyond any theft from China.

Who cares about lobbyists. The law is the law. If China is violating international law, then Canada ought to take them to the appropriate international authority.

This would also show China that Canada is professional. When we meet with them we're not going to lecture them about what are legitimately their internal issues. But when they violate international law, nothing personal. the law is the law, and just like anyone else, the Canadian government has a duty to report it. It doesn't matter if it's the US, China, or whoever. It has nothing to do with disliking China, or seeking revenge or anything else. Like I said, nothing personal. You violate the law, you're reported to the appropriate authority.

 

[Outta here]

Judging from the responses I'm seeing, I'm still kinda confused why the gov't would bother making such a no-teeth announcement if there's really nothing significant we can actually do. If reporting China to the world court is all we've got, it doesn't sound very 'forceful' to me? Although, I do agree with Machjo in that China will not be pleased to lose face and be publically outed for it's behaviour internationally. Maybe for China that is a 'forceful' reaction to receive?
Is this primarily a Chinese/Canadian problem? That would also seem odd to me.

 

[Machjo]

Believe me, culturally the Chinese people are concerned about their immage abroad. So when their government embarasses their nation, they get peeved. China is a one-party state. But make no mistake about it, people tdo criticise it, sometimes even quite publicly. It is opening up. For instance, despite media sensorship, practically everyone in China knows about the square incident through word of mouth. And they do criticise the government, just not in the media so much.

 

[EagleSmack]

China will always look to what is good for China. WHat happened with Canada's Blackberry tech is nothing new. It is all fine and good to look at China as a future super power to counter the US but now Canada is seeing that CHina will use them as well.

Please do not think you are immune to Chinese tricks. Take them to the International COurt and the will just smile and nod as they have always done. And believe me, internal dissent in China is answered swiftly. The Chinese Govt. would easily kill millions of it's own if it had too to maintain power.

 

[Machjo]

Here's a responce I got from a Chinese forum to the link posted by ITN.

Sure the comment below is outright racist (racism is even more explicit in Chian than Canada believe it or not), but putting that aside he does have some points which I'll mention below once you've read his post to me:


"White men who got into power through liars' contest, who then tell lies through their teeth, "relying" on the lies and exaggerations of Goonies, libelling the great nation of China - why in the world would the Chinese respect such clowns?

If they have evidence, you'd thunk they have produced it already!! Just like the Japs, these Canadian clowns blow hot air out of their orifices.

If Canada does not wish to business with China, all that the clowns have to do is to speak up.

But actually most Canadians are rather more reasonable than most. Mayhap having a substantial Chinese population helps."

Now for my points:

1. Since some people in every nation will take criticism of their government from abroad as criticism against themselves (Canadians do it too), it would be wise for the Canadian government not to criticise any nation publicly.

2. If a nation is in fact violating international law, the government ought to simply present the evidence to the appropriate international authorities and then let those authorities deal with it from there on in. This way, since the government never publicly denounced this, it shows respect for the other nation and is a more professional and mature behaviour anyway. Yet taking it to the apporpriate internaitonal authorites still shows that Canada will exercise its rersponsibilites in accordance with international law, nothing personal. Just business.