What is wrong with our "justice" system?

[MikeyDB]

Justice in Canada

If anyone had any doubts regarding the substance and character of “justice” in Canada, Stephen Harper has established the standard.

The U.S. signed NAFTA and then decided that it wasn’t happy with the deal insofar as softwood lumber (at least) was concerned. The U.S. then stole $5 billion dollars collected through an illegal tariff on softwood lumber at the border.

Stephen Harper and his good pal Emerson have just crafted legislation that not only doesn’t speak to the fundamental issue of international theft by our “good neighbours” but allows them to keep a $1 billion of the money they collected. With a dumpy little jerk like Harper in power, the rule of law in Canada is…. “pass the Vaseline….”

Our pal Stephen doesn’t mind having Canadians take it up the rump when he can play statesman by ignoring that the U.S. violated the NAFTA agreement in the first place.

“Justice”: NO SUCH THING IN CANADA!

 

[I think not]

Nice post MikeyDB, I'm curious how all of a sudden you are sympathetic to corporations being swindled out of money.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: What is wrong with our "justice" system?

Justice in Canada

If anyone had any doubts regarding the substance and character of “justice” in Canada, Stephen Harper has established the standard.

The U.S. signed NAFTA and then decided that it wasn’t happy with the deal insofar as softwood lumber (at least) was concerned. The U.S. then stole $5 billion dollars collected through an illegal tariff on softwood lumber at the border.

Stephen Harper and his good pal Emerson have just crafted legislation that not only doesn’t speak to the fundamental issue of international theft by our “good neighbours” but allows them to keep a $1 billion of the money they collected. With a dumpy little jerk like Harper in power, the rule of law in Canada is…. “pass the Vaseline….”

Our pal Stephen doesn’t mind having Canadians take it up the rump when he can play statesman by ignoring that the U.S. violated the NAFTA agreement in the first place.

“Justice”: NO SUCH THING IN CANADA!

Don't be obtuse.

The deal is the best that could be gotten, and NAFTA has made Canada rich on the coat tails of the USA.

Yes, the Yanks have NOT dealt at all fairly with us over this issue. There is no argument over that. But the fight has been going on for 20 years, and nobody was winning, least of all Canada.

I suppose we could have withdrawn from NAFTA, thus throwing out the baby with the bath water, and inspiring the idiots in the NDOP to multi-orgasm, but I hardly think that would have been wise.

 

[#juan]

Colpy wrote:

The deal is the best that could be gotten, and NAFTA has made Canada rich on the coat tails of the USA.

NAFTA did not make Canada rich. Every resource based economy had the same boom as Canada. The U.S. bought our goods because they needed them. You make it sound like NAFTA is an American charity. It is not.

 

[Colpy]

Colpy wrote:

The deal is the best that could be gotten, and NAFTA has made Canada rich on the coat tails of the USA.

NAFTA did not make Canada rich. Every resource based economy had the same boom as Canada. The U.S. bought our goods because they needed them. You make it sound like NAFTA is an American charity. It is not.

I certainly did not intend to make NAFTA sound like American charity.....you are correct, it certainly is not. The Americans will always act in their own best interest, as does every other nation on earth. In fact, they can, and sometimes will, be entirely unfair in their trade dealings.......the old mad cow thing and softwood lumber both prove that.

However, our inclusion in NAFTA means we have increased acess to markets in the largest economy on earth..........and that has helped our economy.

I am not a fan of trade restrictions. I'd like to see them all gone.......they seem to protect only the rich, and have set off more than a few wars.

 

[#juan]

Colpy

We already had a free trade aqgreement with the U.S. The U.S. only buys our goods because they need them and they always demand the best price. As it turns out, "free trade" meant nothing to the U.S.. As soon as one of the little lumber barons complained to Bush we had a thirty percent tariff on our lumber. The U.S. has had more cases of Mad Cow (that they've told anyone about)than we have but our beef industry was shut down overnight. Free trade means nothing if one partner has the power to pick and choose which products are "free".

 

[MikeyDB]

Why anyone trusts that America will abide by its agreements any time is beyond me!

They threw away NAFTA and the settlement decision and the Geneva Conventions etc. etc.

When you ratify an agreement with another nation and that nation demonstrates over and over that they're less interested in honoring those agreements than they are in screwing anybody and everybody in the name of greed and power....how can you trust them? With ANYTHING!

 

[tamarin]

A good thread that went a bit astray.
Today's Globe reiterates that the nation's justice system is in decline. Supreme Court Chief Justice Bev McLachlin is profiled. She echoes what most Canadians already know: the justice system no longer works. Citing ballooning time for trials and onerous delays in even bring cases to court, McLachlin commiserates with the middle class who often give up in frustration at an essential system whose costs threaten their ability to use it. The "threat of swift, unpredictable justice" is essential to crime deterrence, she says, and it's being lost.
More and more litigants attempt to represent themselves as costs to hire representation are prohibitive. Add to that the increasing complexity of legal processes, due to the Charter of Rights, and you have a system in crisis, the Justice adds.
So, I think, why hasn't Canada's justice system received the attention of modernization that so many other fields in our society have? And why do so many people still think that the Charter of Rights, pushed through to complete the legacy of one Pierre Trudeau, is a thing we should be proud of?

 

[L Gilbert]

"What is wrong with our "justice" system? "

What justice system? There is no such thing. We have something called the legal system which deals with crime and punishment. But the closest thing we have to a formal justice system is civil court.

 

[tamarin]

Yah, reminds me of a quote I saw recently: the courts are not in the business of truth or justice; theirs is one called 'dispute resolution.'

 

[L Gilbert]

That's exactly it concerning civil courts fersher.

 

[westmanguy]

*sigh*

so much bickering...

Way to fix system:

higher mandatory sentences for serious offenses (murder, rape, sexual abuse, arson, kidnapping, robbery, etc.) REGARDLESS of who the judge is, we need to force all crimes to have a minimum sentence that fits the crime. That has to be proven to the jury/judge that they did though.

Prison! If your going to die in prison or get out in your old age: Why waste our money rehabilating you when you'll be old or gone by the time your sentence is up? If that is the circumstace I say: restitution. They should have to do some labor, that the gov. earns money on, to give back to the community. Like in California where there long-time offenders make furniture which the gov. sells and makes $$ on.

Short-time offenders (0-15 yeears). Rehabilitation, education. Only the person can rehabilitate themselves, but we should offer them an education to turn their life around when they get out. If they choose no: Prison cell.

And this would be my MUST rules:

No Media: media ONLY if its related to rehabilitation or education. NO Television, NO Newspapers, NO Radio, NO entertainment. You lost that right when you broke the law!

NO VOTING PRIVELEGES: If you have been sentenced, you lose the right to vote. I think that is simple.

*Special section for people awaiting trial and have not been found guilty or not guilty. They go in a cell, and do not work, or rehabilitate, or get educated, but they receive media privellages and voting privelages. This is only for people awaiting trial.

The main thing to me is the "restorative justice".. these nut ball left-wing judges letting a sexual abuser off with rehab!

In serious offender cases, all rehabilitation should be done WHILE IN PRISON.

The other issue, is the time fitting the crime. 10 years is NOT enough for murder (shudder at Karla Holmolka case).

1 year is NOT enough for rape
1 year is NOT enough for arson

It stuns me all those times I see slap judgments for serious offenders.

And anyone want to discuss the chaos with the Youth Criminal Justice Act? Here in Manitoba we are having an awful time in Winnipeg with car theft. The Youth is a big crime section, and cars 4being stolen, stabbings, shop-lifting, and tons of crime all over the place from the 14-17 crowd. And they get nothing? I don't believe in harsh punishment but this is crazy the way its set up right now... they can't touch a youth!

 

[darkbeaver]

Nice crime thingy. Why don't we let god decide, it's worked in the past.

 

[snfu73]

Apparently the problem with our justice system is that we haven't completely jammed packed our jails full of people yet. We still have space! FILL IT!

 

[westmanguy]

You guys are ignorant and clueless.

Canadian jails are nowhere like the jails in the USA.

Lets put the funding out to build more jails...

 

[tamarin]

Snfu, just a crock. A functioning justice system is fundamental to a democracy. Canada has not a clue.
Westman, children, our most precious natural resource, usually are thought responsible for the bulk of a community's crimes. Not a great asset in many cases. We need to hold parents more accountable and we need to get tough once a second court appearance occurs. I'm not convinced rehabilitation works. Maybe we need to spend more money on redirection.

 

[snfu73]

You guys are ignorant and clueless.

Canadian jails are nowhere like the jails in the USA.

Lets put the funding out to build more jails...

Your right...we should be STRIVING to fill as many jails as in the US...I was ignorant and clueless...thanks for filling me in!

 

[westmanguy]

Well you proved my point!

I believe the punishment should fit the crime. (and I have my own general regions for how much time for certain crimes)


So we throw murder to 5 years so we don't crowd our prisons?

I don't care what the prisons turn into. As long as the time fits the crime, which in the last 10 years, it has NOT.

I am all for the funding to create more jails.

 

[snfu73]

Sooo...who decides what crime fits what time? You? And is this in all circumstances? No if, ands, or buts...or is the entire situation and the events revolving around the crime taken into consideration. And, then, once you have tossed all these folks in jail...then what...they sit there? Then what happens when they get out?

 

[westmanguy]

Its like spanking a child.

I would like to see are jails like the jails in the USA.

Make a man fend for himself in a gang-driven, violent prison for 10 years, and when he gets out hes sure the heck not want to get himself back in!