What if Climate Change was a Hoax ?

[Tonington]

If it's a hoax? Then it is by a wide margin the largest hoax ever.

What would be the tradeoff?

1%GDP for the globe gobe over the next two decades (even in a recession the IMF puts 2009 growth at 0.5%).

And what do we get for that? Kilowatt prices that don't respond to the whims of the speculators, cleaner air, cleaner water, less environmental sickness, increased productivity from fewer sick days, less pressure on ecosystems, and a more equitable society. That's a good start, no?

 

[Francis2004]

SirFrancis2004

Are you willing to give me a thousand dollars to upgrade my computer in these economic time where money is scarce?

This is a good call by Canadian Content to keep the old version for a while.
When people have the money to spend on an upgrade then the old version will go.

This is the same for the enviroment.

When you look at it, this whole enviroment mess is the fault of the enviromental businesses because they are charging more for equipment that is cheap to make to keep the air we breath clean.

If you were to take a cost analysis of pollution and anti-pollution equipment the difference would be minimal but since this is a new area the ant-pollution manufacturer feel that they can gouge the customer, until more competition brings in more products to the market place then the price will come down.

When the economy gets better and more money is available then we all can pursue this cleaning of the environment.

In the meantime those who can afford the change should invest in a space suite that can protect you from the environment, now a space suit would cost a couple of hundred dollars to make but I am sure you will be able to spend thousands of dollars to buy it.

Now you can breath easier.

Why is it my fault you did not upgrade your computer ?

I can log on to this site with any of my computers. A Pentium 1 with 500 Mhz processor, 32 Megs of RAM and 8 Meg Video card ( ~10 years old ) and still be on the new Forum. Or my newer ( ~3 years old now ) Pentium 3 Main Computer 1.6 Ghz with a 32 Megs Video card. The in between as you can imagine is a Pentium 2 with a 900 Mhz.. All of them will access this site at different speeds but all can access it none the less. You see I don't have the money for a new computer either and most of the new ones are way below $1000.00..

Now will you help me buy a new one for me ?

All I see here are excuses..

Do you wait for the economy to get better to clean your house ?

Do you also wait to for the economy to take a bath ?

Once again, all excuses..

When the economy was good, it was going to bring the economy down.. Now the economy is down, it will hurt it even more..

The fact that these Green initiatives could actually bring us out of the economic slump is a positive aspect of this drive. With bringing jobs home from companies looking at the cost of transport and enviomental dangers of having product build by "others" out of their control, it is more important now then ever to keep Quality Control in the hands of those who develop this technology then ever..

Will it solve all problems, of course not, but its a start..

 

[L Gilbert]

Yeah, I'd much prefer our society if everyone's lives didn't hinge upon market speculation but rather the realities of life (like growing, collecting, and distribution of food, for example).

 

[L Gilbert]

We have had basically 2 computers in the past 15 years. If a part goes, we don't go buy a new pc, we upgrade to a newer part. A few things we simply added, like more RAM and another fan.

 

[JLM]

Expensive to live "organically"? That's funny. We grow most of our own veggies, we have chickens, we hunt wild game, go fishing in the lake out front, grow our own fruit, etc. We recycle, reuse stuff, etc.
On the contrary, if you think about how you live and what you can change, it is actually cheaper to live "organically". If you have an apartment in the middle of a city and only get your stuff from stores, yes "organic" is expensive.

You have to watch that "organic" philisophy- it's good to buy organic as long as the price is the same as the non organic. An apple is an apple is an apple- just wash it well before eating. There was an article in Readers Digest recently about what a ripoff buying organic can be.

 

[#juan]

What if the Northwest passage was ice-free all year for the first time in thousands of years
What if the Arctic sea ice was so diminished that Polar Bears were drowning because they couldn't swim an extra twenty five miles to get to it?
What if the Pine Beetle was was moving further inland every year because there was no heavy frost to kill it?
What if buildings built on the permafrost a hundred and fifty years ago are now sinking into the mud because the permafrost is melting?
Yeah, what if?...:roll:

 

[L Gilbert]

You have to watch that "organic" philisophy- it's good to buy organic as long as the price is the same as the non organic. An apple is an apple is an apple- just wash it well before eating. There was an article in Readers Digest recently about what a ripoff buying organic can be.

Yes, you can wash a pesticide off an apple, but that does not remedy what is inside an apple. Plants have a tendency to soak up stuff from their surroundings, things like lead, copper, and salts, etc. are on the inside. So apples are different.
Pharmaceutical companies have been fiddling around with the genetics in seeds and maybe other things, so we make sure that the seeds we buy are not from companies that have anything to do with pharmaceutical companies.
Anyway, we buy very little from grocery stores, whether they are environmentally conscious stores or not.

 

[L Gilbert]

What if the Northwest passage was ice-free all year for the first time in thousands of years
What if the Arctic sea ice was so diminished that Polar Bears were drowning because they couldn't swim an extra twenty five miles to get to it?
What if the Pine Beetle was was moving further inland every year because there was no heavy frost to kill it?
What if buildings built on the permafrost a hundred and fifty years ago are now sinking into the mud because the permafrost is melting?
Yeah, what if?...:roll:

What if people accepted that stuff changes and we lived more responsibly concerning the planet. What if we keep going without concern for the planet. :roll:

 

[edt]

What are these green jobs everyone talks about? How are 20-30 year tenured auto workers going to take advantage of these without needing to go back to school to obtain an environmental science /engineering degree? (even if they do, who is going to pay their living expenses while going to school)

All I see with the latest Canadian budget is the whole notion of 'green jobs' was just a means for the conservatives to garner the support of the Liberals and nothing more. Here in Alberta (where I am) the provincial government is handing over $1 billion dollars to the oil companies for untested carbon capture technology in the oil sands. I see all of these initiatives as a waste of money.

I do think Climate Change is a bit overblown, and I do believe it does need to take a backseat considering the economic difficulties the world is experiencing right now.

 

[Francis2004]

What if?:lol:

it's a money making hoax...Al Gore..Maurice Strong.

The problem is people confuse pollution with Climate change or Global warming, whatever term you want to use today. There is also this myth that those of us who don't buy into this AGW nonsense are polluting SUV driving slobs.

What has Obama done ?
Made some green statements during his campaign? People have already given that guy a free ride into the next term.
The guy smokes for pete's sake:lol: he's a polluter:lol:

Apparently you missed the point of this thread:

"Ok say man made "Climate Change" was a hoax?

I really don't care if you think it is or not that is not my point and neither will I argue it.. "

Thanks Les, you made my point and FunGuy fell into the trap

 

[Tonington]

What are these green jobs everyone talks about? How are 20-30 year tenured auto workers going to take advantage of these without needing to go back to school to obtain an environmental science /engineering degree? (even if they do, who is going to pay their living expenses while going to school)

If you can assemble a car on a manufacturing assembly line, then you can assemble parts in another factory to build generating machinery(solar cells, wind turbines, heat pumps, etc.).

How about construction jobs, building efficient infrastructure? Take the US for example. The US Government is the largest energy consumer in the world. If they require more efficient buildings, power, and locomotion, then that has a pretty significant effect on world markets.

If you listen to the economists that say we have to focus on the economy solely, then how on earth do people walk and chew gum at the same time? It is possible to do both.

 

[VanIsle]

Expensive to live "organically"? That's funny. We grow most of our own veggies, we have chickens, we hunt wild game, go fishing in the lake out front, grow our own fruit, etc. We recycle, reuse stuff, etc.
On the contrary, if you think about how you live and what you can change, it is actually cheaper to live "organically". If you have an apartment in the middle of a city and only get your stuff from stores, yes "organic" is expensive.

Try living deep in a large city and see how you can do all those things. You can't. Not without expense. Try purchasing organic products and just see how expensive it is. I may be quite wrong but I have to wonder exactly what a person is saving by buying organic bananas, pineapple, papaya, and anything else with a thick peel or rind. Things like canteloupe are sold by the pound/kg. You are going to peel that and toss it in the trash. Why would you pay the price? I've had young people come in and every item in their grocery order is either organic or re-cycled. Organic is expensive and so is re-cycled. Remember when re-cyclying first started and it was cheaper to buy re-cycled until someone realized they could show everyone they were saving the earth. Now like all things green - it costs more. It's like "less sodium" soups. They put in less product but charge you more for it. In other words, financially speaking, they charge us to live healthy and to look after the environment. We would all do it better if they eased off in what they can make off it. Even if they only charged the same. Greed destroys all. The "money man" for every company is at least partly responsible for the expenses we incur and the excesses we incur.

 

[Francis2004]

The fact that this thread was about just cleaning up the planet is also being missed.

Do you want Mercury in your food?

How about lead or arsenic ?

What about the millions of other deadly chemicals we pour all over this planet daily without concern for our children ?

When I was a kid I could safely go to my local city field and stream and play. Once in a while we found a tire.

Today I wouldn't dare let my son to play in a nearby field as most have discarded TV set's, Monitors, Batteries, Garbage Bags of who knows what.. We have turned this planet into our personal dump..

 

[L Gilbert]

Try living deep in a large city and see how you can do all those things. You can't. Not without expense. Try purchasing organic products and just see how expensive it is. I may be quite wrong but I have to wonder exactly what a person is saving by buying organic bananas, pineapple, papaya, and anything else with a thick peel or rind. Things like canteloupe are sold by the pound/kg. You are going to peel that and toss it in the trash. Why would you pay the price? I've had young people come in and every item in their grocery order is either organic or re-cycled. Organic is expensive and so is re-cycled. Remember when re-cyclying first started and it was cheaper to buy re-cycled until someone realized they could show everyone they were saving the earth. Now like all things green - it costs more. It's like "less sodium" soups. They put in less product but charge you more for it. In other words, financially speaking, they charge us to live healthy and to look after the environment. We would all do it better if they eased off in what they can make off it. Even if they only charged the same. Greed destroys all. The "money man" for every company is at least partly responsible for the expenses we incur and the excesses we incur.

As I said, "If you have an apartment in the middle of a city and only get your stuff from stores, yes "organic" is expensive. " However when I was living in an apartment in Cloneville, BC, I was still growing veggies on my balcony. For instance, I prefer tomatoes to actually taste like something rather than the tasteless red things you get from the grocery store. I even grew a few carrots there. People in the middle of NYC have gardens on the roofs or their apartment buildings.

In 40 years when there is 9 billion people, how expensive do you think food will be? How plentiful will it be?

It's just a matter of actually THINKING about how you live and how you can change. Most people are too lazy to do that, though.

If we DON'T change how we treat the planet, everything will be massively more expensive later than if we started behaving responsibly towards the planet.

 

[VanIsle]

As I said, "If you have an apartment in the middle of a city and only get your stuff from stores, yes "organic" is expensive. " However when I was living in an apartment in Cloneville, BC, I was still growing veggies on my balcony. For instance, I prefer tomatoes to actually taste like something rather than the tasteless red things you get from the grocery store. I even grew a few carrots there. People in the middle of NYC have gardens on the roofs or their apartment buildings.

In 40 years when there is 9 billion people, how expensive do you think food will be? How plentiful will it be?

It's just a matter of actually THINKING about how you live and how you can change. Most people are too lazy to do that, though.

If we DON'T change how we treat the planet, everything will be massively more expensive later than if we started behaving responsibly towards the planet.

Not fair. How many hours in the day can each person give? Yes there are lazy people. If I spend over 8 hours a day on my feet stuffing everyone's bags with food, clean my own house and all that goes with it, look after my grandkids two days a week, I'm spent. Yes the home grown stuff tastes way better but not all of us have the luxury of the time it takes to grow it. All of us or at least most of us, want some down time.

 

[Francis2004]

In 40 years when there is 9 billion people, how expensive do you think food will be.

Isn't that staggering but not surprising and most of them will be in Asia?

It's just a matter of actually THINKING about how you live and how you can change. Most people are too lazy to do that, though.

Greed..

If we DON'T change how we treat the planet, everything will be massively more expensive later than if we started behaving responsibly towards the planet.

Basic point I am trying to make. This does not include the added health costs we will face.

 

[Francis2004]

Not fair. How many hours in the day can each person give? Yes there are lazy people. If I spend over 8 hours a day on my feet stuffing everyone's bags with food, clean my own house and all that goes with it, look after my grandkids two days a week, I'm spent. Yes the home grown stuff tastes way better but not all of us have the luxury of the time it takes to grow it. All of us or at least most of us, want some down time.

Islandpacific, then you have the choice of helping by keeping the planet a bit more clean. If we do that and help by keeping even our little spaces clean in our neighbourhoods it will give that more space for those who can make "community gardens" and produce more food as an example.

You have the choice and option. No one is forcing you as much as no one forces you to clean your house. But do you want to live in a filth infested house or do you make the time ? It will come down to food and health issues in the long run..

 

[Tyr]

In 40 years when there is 9 billion people, how expensive do you think food will be.

Isn't that staggering but not surprising and most of them will be in Asia?

It's just a matter of actually THINKING about how you live and how you can change. Most people are too lazy to do that, though.

Greed..

If we DON'T change how we treat the planet, everything will be massively more expensive later than if we started behaving responsibly towards the planet.

Basic point I am trying to make. This does not include the added health costs we will face.

In 40 years when there is 9 billion people, how expensive do you think food will be.

It won't be a matter of expense. Those that have, will survive and those that don't, won't. Those that have the "power" will take.

Climate change is far from a hoax and anybody with any kind of intelligence can discern that.

 

[L Gilbert]

Not fair. How many hours in the day can each person give?

Not fair? What in life IS fair?
Wanna know something? I spend a lot fewer hours of the day in front of the tv and more out in the garden than I used to and I like it that way. Not only am I rewarded with better health, but I am rewarded with food that tastes like something. And on top of that, I have a healthy respect for food because I know what it takes to grow from seed to the point where I can eat it. People don'
t even think about where their food comes from or how long it takes to grow, or what goes into growing it. they just grab a package offf the shelf, open it cook it, eat it, and toss out what's left.

Yes there are lazy people. If I spend over 8 hours a day on my feet stuffing everyone's bags with food, clean my own house and all that goes with it, look after my grandkids two days a week, I'm spent. Yes the home grown stuff tastes way better but not all of us have the luxury of the time it takes to grow it. All of us or at least most of us, want some down time.

Then I'd say you need to figure out how to have more energy. Sitting in front of the puter on your down time will not give you more energy. As I said, you need to spend a little time thinking about how you can change.

 

[Francis2004]

Climate change is far from a hoax and anybody with any kind of intelligence can discern that.

Strongly urge you to read my first post..