Western Values : What are they?

[MagnoliaApples]

I've been reading peoples posts saying that they believe in their 'western values' and that other people who come into this country should abandon their own customs and values to comply to those of Western society but yet they never give examples of what they are?

So i am asking : What are these values and customs that others can join in with us? What does western society truely value?

 

[hermanntrude]

self, money, quality of life, apparant freedom, security

 

[L Gilbert]

Hating Ottawa.
The variety of sub-cultures we have in BC; Native (well over 60 different ones there alone), Chinese, Indian, Doukhobor, etc.
Salmon fishing. Trout fishing. Steelhead fishing.
Hunting.
Glacier tours.
Hot springs.
Skiing.
Technological developments such as daytime running lights.
etc.
We're a playground for the world.
We are known all over for things like those and it is embedded in our culture.

 

[MagnoliaApples]

I appreciate your answer but these are not unique to our country and are hardly considered values. These are fun and exciting activities that you can partake in as a citizen of this country or a tourist.

And technological developments such as daytime running lights, as handy as they are, this is not something we are well known for.

Good effort but it doesn't answer my question.

 

[Tonington]

Whethor or not our values are unique to us doesn't negate the fact that they are western values. Western values is a vague notion, and each country is going to have some combination in varying proportions of those common values.

To Gilbert's list I would add things like water sports and leisure. We're lucky to have many areas across this nation with beutiful lakes, rivers and oceanfront. If those things were to disappear there would be many who miss them.

Our reliance on natural resources makes for some areas in this country where the value of hard work is something an individual feels proud about, it's part of the identity for many people.

As I said, none of these values are unique to us, but they do represent a fraction of our own "western values".

 

[I think not]

The three pillars of Western Values are:

Greek Philosophy
Roman Law
Christianity

 

[tamarin]

Western values in North America mean you'll learn to speak English, honour the rule of law in community life, support your community through co-operation with its chief institutions, civil, law enforcement (police) and educational. That you'll be ambitious and work hard. And be a role model for your children.
Western life is fragile. Those groups that can't support its basic expectations shouldn't come here. Or be allowed in.

 

[I think not]

Western values is a vague notion, and each country is going to have some combination in varying proportions of those common values.

They are not vague at all. There are variations, but the core value system in which all of Western societies have emerged are, as I mentioned above;

Greek Philosophy, Christianity and Roman Law.

Justinian codes became the core system of the Byzantine Empire that later influenced all of Continental Europe and of course later on, the Americas.

Secular sciences of today can be traced back to the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, all the way back to the Greek Philosophers. Greeks taught us how to use reason and logic.

I assume Christianity doesn't need an explanation as to how it has influenced Western values.

 

[Tonington]

From my experience most new comers I've met have embraced those values listed above. Of course they retain parts of their culture, as well they should. One of my mothers best friends is an Indo-Chinese woman, she owns two businesses, sleeps maybe 4 hours a night, wakes up early to do her engraving work, and is a big part of her Weslyan Church.

Their favorite activity is to get a coffee at Tim Horton's and drive out to our lighthouse where the waves crash against the rocks, quite a spectacular place.

 

[darkbeaver]

The three pillars of Western Values are:

Greek Philosophy
Roman Law
Christianity

ITN provides the key to understanding modern western values, he has exemplified the western dependance on mythology as a substitute for the reality of the extant value system that may be labled western.
I would venture these as western values.
Imperialism,
War,
Deciet,
Sloth,
Delusion,
Suicide.

 

[Tonington]

They are not vague at all. There are variations, but the core value system in which all of Western societies have emerged are, as I mentioned above;

Greek Philosophy, Christianity and Roman Law.

Justinian codes became the core system of the Byzantine Empire that later influenced all of Continental Europe and of course later on, the Americas.

Secular sciences of today can be traced back to the Enlightenment, the Renaissance, all the way back to the Greek Philosophers. Greeks taught us how to use reason and logic.

I assume Christianity doesn't need an explanation as to how it has influenced Western values.

Those are definitely the pillars for our western societies, no doubt about that. But I was referring to a different set of values. I value my safety and security here, but if someone asked me about my values, they would be more like the things Gilbert and I listed, as well as some familly traditions. I don't feel the need to list our laws, as I think the majority of law-abiding citizens understand.

The pillars provide a framework really. If a familly immigrates here, they wouldn't be able to bring values of the sort that go against the framework we have here.

 

[Curiosity]

LOL ITN

I could hear the brakes screeching as I read your first post.....

Stunning fact isn't it? Absolute simplicity.

 

[hermanntrude]

ITN provides the key to understanding modern western values, he has exemplified the western dependance on mythology as a substitute for the reality of the extant value system that may be labled western.
I would venture these as western values.
Imperialism,
War,
Deciet,
Sloth,
Delusion,
Suicide.

come now. think about it. how many people value suicide? how many people really truly value war? or deceit? ok some people seem rather keen on sloth and delusion. but you can't be thinking very clearly if you actually believe suicide is a western value. I think you were just trying to cause insult.

 

[MikeyDB]

LOL ITN

I could hear the brakes screeching as I read your first post.....

Stunning fact isn't it? Absolute simplicity.

Absolutely simplisitc perhaps. I certainly hope we're not going to hear anything more about the barbarism of the Islamic folk if the description of "western values" is credited to the Greeks who supported slavery, who practiced what we'd call sexual perversion today.. and the Roman Empire that behaved exaclty the same way as modern day America....

In theory, the influences of ancient civilizations is something a culture and a people out-grow. We don't have the same world today as the Greeks or the Romans. If the best that we can come up with in explaining how the outrages of modern society continute and persist, we haven't evolved psychologically at all..and then justly deserve beginning the lemmings march...

 

[hermanntrude]

mikey, ITN said greek philosophy, not greek sexual practises. He also said Roman justice, not roman decadence.

He's probably right. You definately arent.

 

[darkbeaver]

come now. think about it. how many people value suicide? how many people really truly value war? or deceit? ok some people seem rather keen on sloth and delusion. but you can't be thinking very clearly if you actually believe suicide is a western value. I think you were just trying to cause insult.

Is it not somehow suicidal to destroy the planet?
Warfare is a perenial favorite.
Misinformation and propaganda are main ingrediant of western media, that's deciet.

While we hear much about the wonders of western values, we deliver nothing but war,starvation and poverty, Therfore these things must form the basis of our value system.
It would be more correct to speak of western prices than western values.


:wave:

 

[MikeyDB]

Herm

Are you suggesting that the Industrial revolution didn't happen? Are you suggesting that the technology of the twenty-first century limits and hobbles humankind to parameters similar to the ancient Greek and Roman societies?

Suggesting that Greek philosophy is one of our values is probably correct but making the assumption that that philosophy has proven successful is a stretch..

Are you familiar at all with the fight that women had to get the vote..or Jews or any of the struggles that western civilizations went through to disassemble the patriarchy and prejudices of the Greeks and Romans? How about slave trade...have we decided that's the course we wish to continue? The benefits of a philosophy that leads to self-destruction are in my opinion highly dubious.

 

[hermanntrude]

suicide, planetary over personal, is not a VALUE but something people are doing because a)they're lazy b)they dont know what else to do c) there arent amny alternatives anyway

warfare is not something a normal, average western person values. I admit there are some but i wouldnt call it a western value. It happens a lot but because of the powerful few rather than the masses and because of there being no alternative in some cases

you are corrent. misinformation and propaganda are very common in the media in the west. Totally correct. But it's not a western value, it's a media value, and most of the people in the media dont even like it, but just know they have to propagate it to continue their jobs.

I think you are wrong. I think that western values just dont meet up with western actions and outcomes. We all value the nicer things, but environmental forces prevent them from being implemented.

 

[hermanntrude]

Herm

Are you suggesting that the Industrial revolution didn't happen? Are you suggesting that the technology of the twenty-first century limits and hobbles humankind to parameters similar to the ancient Greek and Roman societies?

Suggesting that Greek philosophy is one of our values is probably correct but making the assumption that that philosophy has proven successful is a stretch..

Are you familiar at all with the fight that women had to get the vote..or Jews or any of the struggles that western civilizations went through to disassemble the patriarchy and prejudices of the Greeks and Romans? How about slave trade...have we decided that's the course we wish to continue? The benefits of a philosophy that leads to self-destruction are in my opinion highly dubious.

i am not suggesting these things, and i never suggested they were successful either.

ITN was suggesting on a less pedantic note than yours, that the basis of our values come from the greek way of thinking (logically), the roman way of judging legality (crazily and with bias to men), and christianity (i wont discuss that here, we're doing pretty well in the christian discussion forum).

I admit things have changed since the implementation of such values but they are so strongly intact that ITN's was a valid statement

 

[MikeyDB]

Sure he does and I have no argument with the observation, I'd simply like to point out that a civilization/society that embraces the credoes and thinking of empires that failed is most likely assurred of following the same route.

Pointing out that "western values" proceed from the Greeks and the Romans is only true in the context of an extremely academic perspective. Western values are the values of the greed driven...and if you're suggesting that this drive is a Greek drive or a Roman drive...thats horsepucky. The drive to take what doesn't belong to you, to practice war on those who deny you what you think you are "entitled to have" (because you're prepared to enslave millions and practice war on them is a human drive. It is the "drive" of the beast in the wilderness and the rule of ...as Plato in his Republic stated..."Who has the power has the right.."

Not in "right" as a concept applying to the human condition, but the right of the strong to compel the weak the right of the powerful to enslave and marginalize everyone and anyone else...

Plato was talking about the human condition....

A condition that's reinforced by those with power to subjugate...

The world is ruled not by Greek principles or Roman principles, it's ruled by a select few who don't really enjoy a vison much beyond their own aggrandizement and wealth.

This conversation appears to be pointless..

"Western values" are as akin to Greek or Roman "values" as the earth is akin to Mars....