US taking World economy to brink proves Canadian government system better

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Of course and this debt was created by just about everyone (not just politicians) over the past 200 years or so. Think about it, what can be done to fix it, no one country can do it and not even the world working cooperatively will accomplish it within the next 100 years. This debt will be with us and the world for a long long time. But we have to start doing something without causing riots over food and sources of good medical care.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Of course you can fix it. We turned our countries finances around. Services were cut, and we increased revenues with taxes. It wasn't popular, but the way things were going, well you're feeling it now.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Unfortunately 20+ trillion dollars is well beyond what taxing the 53% of Americans who pay taxes, Nearly half of U.S. households do not pay federal income tax. "About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization." It will be painful removing items that are now exempt, home mortgage interest, Yes, tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barrack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic recovery package last year. The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.
We all know these figures have not gotten any better under President Obama's tutelage, and won't till after the 2012 elections. This will be a long and painful process.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
With all the ridiculous, childish behavior being displayed in the US Congress and Senate while they try to resolve an issue that MUST be resolved, it has given me much more faith in the type of political system that Canada has. I honestly believe that all this political feather rustling is shameful in the States. Here they are, the worlds largest economy on the brink of not being able to pay its debts and the politicians are playing unforgiveable dangerous games that could have a huge negative effect on many of the economies of the world.

At least in Canada something would be done.....either a majority a party could decide a course of action to take, take it and be held responsible for their decision or with a minority, a ruling party could be defeated and sent to an election!

In the US you get multi-millionaire politicians playing games to keep their nice jobs in DC, their pensions and all the other perks, while arguing that there should be cuts on social spending BUT NO taxes for the weathy!!??!!

I am sorry, but in Canada I am proud to say that I am a Conservative, but I would NEVER vote for the Republicans if I were a US citizen. The democrats to me (while there are some serious left wing loonies!) at least seem to me trying to make some concessions to appese the Republicans(and therefore prevent the US from defaulting).

The problem seems to be that the majority of Republicans have signed on to the Grover Norquist "No New Taxes" Pledge. Now rather than be called out as liars by Grover, these Republican politicians would rather send the US into default and cause tumultuous times for the world economies rather than vote for a plan that reduces public spending and raises some extra capital via closing tax loopholes and taxing the wealthy and save the US credit rating! Are they mad??? Sounds like there need to be a lot of recalls on these Congressmen/women and Senators who are holding the US economy to ransom.

The only difference is that you do not have Obama. In 2012 he will be all yours, grandfather him in and let him be a Canadian citizen.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
The only difference is that you do not have Obama. In 2012 he will be all yours, grandfather him in and let him be a Canadian citizen.
If you are going to deport Obama here, where are you going to send Bush and Cheney? Somalia?

You republicans get sillier all the time!
 

Fingertrouble

Electoral Member
Nov 8, 2006
150
1
18
55
Calgary
Here I am, a Canadian Conservative who 100% agrees with Cliffy. I would be proud to have Obama here in Canada, but I am afraid I couldnt even bring myself to send Bush and especially Cheney to Guantanimo.......as it would be to good for them. Shame they don't do nuclear tests anymore, a 'good old boys club' meeting with Bush and Cheney as guests of honour at a nuclear test site just prior to the test sounds good to me.

Unfortunately 20+ trillion dollars is well beyond what taxing the 53% of Americans who pay taxes, Nearly half of U.S. households do not pay federal income tax. "About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization." It will be painful removing items that are now exempt, home mortgage interest, Yes, tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barrack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic recovery package last year. The result is a tax system that exempts almost half the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone, including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners -- households making an average of $366,400 in 2006 -- paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.
We all know these figures have not gotten any better under President Obama's tutelage, and won't till after the 2012 elections. This will be a long and painful process.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
The Tea party won't let it happen and the Republicans in general are afraid to do it for fear of repercussions from signing that stupid "no tax" decree, but raising revenues has to be included in reducing the deficit.

Low income families are not going to pay much in taxes, so your statement is pretty obvious. What are you going to do, raise their taxes and push them even further below the poverty line? In this economy you need the middle class to spend their money to spur the economy and a slight tax cut that they had isn't breaking the bank, but the Billions of dollars in cuts to the wealthy's taxes is breaking the bank.

Not only do taxes need to be raised for the more financially fortunate, but JOBS has to be the major priority, as JOBS alone can havens huge positive effect on amount of revenue brought in. Then there need to be level heads who sensibly cut areas of the budget too. A mixed approach has to happen in the end, the Republicans can't hide from this fact without damaging the US. they need to wake up and think of their county for once, rather than their next re-election campaign.
 
Last edited:

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Here I am, a Canadian Conservative who 100% agrees with Cliffy. I would be proud to have Obama here in Canada, but I am afraid I couldnt even bring myself to send Bush and especially Cheney to Guantanimo.......

Guantanamo? Is that still open? I thought Obama was going to close that place.

Shame they don't do nuclear tests anymore, a 'good old boys club' meeting with Bush and Cheney as guests of honour at a nuclear test site just prior to the test sounds good to me.

So another liberal speaking about executing others that they don't like. I would bet you are against Capital Punishment too.



Low income families are not going to pay much in taxes,

Based on what?

What are you going to do, raise their taxes and push them even further below the poverty line?

Is that what he said? The GOP does not any taxes to be raised for anyone. The Dems want to get their hands on people's money that they earned and not cut this bloated government. Spending is out of control.


Not only do taxes need to be raised for the more financially fortunate,

So they can keep the bloated government working and keep giving ridiculous handouts... like to the Cowboy Poetry Festival? Yes I am sure the poor need the Cowboy Poetry Festivals well fiananced to exist.

. A mixed approach has to happen in the end, the Republicans can't hide from this fact without damaging the US. they need to wake up and think of their county for once, rather than their next re-election campaign.

Both sides worry about their seats. Don't be blind.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
Is Canada immune to economic collapse in U.S?


OTTAWA - Canadians are rightfully asking themselves whether the Canadian economy is headed for a cliff if the United States falls to recession so soon after the last one. Do we hit the rocks together, or is our safety net still holding?

While Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty warn of tough times ahead, they also point to the last recession a few years ago and how Canada walked away with a few bruises but no broken bones, like the Americans. Don't panic now, they say.

But the pain train is revving if the hobbled U.S. economy is heading to what is called a double-dip recession, Europe continues its nose-dive and other global markets struggle.

Will it be a Tylenol 3 or an Aspirin for the pain?

"It is true that we are in excellent financial and fiscal shape if you compare us with any of our trading partners, but that doesn't mean we are going to be exempt from any negative implications arising in the global economy," says Queen's University economics professor Tom Courchene.

What's in store? Experts say higher interest rates and job losses, many in the private sector, as U.S. demand for Canadian goods wanes. The U.S. is Canada's largest export market.

Fear also drives down the economy as consumers tighten their belts, hold off on purchases and, in some cases, unload their stocks to seek a safe haven - which many are doing by buying American greenbacks, and that is driving down the value of the high-flying loonie.

The surge in the popularity of U.S. currency is a sign of international confidence in the U.S. in the face of one rating agency's decision to lower Washington's triple-A credit rating last week.

Those dollar stores and no-name items sell briskly when things are rocky, but things like cars, homes and appliances not so much - leaving manufacturers little choice but to lay off workers. Then the ripple effect pinches retail outlets, advertising and even media organizations.

One of the economic drivers of the Canadian economy has been the Alberta oilsands. But a threat lurks if the price of oil on international markets slides below the cost of extracting the thick crude.

"There is a point at which the oilsands become unprofitable, but at the same time the reason that oil is falling is because of lower demand," says Courchene, past president of the Canadian Economics Association and former senior fellow at the C.D. Howe Institute.

"They'll get hurt on both counts because there is a lower demand and, secondly, it might fall below their breakeven point (to produce)."
China has overtaken the Americans as the largest buyer of Canadian lumber, but if the housing market overseas flattens or tumbles, as it has done in the U.S., more jobs would be on the line.

With 6% inflation in China, observers are watching the situation closely and the potential impact here if Chinese demand for Canadian lumber, potash and other natural resources declines.

Is Canada immune to economic collapse in U.S? | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,466
11,481
113
Low Earth Orbit
Soon we'll have an international currency and all the troubles will miraculously vanish.

Is Canada immune to economic collapse in U.S?


OTTAWA - Canadians are rightfully asking themselves whether the Canadian economy is headed for a cliff if the United States falls to recession so soon after the last one. Do we hit the rocks together, or is our safety net still holding?
Wakie wakie hands off snakie! Recession? It's been a Depression for 3 years already. So things are going to get better and it'll only be a recession?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
Hoyer: US economic crisis won't effect promises to Israel

The current economic crisis in the US will have no impact at all on US financial assistance to Israel, US Congressman Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said Thursday. However, the Democratic Whip, is leading the delegation of 26 US congressmen on a one week visit to Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

At a press conference in Jerusalem, Hoyer said he wanted to make it "very clear" that no financial challenges faced in the US "will have any adverse effect on American determination to meet its promise to Israel in the form of aid for its qualitative [military] superiority, or for its economic security."

Hoyer said he did not believe that in any way the financial challenges confronting America "would have any adverse effect on the economic relationship, or assistance, we give to Israel." Hoyer said this assessment is bipartisan and that a similar message will be brought to Israel next week when House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) will head up two republican delegations, numbering 55 congressmen, that will visit the country.

http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=233256


To follow Canada’s example, U.S. tax reform essential

It’s not often the United States looks to Canada as a model, except in hockey.

But Americans could use a hefty dose of Canada right now as they grapple with reckless budget deficits and the aftershocks of Friday’s debt downgrade by Standard & Poor's. “American policy makers might learn a thing or two from Canada’s patient, hysteria-free pruning,” The New York Times pointed out recently.

The newspaper went on to applaud Canada’s “thoughtful” review of government spending in the mid-1990s that saw the country pare its debt without sacrificing economic growth.

But it isn’t just spending cuts that dug Canada out of debt trouble. Tax reform, including the contentious introduction of the goods and services tax in 1991, provided Ottawa with a surge of revenue, without hitting up wage earners and businesses.

Americans must similarly get used to the unpalatable notion of getting less from their government, and paying more for it.

There’s a yawning gap between the government Americans have now – the large military plus generous health and pensions benefits – and the one they’re willing to pay for.

Government expenditures, including state and local, are running at 41.2 per cent of GDP in 2011, roughly similar to Canada’s 42-per-cent ratio, according to the International Monetary Fund’s April fiscal monitor.

It’s a very different story on the revenue side. The United States collects just 30.5 per cent of GDP in revenue to pay for its big government. The ratio in Canada is 37.4 per cent, or roughly in line with the average of 35.6 per cent among advanced economies.

Last week’s debt ceiling deal doesn’t confront this unsustainable mismatch. And there’s scant evidence of a thoughtful debate as a special 12-member U.S. congressional committee prepares to find an extra $1.5-trillion (U.S.) worth of spending cuts or tax hikes. The committee must report by the end of November, which leaves little time to forge a national consensus.

Tax hikes are a non-starter for most Republicans. And many Democrats won’t accept the fact that future generations may not get the same Social Security and Medicare benefits that current retirees enjoy.

It’s pretty clear where the United States must go. Numerous bipartisan commissions and tax forces have laid out a roadmap. But getting there won’t be without pain. There will be major spending cuts, and nothing should be off the table, including the military and entitlement programs.

If there’s going to be an honest effort to get government spending and revenue in sync, tax hikes must also be a key part of the solution.

Hard as it may be for many Americans to swallow, they’ll probably have to sacrifice some popular tax breaks, lose some universality via means-testing and, ultimately, pay higher taxes and fees. The net result will be a system that looks a lot more like Canada – a hybrid between the European and North American models. The upside may be a narrower gap between rich and poor.

Atop the hit list of tax breaks to scrap is the $100-billion-a-year mortgage interest deduction. The tax break is one of the root causes of the now-burst housing bubble. And it’s proven to be a poor way to encourage homeownership. In Canada, where there is no tax break, the rate of homeownership is actually slightly higher (68 per cent versus 67 per cent). And unlike the United States, where the deduction encourages overleverage and overspending, Canadians have a strong incentive to pay down their mortgages as fast as possible.

The $700-billion a year Bush-era tax cuts must also go because they overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy in a country that already has virtually the largest income inequality gap in the OECD, the club of the world’s richest countries.

Another healthy step would be an honest debate about Social Security and Medicare. Americans must eventually pay more in premiums and get less in return – just as Canadians did to save the Canada Pension Plan.

And like Canada, the U.S. should also raise taxes on consumption and cut rates on production. Right-wing activist Grover Norquist, president of Americans For Tax Reform, is fond of saying that vale-added tax is “French for big government.” But it’s also Canadian for competitiveness, allowing this country to lessen the relative tax burden on businesses and wage earners.

No wealthy country generates less from taxes on goods and services than Americans – 4.6 per cent of GDP versus 7.6 per cent in Canada. The ratio in many European countries is north of 10 per cent.

And finally, raising rock-bottom U.S. fuel and alcohol taxes would bring in much-needed revenue, while also discouraging consumption.

The way out need not be bigger government, as many Republicans fear. It’s about saving the best of the government the U.S. has now.

The health of the global economy depends on Americans doing the right thing.


To follow Canada’s example, U.S. tax reform essential - The Globe and Mail


Of course you can fix it. We turned our countries finances around. Services were cut, and we increased revenues with taxes. It wasn't popular, but the way things were going, well you're feeling it now.

What the heck happened to us in 2008?
 
Last edited:

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Here I am, a Canadian Conservative who 100% agrees with Cliffy. I would be proud to have Obama here in Canada, but I am afraid I couldnt even bring myself to send Bush and especially Cheney to Guantanimo.......as it would be to good for them. Shame they don't do nuclear tests anymore, a 'good old boys club' meeting with Bush and Cheney as guests of honour at a nuclear test site just prior to the test sounds good to me.


The Tea party won't let it happen and the Republicans in general are afraid to do it for fear of repercussions from signing that stupid "no tax" decree, but raising revenues has to be included in reducing the deficit.

Low income families are not going to pay much in taxes, so your statement is pretty obvious. What are you going to do, raise their taxes and push them even further below the poverty line? In this economy you need the middle class to spend their money to spur the economy and a slight tax cut that they had isn't breaking the bank, but the Billions of dollars in cuts to the wealthy's taxes is breaking the bank.

Not only do taxes need to be raised for the more financially fortunate, but JOBS has to be the major priority, as JOBS alone can havens huge positive effect on amount of revenue brought in. Then there need to be level heads who sensibly cut areas of the budget too. A mixed approach has to happen in the end, the Republicans can't hide from this fact without damaging the US. they need to wake up and think of their county for once, rather than their next re-election campaign.

Your wish is granted. You give far to much power to a minority unofficial political party that may only appear on a few local ballot, not enough to make a difference nationally in 2012. Just because a person does not like what Obama is doing does not make them part of that (do I dare say it) part of a "Tea Party" wave that is not sweeping the country. It will be Republicans or Democrats who win in 2012.


Are you a flike/flake.

Obama: The Flake
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,362
60
48
Would venture , that there are a lot more reasons than just the latest USG mismanagement and sandbox mentality that demonstrates the Canadian system is superior.

That is not to say that it is perfect or without problems. But then one is hard pressed to find any gov't system that is "perfect" for everyone. That is not even realistic. One thing that comes through more obviously now .....is that both the Cdn G and its population are a lot more grounded and realistic.

suspect that the underlying factor is that Cda does not go flag waving crazy like a bunch of hypnotized zombies. Canadians are still able to THINK for themselves and opine their thoughts in factual / logical ways.

(ok.....that is a generalization........but overall it still applies. )

Getting the impression that Harper is starting to wake up to the fact that extreme caution is needed when dealing with the combustable USofA. We MUST become less dependant on the US and more interactive/ with the world at large. Noises are being made re: that regard.

what we need to be very careful about is making sure we prevent the fanatical boasting, lofty , arrogance that is killing the neighbor to the south. We are fortunate in the sense that we have an example to the south of what we should NEVER become.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,466
11,481
113
Low Earth Orbit
We have two lackies from GoldmanSucks running the Bank of Canada. That pisses me off and i don't trust them AT ALL.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,362
60
48
from finger:

, but I am afraid I couldnt even bring myself to send Bush and especially Cheney to Guantanimo.......as it would be to good for them. Shame they don't do nuclear tests anymore, a 'good old boys club' meeting with Bush and Cheney as guests of honour at a nuclear test site just prior to the test sounds good to me.


YES!!! the bush/cheney criminal combo is awfully quiet as the economy goes south , riots are starting, and the stock market has gone nuts. Probably just as well, that they are hiding somewhere... on their multi million dollar properties. They are the original bad news boys. Their collective " evil" has contributed to what is happening today.