US Executes 1000th person

[Colpy]

Now here is a philosophical debate in the making.......

Do you believe in the existence of evil?

I do.

Having read much history, and much current events, I think it is hard not to see evil as a force.

I mean, you don't have to be dysfunctyional to become involved. For instance, how could one say a very large portion of the Hutu population of Rwanda was "dysfunctional"?

They certainly carried out evil acts.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

Murdering Stanley Williams was a travesty of justice - the man was a textbook example of what could be achieved through rehabilitation; he'd long since repudiated his violent lifestyle and had spent years educating young people as to the dangers of gang life. He in 2005 received a US presidential service award from the President's Council on Service and Civic Participation, for his work in this field.

It seems far from the case that Williams' guilt was proven beyond reasonable doubt (never mind ANY doubt); the case against him rested on testimony from accomplices in the crime and jailhouse informants who supposedly overheard his confession, and who were facing imprisonment or the death penalty themselves, but who all received reduced sentences or even freedom in exchange for their testimony.

(There are also concerns in some quarters about racial discrimination within the trial process itself. Williams was tried in an area where only one per cent of the jury pool was black. The trial prosecutor had all Afro-Americans removed from the jury).

Williams had become a positive influence and killing him in this manner may well prove to have a negative impact in a country already beset by racial tension: He'll be portrayed as a trophy by some and a martyr by others. The strong suspicion that Schwartzenegger had conservative Republican voters in mind when he took his decision won't help, either.

 

[no1important]

RE: US Executes 1000th pe

Reply with quote
Murdering Stanley Williams was a travesty of justice - the man was a textbook example of what could be achieved through rehabilitation; he'd long since repudiated his violent lifestyle and had spent years educating young people as to the dangers of gang life

It seems far from the case that Williams' guilt was proven beyond reasonable doubt (never mind ANY doubt); the case against him rested on testimony from accomplices in the crime and jailhouse informants who supposedly overheard his confession, and who were facing imprisonment or the death penalty themselves, but who all received reduced sentences or even freedom in exchange for their testimony.

(There are also concerns in some quarters about racial discrimination within the trial process itself. Williams was tried in an area where only one per cent of the jury pool was black. The trial prosecutor had all Afro-Americans removed from the jury).

For those reasons his sentance should of been commuted to life. I also believe his case should of been re opened to look for any "prosocutorial misconduct" or any thing that looked a bit suspicious.

I agree he was not a nice guy, but he did turn his life around, he was writing books and educating young people on why to stay out of gangs. He should of been allowed to continue that. He could of been a positive influence on many more lives and it is sad society has lost that.

Of course if he was rich or a rich white guy he would more than likely never would of seen an inside of a cell, let alone being on death row.

Capital Punishment is nothing more than state sanctioned murder and revenge. It is very barbaric that the state can play "god".

 

[Colpy]

It seems far from the case that Williams' guilt was proven beyond reasonable doubt (never mind ANY doubt); the case against him rested on testimony from accomplices in the crime and jailhouse informants who supposedly overheard his confession, and who were facing imprisonment or the death penalty themselves, but who all received reduced sentences or even freedom in exchange for their testimony.
.

Well, the rest I don't much care about, except for this.

If the mass of evidence was testimony was from jailhouse informants and from accomplices, then you are absolutely correct.

The threshold of proof has not been met, and the man's execution should not have taken place.

Which doesn't mean he was innocent.

 

[missile]

Every single convict in prison says they are innocent. Just ask any one of them More than likely,the scumbag did do the 4 murders,and the only injustice was the length of time it took to put him to death.

 

[missile]

I don't know just how long that man was on Death Row,but consider every day he spent there torture of the nth degree. After a while,he must have welcomed his execution

 

[Colpy]

I don't know just how long that man was on Death Row,but consider every day he spent there torture of the nth degree. After a while,he must have welcomed his execution

If I remember correctly, he was arrested in 1979.

Crazy, ain't it?

It is almost like two sentences......a Canadian life sentence, and when that is over.............to the gas chamber!

 

[DasFX]

Murdering Stanley Williams was a travesty of justice - the man was a textbook example of what could be achieved through rehabilitation; he'd long since repudiated his violent lifestyle and had spent years educating young people as to the dangers of gang life. He in 2005 received a US presidential service award from the President's Council on Service and Civic Participation, for his work in this field.

That is all fine and dandy, but what about the 4 people he killed? Who knows what kind of good they could have brought to this world? In the end he was found to be a multi-murderer.

I see that he was reformed and did try to make amends, but I can't feel too bad for him. I mean, I personally avoid being executed and incarcerated by following the law and so far it seems to have worked pretty well for me.

 

[DasFX]

Williams was tried in an area where only one per cent of the jury pool was black. The trial prosecutor had all Afro-Americans removed from the jury.

So you think that the all white jury were a bunch of racists and that is why they found this black man guilty. I mean if these Caucasians had found him not guilty, there would be no question of racism.

If it had been an all African-American jury who found him not guilty, wouldn't that be racism as well?

 

[mrmom2]

This guy had his day in court many many times .He's responsible for the murder of 4 people and the creation of one of the US 's most violent gangs the Crips 8O I'm not for the death sentence but if thats the law at the time of his crimes then thats what ya have to pay .Ya do the crime ya pays the time .How about the victims familys how much shit have they been put through on this case the guy was tried in 4 different states and found guilty in everyone .

 

[MMMike]

Williams was tried in an area where only one per cent of the jury pool was black. The trial prosecutor had all Afro-Americans removed from the jury.

So you think that the all white jury were a bunch of racists and that is why they found this black man guilty. I mean if these Caucasians had found him not guilty, there would be no question of racism.

If it had been an all African-American jury who found him not guilty, wouldn't that be racism as well?

You have the right to be judged by a jury of your peers. In this case that should at least include a number of blacks, no?

 

[#juan]

Shades of O.J.....In reverse... :wink:

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

So you think that the all white jury were a bunch of racists and that is why they found this black man guilty.

I think you twisted my words just a tad there, Das.

 

[DasFX]

You have the right to be judged by a jury of your peers. In this case that should at least include a number of blacks, no?

No, not necessarily. If I were brought to trial where I live, I wouldn't necessarily expect there to be 12, or a majority, or any East Indians on the jury. Peers simply mean people from the community. When selecting a jury, it isn't important to base it on demographics. I thought Justice was blind?

 

[DasFX]

So you think that the all white jury were a bunch of racists and that is why they found this black man guilty.

I think you twisted my words just a tad there, Das.

Perhaps, but the way it was written, you implied that he did not receive a fair trial because there were no blacks on the jury, thus insinuating that an all white jury is incapable of giving a black man a fair trial, meaning that it has something to do with race, which would mean they are racist.

Like I said before, if the all white jury had found him not guilty, would we even be talking about the ethnic composition of the jury? No, but because some people didn't get the outcome they wanted, out comes the race card.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

I didn't imply or insinuate anything of the sort, Das, you inferred. What I said was - and I quote - "There are also concerns in some quarters about racial discrimination within the trial process itself." Racial discrimination exists in the U.S., whether or not you wish to deny it, and there are plenty of people who believe the jury issue - as well as other factors in the trial, let's not forget those - casts enough doubt over the conviction to make executing Williams a dubious decision.

I'd just like to say, too, that my main point had nothing to do with race - funnily enough, it was you who decided to focus on "the race card", Das - or even the accuracy of his conviction. I don't believe Williams represented a threat to society, I believe his rehabilitation was genuine and that he'd done all he could to atone for his violent lifestyle. I believe he was denied clemency more out of political expediency than any sense of justice and, if that's the case, it's a truly barbaric way to act. Killing him is to nobody's gain, apart from some morally bankrupt politicians.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=126293&region=4

so they killed him..... and what has it solved??? If the idea is to use fear of the death penalty to deter crime ......they are way off track. and don't have a clue about the humanoid .

PRIMITIVE societies consider an eye for an eye ......"justice"......and the US has shown the world in live technicolor that it is PRIMITIVE.

...........and barbaric. WARS,GUNS and DEATH penalty......do not speak of an evolved society.

 

[pastafarian]

I doubt there's any way to even guess at this, but I wonder how many lives have been saved by people who decided against the gangster life because of Mr. Williams' anti-gang activities...

 

[jimmoyer]

How many lives has this guy saved?
That may be irrelevant to the victims and the victim families.

In addition that question does take in account of how many lives he killed indirectly by creating his notorious gang of bad guys.

Also he never admitted guilt on any of the slayings.
If he did commit the act, then this lack of confession is wrong.

Also if it is true he got into a number of incidents during his imprisonment, fighting guards (were the guards the cause of it ?) then this too would go against the media image of how helpful this guy really is.

The other issue is the possibility for parole in a life sentence and the fact that most life sentences are for 20 years and for a young perpetrator this might not be satisfactory to a victim family's sense of justice.

In the end, I'm asking as many questions.

If we all read as many differing reports about this guy, the decision would be quite difficult to make, and the holes of probation and span of a life sentence don't make matters any easier.

I've never believed the death sentence had the ability to deter others from killing, but the life sentence needs to have stronger safeguards built in. We got Charles Manson applying every so often for probation, and that's scary.

The eyes have it.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Also he never admitted guilt on any of the slayings.
If he did commit the act, then this lack of confession is wrong.

maybe the lack of confession is the only "choice" he HAD left.

The man is DEAD and the word "IF" is being used about the act he allegedly committed. so where does that leave things.......or does it even matter anymore??