Two Months Before 9/11, an Urgent Warning to Rice

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
68
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Slightly off tangent, but something that makes me laugh about all this "Spreading Democracy to the Middle East". We have Tosser Tony and Gormless Gordon spouting that we need to deliver democracy to these people, make sure that their governments are "100% Democratic and 0% Faschist(sp?)".

Does someone want to point out to the Right Honerable Gentleman that Britain itself is not a Democracy?
------------------------------------------MattUK-----------------------------------------------------------------

Spreading democracy while laughable, is still one of the best antidotes to continual war.
Why ? Find me a time in history when two completely functioning democracies waged war
at each other ?

And also the soft bigotry of low expectations assumes a certain kind of
people are incapable of democratic behavior. Jung declares a collective unconscious informs
our universal desires and symbols in dreams. We lay people know that people of all kinds
want the same things. This is unfair to the Middle East. One bully, one
thug can control a 100 people on a block, as it can here.
 

MattUK

Electoral Member
Aug 11, 2006
119
0
16
UK
I never said that it was not a good thing to! I simply said that whilst we are not a democracy, it is very hard to preach to others that its what they should do.

We developed our systems over centuries, as did (albeit over a shorter and more recent time) America and Canada (I am not brilliant on political systems over the Atlantic - but I do believe that all the high ranking people are ALL elected?). These things develop over time, they are not taken off a shelf and put into place just like that. It is also made much harder in the ME as they do not always think like us, there are many religous fractions that have to be taken into consideration.

If you say that there are 4 religions in a country (for example this is), 70% of the population are Religion A, 20% Relig B and 5% each for Relig C and D. No member of parliament will be elected for the people of Relig C and D (not enough will vote for them), so it would be forced as a rule that a certain number of people from the minorities have to be elected. Well, there goes democracy again. It is not a reflection of the people (as in Direct Democracy), as there are people who have basically been given a seat in parliament.

It really is so difficult in Iraq. And I do understand that we have to do something. I am just not sure that what we are doing is right - we are dictating to them that they have to have a Democracy - what if they dont want it?

Do I have a better plan. I admit I dont.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Jeez MattUK

Are you always this negative? Is it chronic or episodic?

I'm not sure you actually want the world to end, or are hoping it might prove your posts to be accurate.
 

MattUK

Electoral Member
Aug 11, 2006
119
0
16
UK
Nah, not usually! On my own at work today - sat in an office with nobody else for 10 hours drives you up the wall!

I am just not a big fan of "punch first ask questions later" tactics, I have always thought that most things can be avoided by diplomacy. Something that seems not to bother a number of world leaders these days!

I just love open discussion.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Fair enough MattUK

Being along for ten hours would not be a great day in my book.

Discuss away.....I'm off to earn a nickel or two myself.

Sorry you are so down on "American" people. It's a tough job to dislike so many all at once.
 

MattUK

Electoral Member
Aug 11, 2006
119
0
16
UK
Actually, I like Americans. Just not the ones who seem hellbent on being President. I think American vlaues are excellent. They praise people who try hard and win. We hope they will be successful so we can plot their downfall.

Americans can all sing the national anthem. Most brits dont even know there are two verses to God Save the Queen!

Americans are all for themselves (as a nation rather than individually), they dont care what they do as long as they are making things better for themselves. In Britain, we pander to minorities and we make people redundant here and move their jobs to India!

Is there any wonder that I want to get out of this hell hole!
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061002/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/rice_5

Rice: No memory of CIA warning of attack
By ANNE GEARAN,
AP Diplomatic Writer
Mon Oct 2, 8:39 AM ET

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she cannot recall then-CIA chief George Tenet warning her of an impending al-Qaida attack in the United States, as a new book claims he did two months before the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.
"What I am quite certain of is that I would remember if I was told, as this account apparently says, that there was about to be an attack in the United States, and the idea that I would somehow have ignored that I find incomprehensible," Rice said.
Rice was President Bush's national security adviser in 2001, when Bob Woodward's book "State of Denial" outlines a July 10 meeting among Rice, Tenet and the CIA's top counterterror officer.
"I don't know that this meeting took place, but what I really don't know, what I'm quite certain of, is that it was not a meeting in which I was told there was an impending attack and I refused to respond," Rice said.
Speaking to reporters en route to Saudi Arabia and other stops in the Middle East, Rice said she met with Tenet daily at that point, and has no memory of the wake-up call from Tenet described in the book.
"It kind of doesn't ring true that you have to shock me into something I was very involved in," Rice said.
There was near constant discussion of possible attacks overseas, and high alarm, Rice said.
The meeting between Tenet, Rice and Cofer Black of the CIA was not mentioned in the reports from several investigations of the Sept. 11 attacks, but Woodward wrote that it stood out in the minds of Tenet and Black as the "starkest warning they had given the White House" on al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and his network.
Tenet asked for the meeting after receiving a disturbing briefing from Black, according to the book.
But though Tenet and Black warned Rice in the starkest terms of the prospects for attack, she brushed them off, Woodward reiterated Monday. He told NBC's "Today" show that Black told him the two men were so emphatic, it amounted to "holding a gun to her head" and doing everything except pulling the trigger.
Black reportedly laid out secret intercepts and other data "showing the increasing likelihood that al-Qaida would soon attack the United States." Tenet was so worried that he called Rice from his car and asked to see her right away, the book said.
"Tenet and Black felt they were not getting through to Rice," Woodward wrote of the session. "She was polite, but they felt the brush-off."
Rice referred to the session as "the supposed meeting" and noted that it is not part of the independent Sept. 11 Commission's report.
"I remember that George was very worried and he expressed that," Rice told reporters. "We were all very worried because the threat reporting was quite intense. The problem was that it was also quite nebulous."
Rice, who was promoted to secretary of state in Bush's second term, also said she never argued that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld should be fired. The book's suggestion that Rumsfeld would not take her calls is "ludicrous," Rice said.
Rumsfeld and Rice are not close, and he is often considered her rival in administration decision making. Woodward wrote that then-White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card twice tried to get Bush to sack Rumsfeld and replace him with Bush family counselor James A. Baker III, and that both then-Secretary of State Colin Powell and Rice backed the plan.
Woodward interviewed Rice for his new book.

Rice's latest Middle East trip is focused on strengthening support for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and other moderate Arab leaders after a series of setbacks for democratic and moderate forces in the region.
Her trip includes visits to allies Saudi Arabia and Egypt and a meeting of other friendly nations that ring the Persian Gulf, before visits to Israel and the West Bank.
Rice is looking for new ways to improve Abbas' standing in his standoff with Hamas radicals trounced Abbas' secular Fatah Party in Palestinian elections in January. Abbas was elected separately and retains his position, but he has been hamstrung by the divided government and a cutoff of Western aid.
The Bush administration and Israel are increasingly convinced Hamas will crumble, and look to Abbas to capitalize. Rice may ask other countries to do more to bolster Abbas' security forces, and she hopes to breathe life into stalled agreements and talks that would help Palestinians move more freely across their borders with Israel.
Iran's nuclear ambitions will also be part of Rice's discussions, as an unofficial deadline passes this week for Iran to heed a U.N. Security Council demand to shelve disputed nuclear activities.
Rice said Sunday she may close her trip Friday with a meeting of world powers in Europe to look at what to do next. The United States wants to press for U.N. Security Council sanctions, but it is not clear she has full support from other permanent members of the council. ___
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Actually, I like Americans. Just not the ones who seem hellbent on being President. I think American vlaues are excellent. They praise people who try hard and win. We hope they will be successful so we can plot their downfall.

Americans can all sing the national anthem. Most brits dont even know there are two verses to God Save the Queen!

Americans are all for themselves (as a nation rather than individually), they dont care what they do as long as they are making things better for themselves. In Britain, we pander to minorities and we make people redundant here and move their jobs to India!

Is there any wonder that I want to get out of this hell hole!

MattUK

Time for a change !! Often it is the nagging irritants which make us improve our lot. You have no control over what the "Americans" do, or any other country, including your very own nation.

You have control over how you live within the restrictions or how to turn them into opportunity. You are wholly in charge of your life even if it may appear you are not.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Bob Woodward's book is nothing more than Liberal propaganda..

Johnny Johnny Johnny, Bob Woodward is a very respected journalist in the US. His integrity isn't on anyone's radar, not even the Republicans can deny this.

I personally haven't read his latest book. But I am almost sure (I say almost because I always leave a small doubt), what he says is true blue. The question here is, how close to the "inner circle" of the President were his informants?

You have to analyze after reading what he wrote. Don't just read, add a little critical thought.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
Johnny Johnny Johnny, Bob Woodward is a very respected journalist in the US. His integrity isn't on anyone's radar, not even the Republicans can deny this.

I personally haven't read his latest book. But I am almost sure (I say almost because I always leave a small doubt), what he says is true blue. The question here is, how close to the "inner circle" of the President were his informants?

You have to analyze after reading what he wrote. Don't just read, add a little critical thought.
I know all about Bob Woodward. I still don't believe what he said because he's nothing more than a Liberal Hit Man who comes out with a book like this close to the elections, the timing is such a coincidence.. :rolleyes:

I also don't give un-named sources much credit no matter what side of the fence their from..
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
I asked Johnny to show some evidence that Bob Woodwords book is liberal propaganda. All he did is post a picture of a helicopter.
So Johnny, What evidence do you have that Bob Woodward’s book is liberal propaganda?
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
I asked Johnny to show some evidence that Bob Woodwords book is liberal propaganda. All he did is post a picture of a helicopter.
So Johnny, What evidence do you have that Bob Woodward’s book is liberal propaganda?
First, I was replying to Curiosity not you with the Black Helicopters picture. As for my views on Bob Woodward I already stated to ITN why I think Bob Woodward's Book is Liberal propaganda. But hey if he is so great why doesn't he look into what the Classified Documents Sandy Berger was caught stealing by shoving down his pants? Or what really happen to Vince Foster and why the same day his body was found Hillary Clinton was removing files from his office? :rolleyes:
 

sanch

Electoral Member
Apr 8, 2005
647
0
16
Woodward did write a book about Bill Clinton called the Agenda. Here's a link to a review.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n14_v46/ai_15674716

By the time I got to the end of The Agenda, I felt that I had spent a lot of time with a lot of people who are seriously conflicted and confused. Things are so chaotic in the Clinton White House that it is rather remarkable they get anything done at all. (Indeed, a better title for the book would have been Mr. Stephanopoulos's term, The Wave.) This quality of chaos seems to create a mood where everybody who works in the Clinton White House can't wait to spill his guts to Bob Woodward.
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
Conspiracy theory aside, Vince Forster committed suicide in 1993 and would have no place in this book. And are you talking about Watergate when it comes to un-named sources?
Some sources in State of Denial: Bush at War, Part III are Andrew Card who resigned because of concerns about how the public would perceive their handling of Iraq, and Donald Rumsfeld.