Tragedy at the Yellow Quill Reserve

[CDNBear]

$36,000 for a family of four. Thatis a lot of money for one group!!!???

Have you ever lived on that ammount of income in some of the most expensive places on earth?

I think not, this only strengthens my assertion that you are without a doubt a complete racist juan.

The facts stare you right in the face and you negate them, dismiss them with contempt and vitriol. That is the cornerstone of the word racist.

 

[dancing-loon]

There are about 1.2 million Natives in Canada, which is about 4.3% of the total population.

I just had a phone conversation with someone who understands a bit more about the Natives than I do. She says the problem is the Cultural Wrong that happened and money can't fix it! The life they lived for tens of thousands of years can not be changed in fifty or hundred or two hundred years... it just doesn't work! And the damage done by the Catholic Church will take a long time to heal.
She also pointed out that there are also wealthy Native groups, for instance in Alberta where they get royalties from the oil.
When I asked about them getting billions, she said, "absolutely!"
Then there is of course also big time corruption by various band leaders, who don't spend the federally provided money on their communities.

Sorry, Walter, for doubting you... you were correct!

My question now is, does the Canadian Government do the right thing by handing them x-amount of money, or should and could they do something different, perhaps more satisfying, more truly helpful?
What could that be?
Do the Natives themselves have suggestions?

 

[Zzarchov]

The life they lived for thousands of years cannot be changed in fifty, a hundred or two hundred years?

1.) They didn't live the same life of thousands of years. They were human beings and had their own civilization.

They changed cultures, built cities, had trade routes, waged wars, changed governments and lifestyles.

They did not live any one culture for thousands of years, or even hundreds of years really, anymore than anyone else in this world.


2.) Every other culture in this world has adapted to change in technology and the outside world, even ones which also had been far more isolated for longer.

First nations were not isolated, nor where they some monolithic singular people. Trade and explorers would travel the continent. Reaching as far south as Meso America (with its own cities and trade and currency) who in turn reached as far south as the Andean civilizations (as evidenced by the spread of peanut cultivation and trade). TO the North First Nations expanded into Norse lands (contrary to popular myth that it was the other way around), eventually colonizing Norse areas of Greenland.

The natives are more than capable of changing if they want to.

 

[CDNBear]

There are about 1.2 million Natives in Canada, which is about 4.3% of the total population.

I just had a phone conversation with someone who understands a bit more about the Natives than I do. She says the problem is the Cultural Wrong that happened and money can't fix it! The life they lived for tens of thousands of years can not be changed in fifty or hundred or two hundred years... it just doesn't work! And the damage done by the Catholic Church will take a long time to heal.

I have to call BS on that one.

WE as a people have done more damage to ourselves then you could possibly imagine.

She also pointed out that there are also wealthy Native groups, for instance in Alberta where they get royalties from the oil.
When I asked about them getting billions, she said, "absolutely!"
Then there is of course also big time corruption by various band leaders, who don't spend the federally provided money on their communities.

Except the fact that the Gov't was stealing much of the trust funds set up by Native communities that had the wealth of resources on their lands.

Sorry, Walter, for doubting you... you were correct!

No he wasn't.

The only people getting the majority of the funding are corrupt Native leaders(In a small sense), the Bureaucracy that divies up the funds, be they Federal, Province or municipal and in some cases, actually doubling or tripling services.

My question now is, does the Canadian Government do the right thing by handing them x-amount of money, or should and could they do something different, perhaps more satisfying, more truly helpful?

Yes they could, but that won't happen, they have shown what they want by using the court system to push their choice of corrupt status quo 'injun' on the Native populous. They want the status quo, they want us to remain dumb and squabing. That's how they will be able to control us.

What could that be?

A complete overhaul of the system, cut the double and triple service agencies, force all books to be opened to the NAtive peoples, the Gov't and anyone else that cares. Furthermore, being a representative body, their hiring practices must be brought inline with that of the Gov't. All tenders must be subject to opwn review and a measure of seperation must be maintained to eliminate nepotism and theft.

Do the Natives themselves have suggestions?

I just told you.

 

[dancing-loon]

Federal Spending on Aboriginal People The Government spends more than $9 billion1 each year to fund programs directed towards Aboriginal people.

• Indian and Northern Affairs Canada provides about $6.5 billion, of which about 80 per cent is for basic, province-type services for First Nations on reserve (e.g. education, social services, income assistance), where the Government has primary responsibility.

• Thirty-three other federal departments and agencies, the largest of which is Health Canada, with planned spending of about $2.1 billion, also provide a wide variety of programs for First Nations, Inuit and Métis.

• Budget 2006 committed $150 million in 2006–07 and $300 million a year thereafter for a new approach to support priorities in education; women, children and families; and water and housing. In addition, the Government provided $300 million for off-reserve Aboriginal housing and $300 million for affordable housing in the territories, and announced $500 million to assist communities affected by the Mackenzie Gas Project.

1 Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, 2006–07 Estimates, Report on Plans and Priorities.
I know the natives don't receive this money but when we consider that there are about a million natives and the money spent works out to about $9,000.00 for every man woman and child or $36,000.00 for a family of four. That is a lot of money for one group.

Thanks, Juan, for the info. I know several families in my immediate neighborhood who live on that and less. I don't understand why bear is shooting is mouth off by calling you a racist... Anyway, join the club,Juan, I was called the same!:lol:

 

[CDNBear]

The natives are more than capable of changing if they want to.

Say that again and again and again...it is absolute fact. They haven't been held back in generations. In fact, thanx to misguided policies and affirmative action type BS, they've had the upper hand. Which is to me a waste of time, reverse racism and a complete slap in the face of every decent hard working person in the nation. Period!!!

 

[CDNBear]

Thanks, Juan, for the info. I know several families in my immediate neighborhood who live on that and less. I don't understand why bear is shooting is mouth off by calling you a racist... Anyway, join the club,Juan, I was called the same!:lol:

Ummm, do you even know the difference in cost from where you live to where a large portion of the Native population live?

Do you know what a head of lettuce costs in Espanola Ontario?

A litre of gas?

Give you head a shake.

Not to mention, that $36,000, is not an actual cheque that people get and cash. I for one would love to know where I can sign up for it. I could pay down my mortgage in no time.

Hence why juan's posts are nothing more then racist hyperbole.

 

[Lester]

I went through the saddlelake reserve in Alberta a few m onths back, it was like going into a third world country, as soon as you crossed into reserve lands the roads turned to s**t, derelict houses with broken windows - no siding or shingles on some- too many crooks are taking the majority of the pie and the ordinary folks get the crumbs. cut out the middlemen(Bureaucracy) and let these people build their communities give them something to have pride in- it may sound simplistic, but a lot of times solutions are simplistic.

 

[CDNBear]

I went through the saddlelake reserve in Alberta a few m onths back, it was like going into a third world country, as soon as you crossed into reserve lands the roads turned to s**t, derelict houses with broken windows - no siding or shingles on some- too many crooks are taking the majority of the pie and the ordinary folks get the crumbs. cut out the middlemen(Bureaucracy) and let these people build their communities give them something to have pride in- it may sound simplistic, but a lot of times solutions are simplistic.

I would agree, but when I was a kid living on the res, we lived in poverty type conditions, because the Feds treated us like second class citizens, now it's our leaders.

Their lust for imperial dwellings and Hummers, has trumped the basic needs of the people.

In need of an over haul, would be an understatement. It's in need of a clensing of monumental proportions.

 

[justfred]

With all of the help on the reserves today I question, “What are we being told.” The first nations people are a proud people that unfortunately are either being stubborn about adopting to what the white man feels they should do, or are smarter that we think.
Why should they learn to get up and go to work, be a benefit in society? Why would they not drink all the time, do drugs, lay around and just do nothing, if they have no incentive to do so? The government programs, that were set up many years ago, encouraged them to be lazy, (not that we know they were not lazy then), but when a paycheck comes to you every month and all you have to do is sit around and drink, do drugs, make babies, why not ride the horse until it is dead.
Do Indians pay any taxes on the reserve, to assist with the costs on the reserve, road maintenance, house upkeep, cost of the administration. NO, they pay nothing. They have never paid anything and have always been able to get the government to pay for everything. Why? Because the government will not back them in a corner and say you are on your own.
Also, when the natives want “self government” the Department of Indian Affairs try to tell them that the elected people are responsible for their actions. Has anyone heard of the bosses on the reserves, taking and squandering of the money, then cry because the there is none. When the government then turns a blind eye on the misappropriation of the funds, the Indian then knows he or she can do it again, without any consequences. With this type of program going, why would anyone want to change it.
I read in the Edmonton Sun today, on opinion that makes some sense.

Taken from the Edmonton Sun
LET RESERVES COLLAPSE
When it comes to native reserves, it is unfortunate that there are many entrenched factions with a self-interest in keeping natives in a hellish existence - from band chiefs lining their pockets to government civil servants wanting to ensure their own employment. Since native leaders and the government have proven themselves useless in helping natives, there is probably only one thing that individual natives can do to fix the problem. That is to take personal responsibility for their individual situations. When enough natives have abandoned the reserve system and joined society, the reserve system will collapse and we'll be rid of it.
JOHN PATERSON

 

[Zzarchov]

Side note:

Lets assume that 36,000 was Native Income for a family of four.

According to the Canadian government, The average family of four earns over 74,000.

More than Double what a native family would earn.

Now you may say "But thats just an average income, alot of Canadian families earn alot less than 74,000", And you'd be right, about half would make less than that (using simple math, the actual numbers can vary).

But that same logic would apply to natives making 36,000 for a family of 4.

Of course the 36,000 is for government spending on services not a cashed out cheque. That would make native spending using quick benefit math, about the same per person as anyone else. Though the numbers may have shifted since I last checked (years ago)

 

[dancing-loon]

Hi Fred;
I like your little essay on the problems of Natives living on the reserves.
My logical thinking is pretty much the same: Why do they just languish around, destroying themselves? Do they not see it as such? Do they still bear resentment? Do they hate us?
My expert source says, NO, they are not resent- and hateful at all! But they are a different kind of people, who functioned well in their original environment, but not in this new one that's alien to them.. It is simply not in their genes to be like the White Man.

I found an excellent web site with opinions from Native youths. Please, read it, it'll touch your heart.

http://www.ayn.ca/forum/threadView.aspx?id=78

 

[Walter]

IThe only people getting the majority of the funding are corrupt Native leaders(In a small sense), the Bureaucracy that divies up the funds, be they Federal, Province or municipal and in some cases, actually doubling or tripling services.

That's why I want the books open.

 

[Nuggler]

Very...only a loon would suggest that!

:thumbup:

 

[jenn]

Side note:

Lets assume that 36,000 was Native Income for a family of four.

According to the Canadian government, The average family of four earns over 74,000.

More than Double what a native family would earn.

Now you may say "But thats just an average income, alot of Canadian families earn alot less than 74,000", And you'd be right, about half would make less than that (using simple math, the actual numbers can vary).

But that same logic would apply to natives making 36,000 for a family of 4.

Of course the 36,000 is for government spending on services not a cashed out cheque. That would make native spending using quick benefit math, about the same per person as anyone else. Though the numbers may have shifted since I last checked (years ago)

A family of 4 sitting around on their asses on goverment handouts would not EARN 74,000 a year.... try less than 24,000!

Let's compare apples to apples here....

ANYONE that wants to better their life has to get off their asses and work... being white or native.....

 

[Zzarchov]

A family of 4 sitting around on their asses on goverment handouts would not EARN 74,000 a year.... try less than 24,000!

Let's compare apples to apples here....

ANYONE that wants to better their life has to get off their asses and work... being white or native.....

Exactly, which I explained in the post. The 36,000 isn't income the natives get, its spending on services.

That is equivalent to what everyone else gets (Even for sitting on their asses you get 9,000 a person, or there abouts. You don't think health care, education, police and fire services, transportation were free did you?)

 

[Zzarchov]

But they are a different kind of people, who functioned well in their original environment, but not in this new one that's alien to them.. It is simply not in their genes to be like the White Man.

Now loon, I know you mean well, and you aren't trying to be mean.

But that right there is what I mean when I say you are being very racist.

There is no such thing as "white man" or "native man" as different species with different genes. Its patronizing and declaring natives to be a different species.

If you can't see how that statement is racist, pick any racial group and use those exact words to see how bigoted it sounds.

Ie.) When talking about higher dropout rate of black youths in Toronto
When talking about the poverty rates among South Asian Canadians
When talking about the higher rates of alcoholism among Irish Canadians

Can you not step back from this and see how racist comments like yours are? I know you don't mean ill, but absent minded patronization of a people is racist and pretty insidious, I really hope you can quash it.

 

[jenn]

But they are a different kind of people, who functioned well in their original environment, but not in this new one that's alien to them.. It is simply not in their genes to be like the White Man.

so tell me...what is so special about white man?

 

[missile]

Seeing that only a small percentage of natives actually live on the res: ergo, the rest must have integrated into our society, have a good work ethic, and earn a decent living. Most of the statements concerning natives are damned rascist and from ignorant sources.

 

[CDNBear]

With all of the help on the reserves today I question, “What are we being told.” The first nations people are a proud people that unfortunately are either being stubborn about adopting to what the white man feels they should do, or are smarter that we think....

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, and assume you are not referring to all Natives.

(not that we know they were not lazy then)

But that statement begs to be hammered.

The land as it was at the time of the European invasion, was inhospitable and the lazy or weak died quickly.

That comment alone should make me think your just a narrow mined bigot, but I'm more forgiving then most. So I'll go on.

What originally created the sloth was the removal of an entire way of life, opposite to what you think may have been.

The removal of hunting, fishing and the ablity to travel in search of food, along with the assurabce that the Crown would replace such things with their support, created what we have today. So pinning the entire mess on Natives, is like blaming a Lion for liking meat.

Hi Fred;
I like your little essay on the problems of Natives living on the reserves.
My logical thinking is pretty much the same: Why do they just languish around, destroying themselves? Do they not see it as such? Do they still bear resentment? Do they hate us?
My expert source says, NO, they are not resent- and hateful at all! But they are a different kind of people, who functioned well in their original environment, but not in this new one that's alien to them.. It is simply not in their genes to be like the White Man.

I found an excellent web site with opinions from Native youths. Please, read it, it'll touch your heart.

http://www.ayn.ca/forum/threadView.aspx?id=78

Please take what the Z man says to you seriously. It's the truth.

That's why I want the books open.

Walter, this is an area I am well aware of, it is without a doubt the single most reason I am persona non grata on many reservations.

I continuosly chastise those in power that do not live up to their position.

I've had death threats, been physically assaulted and had my family threatend.

Yes I gave up the bulk of my campaign, but I still get my kick at the corrupt cat whenever I get the chance and it's not like the folks at the top of the food chain are removing the chances.

Exactly, which I explained in the post. The 36,000 isn't income the natives get, its spending on services.

That is equivalent to what everyone else gets (Even for sitting on their asses you get 9,000 a person, or there abouts. You don't think health care, education, police and fire services, transportation were free did you?)

Z, some of these people think because they check the box that says "Catholic School" on the Property Taxes, they are the sole supporters of the CSS. It isn't even a remote stretch to believe these people believe those services simply materialise from the air.

Seeing that only a small percentage of natives actually live on the res: ergo, the rest must have integrated into our society, have a good work ethic, and earn a decent living. Most of the statements concerning natives are damned rascist and from ignorant sources.

Good point missile.