Tilly La Campagne - A forgotten Canadian Battle

[alypipes]

My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.

The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys![/quote]

The fact that your brother was 17 in 1943 and he joined the Waffen SS makes him a likely candidate for the 12 SS Hitler Jugend. This elite German division was key in holding the allies back in Normandy. They like all other Waffen SS were labelled fanatics and worse. After much research and thought, I think the labels are undeserved for the most part. These young men were chosen for there personal qualities and received some of the best training and equipment of any of the German divisions.
"...to create a new division consisting exclusively of volunteers from the Hitler Youth born in the year 1926. The Division was to be a symbol of the willingness of the German youth to sacrifice itself and of it's will to achieve total victory." Hubert Meyer, History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend"
Do you have any photos of your Bruder at this time?

 

[dancing-loon]

My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.

The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!

The fact that your brother was 17 in 1943 and he joined the Waffen SS makes him a likely candidate for the 12 SS Hitler Jugend. This elite German division was key in holding the allies back in Normandy. They like all other Waffen SS were labelled fanatics and worse. After much research and thought, I think the labels are undeserved for the most part. These young men were chosen for there personal qualities and received some of the best training and equipment of any of the German divisions.

"...to create a new division consisting exclusively of volunteers from the Hitler Youth born in the year 1926. The Division was to be a symbol of the willingness of the German youth to sacrifice itself and of it's will to achieve total victory." Hubert Meyer, History of the 12. SS-Panzerdivision "Hitlerjugend"
Do you have any photos of your Bruder at this time?

No, not a single one! He left in September 1943 and came back in the fall of 1948. Never once came home "auf Urlaub".
Unfortunately, I don't recall what his division was called, but it was a Panzerdivision, and he was a Funker. At the end of the war he was in Hungary, and they had no Sprit!! They used horses to pull their equipment. Three times they were chased by the Russians around the Plattensee, when finally a US tanker-truck arrived and brought them Sprit, and helped them to escape to the West. What had happened was that their commander had a cousin on the American side, whom he had asked for help.

Just this winter I read two books from Leon Degrelle. You heard about him? He fought on the East front, just like my oldest brother, also in the SS.

 

[alypipes]

Hi DL
It sounds more and more like your youngest brother was indeed a 12SS man.
After the British and Canadian forces had liberated Caen, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division was one of the 24 German combat divisions, which became encircled in the Falaise pocket. At this time, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division was ordered to hold the German lines on the northern edge of the pocket so that the trapped divisions could escape as best they could. The HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division escaped being encircled as did about 20.000 other Germans - but over 50.000 other German forces were trapped in the Falaise pocket and surrendered to the Allies.

Although the Normandy campaign survivors of the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division fought with just as much determination and dedication as they did a month earlier, in the long run, they were fighting a losing battle. By September of 1944, only 1.500-3.500+ HJ troopers survived in the division. They had lost over 9.000 of their comrades in Normandy and in the Falaise Gap. After the Falaise campaign, the HJ SS Panzer Grenadier Division had also lost nearly all of its armor, much of their equipment and heavy weapons.

In December of 1944, the now re-organized HJ SS Panzer Division participated in the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes forest. After that, the HJ SS Panzer Division was sent to Hungary where it was supposed to assist in recapturing Budapest.
On May 8th, approximately 10.000 survivors of the 12th SS Panzer Division surrendered to the American 65th Infantry Division, 7th Army, near Enns in Austria. One surviving tank belonging to the division also surrendered to the Americans that day.

 

[alypipes]

My youngest brother joined the Waffen SS in September 1943, as a 17-year old. I remember he was for a time fighting in France... could have been this particular battle! Who knows? Unfortunately, he's been gone for a while.

The Black Watch seems to have been a counter match of the Waffen SS... highly disciplined, high morality, and brave boys!


Your brother also could have taken part in this battle, the 12SS Panzergrenadier Division was holding the line in Tilly at the time of this battle.

All Canadian troops were referred to by the Germans as TommySS, Tommy of course were the Brits. The Canadians had a strong disliking for SS and 12SS was a marked division by our troops, the tendancy was to not take prisoners.

 

[dancing-loon]

I guess my brother was lucky. He and most of the German soldiers were packed on fields or the so called Rheinwiesen, and left to starve. He was later given the choice of either going to England or France to do labour for war reparations. He chose France and had a relative easy time helping aging farmers work their land with a stubborn ox!!! In the fall of 1948 he was finally let go and came home... he had been gone for 5 years.

You mention the Ardennen... I seem to remember having heard that name in relation to my brother. My sister-in-law is still alive.. I should phone her and see if she knows more details. I was only 10 when the war was over!

We had three enemies... den Iwan, den Tommy und die Amis!!!:lol:

 

[Lilly]

Re: Tilly- La- Campagne,Verrieres Ridge

My great uncle,Ernest Glenmore Hill, died in the battle of tilly La Campagne,fighting with the North Nova Scotia Highlanders. An amazing book that describes the battle and gives you a great understanding as to what the North Nova Scotian Highlander(As well as others) went through is,"No Retreating Footsteps". It is the war diary of the North Novies.
You can get a copy of it through the museu in Amherst, Nova Scotia plus it helps support the museum and keeps it going. It is also an amazing museum, run by Ray Coulson who has dedicated his time in the last 20 years there.
Cheers ya'll! Thank a vet!

Hi Cammy
I stumbled on your message today and found that your uncle died in the battle of Tilly La Campagne in France, my son & daughter lost their great uncle Ferdinand Joseph Rogers in the same battle on the same day as you lost your great uncle. Ferdinand was from PEI at the time of his death, but his one brother (my kids grandfather), left PEI and lived in Kingston On until he passed away 4 years ago.
Not sure why I felt I needed to share my story with you, but perhaps these two brave men were friends who died together on that fateful day in a wheat field in France.
Please feel free to respond.
Tracey
Strathmore Alberta

 

[glen1753]

Now this is an amazing battle that has been mostly forgotten in Canadian history.

During the assault on Verrierres Ridge in July 1944, 325 men left the start line and only 15 made it back to friendly lines, the others being killed or wounded by well entrenched Waffen SS soldiers and tanks.The Waffen ss were shocked at these Canadian efforts as the soliders had no tanks,artillary cover.They marched with there guns to their breasts and up-right like in a parade.Soldiers that have had 4-5 years of experience in Russia were amazed as no man took cover,for the Black Watch were never taught the word retreat. Note they ordered there men not to shoot (those who are mostly wounded) as the fled back.

The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My Father who passed away in November of 2006, was with the North Nova Scotia Highlanders in Normandy and was part of this horrendous battle for Tilly-La-Campagne. He had been in France since 28/06/1944 and first saw action 10/07/1944. I learnt of this as the executor of my fathers will I was privy to his paper. At sometime in the past he had acquired his military medical records. It is from these I got these dates. Also in his papers was a letter dated 11/09/1992 from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and it the contains information of grave of a private who died 25 July 1944. It appears my father planned to visit his grave. I know he went to England around that time but I am not certain he made it to France.
The reason I write is that my recent understanding is that Tilly-La-Campagne is a separate battle from Verrierres Ridge although part of the larger Operation Spring.

WWII: Operation Spring - Canada at War