This summer may see first ice-free North Pole

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Chillliwack, BC
I've become convinced there is so much money, reputations, careers, prizes, political ambition involved with the realization of Global Warming now.. that any evidence not supporting it will be suppressed. Everything else will massaged to prove the point.

It will collapse at some point of course, as all absurd orthodoxies driven by hysteria and fear do, but since the whole environmenal movement has taken on the character of a social religion.. it will likely only happen by way of revolution.. and the collapse of the the social paradigm that spawned it.

That paradigm is one of deep pessimism and confusion of the human presence on earth. A loss of all sense of purpose, and attribution of a sinister character to humanity. It is something that appears in society's racked with doubt and a loss of faith, and might signal the end of the epoch.. perhaps the end of Western Civilization.

Oswald Spengler in his thesis, The Decline of West, would have seen the abasement of science into a quasi religious an political fiasco, as GW has become, as indicative of just that.

It won't change the fact that GW, as a function of human activity, is utter nonsense, without scientific merit.
 
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Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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My point is: Ice-free Pole or Ice-free Great Lakes, what in the hell is the difference????

Just as no human activity was responsible for the Ice Age or reversal therof, no human activity can be blamed for an Ice-free North Pole.

MOTHER NATURE, you know?!?!

When mother nature makes the ice sheets grow and shrink, it is predominantly in response to orbital changes. These produce that familiar 800-1200 year gap between peak temperatures and peak greenhouse gas concentrations.

That is not happening now. The withdrawal is happening ahead of schedule. The feedback that helped bump temperatures up over previous deglaciations, is infact the initial perturbation now.

The evidence for this is overwhelming.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
My point is: Ice-free Pole or Ice-free Great Lakes, what in the hell is the difference????

Just as no human activity was responsible for the Ice Age or reversal therof, no human activity can be blamed for an Ice-free North Pole.

MOTHER NATURE, you know?!?!

Basically, I think you are right but man isn't helping anything either and needs to take a hard look at some of his habits. I think 6 billion people can adversely affect the planet.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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the-brights.net
I've become convinced there is so much money, reputations, careers, prizes, political ambition involved with the realization of Global Warming now.. that any evidence not supporting it will be suppressed. Everything else will massaged to prove the point.
And any evidence indicating global warming will be ignored and scoffed at as being propaganda or concocted?
It's pretty hard to stay objective, I agree.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Of course. If we didn't include changes in solar forcing, then we wouldn't have seasons. There is a solar lull right now and yet the temperature and it's secondary responses remains above the long term average. Funny huh?

Yes it seems counterintuative. Ccould it be that the temperature regulation of the planet is simply underpowered at this time?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Underpowered? In what way?

I don't think it's counter intuitive. The solar forcing varies between highs and lows by less than the forcing estimated for landuse changes and increasing greenhouse concentrations.
 

Extrafire

Council Member
Mar 31, 2005
1,300
14
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Prince George, BC
When mother nature makes the ice sheets grow and shrink, it is predominantly in response to orbital changes. These produce that familiar 800-1200 year gap between peak temperatures and peak greenhouse gas concentrations.

That is not happening now. The withdrawal is happening ahead of schedule. The feedback that helped bump temperatures up over previous deglaciations, is infact the initial perturbation now.

The evidence for this is overwhelming.
When mother nature makes ice sheets grow and shrink it is primarily a matter of solar fluctuations. The evidence for this is undeniable.

While the temperatures in the arctic have been warming, it is the wind and wave action that is responsible for most of the recent decline in summer sea ice. The evidence for this is also overwhelming.
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
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A lot more ice this year than last year.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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USA
Greater area does not mean more ice. It simply means it's spread out more. One would have to look at the other factors concerning the volume of ice to be able to say there's more ice than just area. Try going by the total mass or volume of the ice if you want to be accurate about "more" or "less" ice.

Roger that!

But what does this mean to you?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,543
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Regina, Saskatchewan
So....with ice melting and now being spread over a larger surface area,
but not as thick as previous years, etc....:-?

How much have the oceans risen in the last year? Last 10yrs? 100yrs? 8O

Just curious.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
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SouthWestern Ontario
Interesting that PM Harper - the anti-carbon tax - we do not have a problem leader of our country would be spending so much of our tax dollars and then some on the Arctic passageway - Meanwhile he sits on his hands about a 3rd crossing at the busiest border crossing in our nation (Windsor Ontario) - The Arctic will not be an ice-free year round navigation route for many years - The most important immediate water route is the St Lawrence Seaway and yet again we are not focused on how important this will be when oil gets back up over $150 bbl.
Harper should also be throwing some dollars at what we can do as a country to build roads over the sometime semi-frozen tundra in the North. What type of housing construction needs to be engineered to build on semi-permafrost.
These are more immediate - GDP increasing needs.