This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENOUGH!

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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"Simply put, YES, Canadians would put up with having bits of the nation sheared off and handed to special interest groups. We do so with the Indians repeatedly."

Well that about says it all doesn't it!

Natives were the original people here Colpy and it was europeans who decided where they should live, wrote treaties with them then reneged on those treaties...

Just like Israel has done since it was created. No nation on earth has failed to ratify UN resolutions more than has Israel. No nation on earth has had the focus of the world brought to bear on it for as long as the struggle in the Middle East has been going on. No other nation on earth has the backing of the United States to the degree that Israel enjoys.

The original conflict stems not from the barbarism of the Palestinian people, it is the actions of the UN and the "might-is-right" of Britain and the United States that we've seen exercised in many other nations around this planet. How long do you think the worlds attention would be focused on the Middle East if all funding and military support for Israel were ended tomorrow?

I presume you'd be on the first flight to Israel to lend your might to her defense right?
 

Graeme

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2006
349
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If military support was ended for Israel then Israel - the ONE fully stable democratic state in the middle-east -would cease to exist within a year.

Israel is a the most friendly nation to the western world, losing Israel would be losing a lot of control in the middle-east, sure we have good relations with Turkey but Turkey can't even fully control there own nation.


No nation on earth has failed to ratify UN resolutions more than has Israel.

Which one of your a-holes did you pull this sh!t out of. I say which one because with the about of B.S. you spew you must have a few of them.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Natives were the original people here Colpy and it was europeans who decided where they should live, wrote treaties with them then reneged on those treaties...

And 2000 years ago Jews dominated Palestine.........

How long do you think the worlds attention would be focused on the Middle East if all funding and military support for Israel were ended tomorrow?

Which has long been one of my points about the Middle East......if the Palestinians and their groups (Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah) miraculously had their weapons disappear tomorrow, there would be peace in the ME.

If all the Israelis had THEIR weapons disappear tomorrow, there would be a slaughter of Jews that would make the Holocaust look like a tea party.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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I surrender, you folk just keep on hating reason and encourage war as you have for years. Just don't be too suprised when terrorism raises its ugly head. Don't be too suprised when the only opion left open after reason is abandoned is violence.

That's what Caledonia, Iperwash Oka and countless occasions of violent revolution are all about. When reason can be ignored and a condition of suffering supported and applauded by those observers a 'safe' distance away, you end up with people feeling the need to impress upon you the one-sidedness and injustice that reason has failed to address.

Nice to know so many Canadians are haters and terrorists in their hearts.
 

gangstalking

Electoral Member
Sep 10, 2006
138
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Re: RE: This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENO

MikeyDB said:
That's what Caledonia, Iperwash Oka and countless occasions of violent revolution are all about. When reason can be ignored and a condition of suffering supported and applauded by those observers a 'safe' distance away, you end up with people feeling the need to impress upon you the one-sidedness and injustice that reason has failed to address.

This is an extreamly well made point, when reason is ignored, suffering supporteed, and applauded specifically by those who are suppose to be the just of the world, when injustice is supported by these people, then you get violent revolution, and violent actions like you are seeing around the world now. Like you will continue to see in the future.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Only when Walkerton...white-folk end up on the dirty end of the stick by a government that abandons its responsibilities to its people...is there any outcry.

Natives can live with hauling contaminated water and sub-standard water purification...and they can die and the world will ignore them. But OH MY GOODNESS if a white community suffers it's a whole different story.

These wonderful folk embracing the bloodshed in the Middle East are the heart and soul of Canada. The heart and soul of a nation of people content to make victims of others just so long as good white folk ...good Christian folk aren't on the line.

"Kill all them A-Rabs we don't need nuthin but their oil anyway...." The Canadian perspective on justice.
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
787
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Re: RE: This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENO

Palestinians are now starving. Their borders are locked under the control of the Israelis and the Palestinians are now beginning to starve. These are human beings. Their lives are considered so cheaply. The land the Palestinians occupy is just a giant Israeli prison.

How can those people appreciate the concept of freedom that we so like to throw around in such a cavalier way. These people can’t know freedom. They can barely appreciate a quality of life. And nobody is really hearing about any of this starvation on our side because it mirrors the level of thought the west really has for them. We seem to have such high expectations of conduct for some very desperate people.



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece

13 September 2006 10:31

'Gaza is a jail. Nobody is allowed to leave. We are all starving now'
By Patrick Cockburn in Gaza
Published: 08 September 2006

Gaza is dying. The Israeli siege of the Palestinian enclave is so tight that its people are on the edge of starvation. Here on the shores of the Mediterranean a great tragedy is taking place that is being ignored because the world's attention has been diverted by wars in Lebanon and Iraq.

A whole society is being destroyed. There are 1.5 million Palestinians imprisoned in the most heavily populated area in the world. Israel has stopped all trade. It has even forbidden fishermen to go far from the shore so they wade into the surf to try vainly to catch fish with hand-thrown nets.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Re: RE: This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENO

elevennevele said:
Palestinians are now starving. Their borders are locked under the control of the Israelis and the Palestinians are now beginning to starve. These are human beings. Their lives are considered so cheaply. The land the Palestinians occupy is just a giant Israeli prison.

How can those people appreciate the concept of freedom that we so like to throw around in such a cavalier way. These people can’t know freedom. They can barely appreciate a quality of life. And nobody is really hearing about any of this starvation on our side because it mirrors the level of thought the west really has for them. We seem to have such high expectations of conduct for some very desperate people.



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece

13 September 2006 10:31

'Gaza is a jail. Nobody is allowed to leave. We are all starving now'
By Patrick Cockburn in Gaza
Published: 08 September 2006

Gaza is dying. The Israeli siege of the Palestinian enclave is so tight that its people are on the edge of starvation. Here on the shores of the Mediterranean a great tragedy is taking place that is being ignored because the world's attention has been diverted by wars in Lebanon and Iraq.

A whole society is being destroyed. There are 1.5 million Palestinians imprisoned in the most heavily populated area in the world. Israel has stopped all trade. It has even forbidden fishermen to go far from the shore so they wade into the surf to try vainly to catch fish with hand-thrown nets.

I am VERY tempted to say "Let Hamas feed them, that's who they elected as their representatives".

But that would be to ignore the plight of the innocent, children and moderates................

But the point remains.....Israel abandoned Gaza, only to have it turned into a staging area for attacks on them.

BTW, where is the great relief program paid for by the Palestinians "Arab Brothers"? I'm sure Israel would permit humanitarian relief from Egypt in......or at least they damen well should.

Oh Yeah......and where is the kidnapped Israeli? Perhaps the people of Gaza should be asking their great leaders in Hamas............
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Lebanon can start to look after its own. Maybe in the future then it can look after its borders. And meanwhile decide exactly who's in charge. I'm out of sympathy.
 

gangstalking

Electoral Member
Sep 10, 2006
138
0
16
Re: RE: This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENO

elevennevele said:
Palestinians are now starving. Their borders are locked under the control of the Israelis and the Palestinians are now beginning to starve. These are human beings. Their lives are considered so cheaply. The land the Palestinians occupy is just a giant Israeli prison.

How can those people appreciate the concept of freedom that we so like to throw around in such a cavalier way. These people can’t know freedom. They can barely appreciate a quality of life. And nobody is really hearing about any of this starvation on our side because it mirrors the level of thought the west really has for them. We seem to have such high expectations of conduct for some very desperate people.



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece

13 September 2006 10:31

'Gaza is a jail. Nobody is allowed to leave. We are all starving now'
By Patrick Cockburn in Gaza
Published: 08 September 2006

Gaza is dying. The Israeli siege of the Palestinian enclave is so tight that its people are on the edge of starvation. Here on the shores of the Mediterranean a great tragedy is taking place that is being ignored because the world's attention has been diverted by wars in Lebanon and Iraq.

A whole society is being destroyed. There are 1.5 million Palestinians imprisoned in the most heavily populated area in the world. Israel has stopped all trade. It has even forbidden fishermen to go far from the shore so they wade into the surf to try vainly to catch fish with hand-thrown nets.

This is horrible, why is there not more about this on the news? Never mind I know why, they are suppose to be the bad people so ofcourse the news won't show things to make them seem real and human.

I knew about the children starving, but not about the fishermen and things like that. It's pretty bad.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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It’s time to end any sympathy anyone has for the Lebanese and the Palestinians. It’s been years and have they learned the lessons available from their teachers the IRA?
NO!

Good Irishmen incinerated children lying in their beds at night but will the Lebanese and Palestinians learn from this model? No!

Was there the same hue and cry over the murders and bombings in Belfast and Dublin as there are over the bombs and destruction in Israel and Iraq?

Of course not…some people particularly children deserve to be burned alive…
What’s wrong with these people, that they can’t understand this?


Haven’t they learned from the Americans how to prosecute a war on the pretext of a lie? Where were these people when the U.S. claimed North Vietnam was torpedoing their ships in the Gulf of Tonkin? Aren’t these people paying any attention to how important it is to fabricate fears based on lies, like “Iraq has enormous stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction and therefore killing a few hundred thousand of them is perfectly legitimate…right!?

Oh yeah they’ll moan and complain because they’re treated as foreigners living on the same land they’ve lived on for thousands of years but will they accept the word and promises of God fearing Christians who decimated native populations in North America and fail to realize how wonderfully the west has treated blacks from Africa?

Why can’t these people understand that “freedom” comes with capitulation to supply the Yankee and the Canuck with cheap gasoline so obese North Americans can funnel billions to the Israeli war machine?

They should take a lesson from the Keseshewan tribe and the Davis Inlet tribe that sniffing copier fluid and gasoline makes up for having to live in an occupied nation depending on the kindness of people who hate them…

They should look to the kindness of the BATF and the FBI who have no qualms about burning women and children alive in Waco or executing innocents at Ruby Ridge…. Obviously American justice, the template for Israeli justice is just wonderful and provides a wonderful example of how great the American model of “democracy” works!

The great American George Bush tells us they hate our freedoms and our democracy…. Why?

Don’t these people pay attention to how quickly and efficiently the people of New Orleans received aid after they were hit with a flood that left them homeless? How could anyone find fault in a democracy that permits one percent of the population to enjoy control over ninety-plus percent of the wealth of America and Canada while homelessness and poverty are happily accepted by the mindless mob?

Surely they realize that yes although the Canadian people are robbed of five billion dollars our government tells the thieves that this is perfectly OK and oh by the way why don’t you just keep a billion so there’s no hard feelings…

Democracy like that enjoyed by Canadians and Americans couldn’t possibly be anything that anyone could be upset with now could it?

Yep let’s end all the hand rubbing and wailing and moaning and simply ignore these complainers….

We’ve all got it so good here in the western democracies …they’ll just never appreciate how much better we are than they….

Well what can you expect from a bunch of barbarians anyway…..
 

elevennevele

Electoral Member
Mar 13, 2006
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Re: RE: This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENO

This article is from June. I figured it's worth posting an excerpt.

Published on Sunday, June 4, 2006 by the Toronto Star (Canada)

Starving Palestinians is Inhumane, Stupid
Canada should be voice of reason in Mideast


by Haroon Siddiqui

Uri Avnery, veteran Israeli peace activist, is a small man with a large presence. He cuts a biblical figure with his white hair and beard, soft voice and a calm demeanour that can come only from some deep inner strength.

The 83-year-old journalist, essayist and editor is here for a conference of writers, especially for a session entitled "Writing in a World Without Peace," about the duty of intellectuals to bear witness to these troubled times.

A former member of the Knesset and co-founder of Gush Shalom peace group, Avnery says he has not known a day of peace since he migrated to Palestine from Germany in 1933.

(continued...)

What does Avnery think of the policy, which Canada was the first to announce, of starving the Palestinians for having elected Hamas?

"It is a terrible policy. It is inhumane and it is stupid.

"No people in the world would react to such a crude outside intervention against a government which they have just now elected in unquestionably democratic elections.

"Any people, including my own, would react to this by embracing their government. Anyone with any modicum of political experience, political wisdom and political intuition would know this is wrong. But it is popular. It is very popular in America among politicians and among all the lobby people.

"But I don't think it will succeed ...

"If there were elections tomorrow, I am quite sure the majority for Hamas will become bigger, not smaller."

What should Canada's role be?

"People have this belief, or maybe superstition, that Canadians are better than others, that Canadians are part of the Anglo-Saxon culture but are free from the obvious faults of the U.S. and of the United Kingdom — not so powerful, not so arrogant, maybe a little bit more moral.

"Whether it is true or not, it is widely believed and I myself believe in it, and I do very much hope that Canada could be, or should be, a voice of reason.

"It's not a question of being pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian but being pro-peace and pro-reason."

Haroon Siddiqui, the Star's editorial page editor emeritus, appears Thursday and Sunday.

© 2006 The Toronto Star



The belief that Canadians are a voice of reason is something I want us to maintain or develop in the world. If people wish to argue that we are not a voice of reason (and I can understand that argument as to our current government) I feel we should at least strive for it.

I’ve read people post that they feel Canada has been ineffectual throughout the world. They really don't understand what the idea of Canadianism has embodied and how really important an attribute it can be. If nobody believes me then what has been the purpose of having a Canadian Flag visible when travelling up until now? (I stress "up until now")

I think to be regarded in reference to humanitarian ideals is a very special quality. It's more special to me than being known for military might. A quality we should not take for granted.

There are so many who can qualify for military might and yet can still be countries that are regarded poorly in the world. As long as we can defend ourselves and that we use our military to help people then it’s enough.

There is a saying which goes, “If you can’t help someone, at least don’t harm them”.

Think about it. We are really not in a crisis regarding the defense of our nation. Neither do we appear to be helping the people of Afghanistan at this point. Neither are we creating less global terrorism by our actions, but rather inflaming people to unite against us. Neither are we identifying people in the Middle East by way of our core values anymore, human beings of individual worth but rather through a political filter of good guys vs. bad guys that lump people together and strip them of any individual identity.

Just the same as if I were to take this approach with the United States. I would then end up blindly concluding that there are no good Americans left for what that country has done now in the world.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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You really think from the contributions you've seen here that (now that's not all Canadians by any means and I understand that) there are many who'd take the time to trouble themselves learning about the plight of the Palestinians?

Just read these messages, these people are about as "deep" as piss on a rock and aren't prepared to accept anything other than the pap and garbage spoonfed to them from the Israeli and American press.

They don't want to realize the ramifications of an "embedded" media presence in Iraq during the invasion there and they sure don't have any reason to believe that there actually may be more than one perspective on what's happening to the Lebanese and Palestinian people.

They simply don't give a shit and if they're not just wannabe Americans they're using mush for brains that leaves them vulnerable to all the crap that Israeli propaganda machine can pump out.

Hell these people actually belived that Private what's her name was "rescued" and that there really isn't all that big a deal what's happening or happened at Abu Ghraib...

Don't know and could care less that laws taking away their freedoms and billions are being spent and wasted in gargantuan amounts to keep them "safe" from terrorism but that the answer isn't in preparing for terrorism and war but in address the root causes and stopping terrorism at its roots.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Canada as a Fair and Enlightened Society

Canada enjoys a reputation as a special place - a place where human rights and dignity are guaranteed, where the rules of liberal democracy are respected, where diversity among peoples is celebrated. But this reputation represents, at best, a half-truth.
A careful reading of history shows that Canada was founded on a series of bargains with Aboriginal peoples - bargains this country has never fully honoured. Treaties between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal governments were agreements to share the land. They were replaced by policies intended to
...remove Aboriginal people from their homelands.
...suppress Aboriginal nations and their governments.
...undermine Aboriginal cultures.
...stifle Aboriginal identity.

http://epe.lac-bac.gc.ca/100/200/301/inac-ainc/highlights_report_royal-e/lk_e.html

I’ve excerpted from the URL provided as an introduction to help in understanding how different and yet in some instances how similar Canadian government “Treaties” with the aboriginal peoples of Canada is to U.N. resolution 181.

“On 29 November 1947 the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine or United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181, a plan to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict in the British Mandate of Palestine, was approved by the United Nations General Assembly, at the UN World Headquarters in New York. The plan partitioned the territory of Western Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area. Encompassing Bethlehem, coming under international control. The failure of the British government and the United Nations to implement this plan and its rejection by first the Palestinian Arabs then Israel resulted in various wars, starting with the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.”

When I asked the question regarding how Canadians would feel if the United Nations waltzed in and declared some part of Canada a homeland for someone else, the response from Colpy was that we did that with the natives in Canada, or as he referred to them a “special interest group”.

How one can equate the parceling of land by the British government under the BNA and a written (although never completely honored) agreement to protect the interests of the aboriginal people of this country…thereby “granting” land to native inhabitants who lived here long before Europeans arrived….with carving up Palestine to appease the Israeli people takes a very special kind of rose colored glasses.

Similarities are of course that the Canadian government has a history of ignoring breaking and denying these treaties with native Canadians and Israel ignored the geographical limits imposed by the British expanding Israeli holdings well beyond what had been declared and completely disenfranchising the Palestinian people who remained in the area.

Colpy says “Well shure we’d have no problem if the UN came in here and took half of Canada, and gave it to Jamacia or Nigeria or anyone else cause after all we done gived them Indians some of our land (those special interest groups)…”

This is what passes for considered opinion and balanced assessment in the mind of at least one contributor and I’d hazard to say a great many more.


“On November 29, the UN General Assembly voted 33 to 13 with 10 abstentions in favor of the Partition Plan, while making some adjustments to the boundaries between the two states proposed by it. The division was to take effect on the date of British withdrawal.”

“The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed the plan, arguing that it violated the rights of the majority of the people in Palestine, which at the time was 67% non-Jewish (1,237,000) and 33% Jewish (608,000). Arab leaders also argued a large number of Arabs would be trapped in the Jewish State as a minority. While some Arab leaders opposed the right of the Jews for self-determination in the region, others criticised the amount and quality of land given to Israel.”

In essence, regardless of the fact recognized by both Jewish and Arab leaders that this partitioning could only lead to conflict, Britain pursued its course of action and the world has had to live with the results since the inception of the state of Israel.

That there have been decades of conflict as the result of this action by the UN and the behaviour of an Israel with the United States in its back pocket so to speak, should surprise no one.

It also isn’t much of a surprise if you’d care to look up which nations opposed resolution 181 and use that as an overlay on the current geopolitical maelstrom.

Canadians are blaming the victims for standing up for themselves and choosing to embrace the same red-neck right-wing “might-is-right” position as the neocons of the current American administration.

There is of course no reasoning with these folk; they are generally dyed-in-the-wool “believers” who have elected to ignore the injustices and illegalities that have on various occasions threatened to bring much wider violence to the world.

Their language begins with … “Oh yer one of them lefties who think….” And any opinion whether substantiated with fact or not, that challenges their view is robustly denigrated and dismissed.

One can’t really expect to have a discussion with people who are entrenched in protecting a “status quo” that is both ill informed and prejudiced from the onset.

I’m through attempting to speak to these folk and would simply like to thank them for pointing out why so many people of this planet suffer while those who could do something to change that situation choose not to.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Mikey DB, you can blather on all you like about the unfairness of the original partition, etc. etc. It doesn't matter. Israel is now a nation of over 6 million Jewish citizens, and it is here to stay. It is not going to return to the territory granted it in the late 1940s, nor should it, as it would cease to exist as a nation. Israel will never agree to the "right of return", as that would spell the end of Israel as a nation. It is probably never going to return to its pre-68 borders.......although it would gladly give up the West bank and Gaza Strip in exchange for peace...........speaking of which, Israel has conquered and surrendered land repeatedly in attempts to buy peace. It seems only to have succeeded with Egypt.

The Jews have Israel, and have created a flourishing liberal democracy on that small piece of land.

The Arabs have the reast of the Arab Peninsula, and have the greatest oil reserves in the world, and they have created theocratic monarchies about 1,000 years out of time (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the UAR), murderous secular dictatorships bent on the suppression of their own people (Iraq, Yemen and Syria), a couple of VERY fragile democracies unable to control their radical elements (Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority), and one decent nation (Jordan) that is still NOT a democracy, just a surprizingly tolerant and reasonable monarchy.

I'll stick with supporting Israel, thank you very much.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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If we look at North and South Korea, or say the Trianon division of Hungary and the Baltic states, the idea that, national boundaries established decades ago that divided once homogeneous demographic populations and were typically justified as necessary due to “hostilities”, it seems readily apparent if not blindingly obvious that the likelihood of there being a re-establishing of Israeli borders to the specifications of the 1948 resolution is in fact zero.

And that wasn’t the point I was trying to make through my argument.

My argument was intended to demonstrate two things.

Suggesting that setting aside reservations for native tribes in North America was a solution that “worked” or that western governments honored these agreements and treaties is provably false and has been a source of considerable conflict for a significant period. This is obvious from observation and doesn’t address the notion that these reserves and the Indian Act were product of, once again, the British empire, as mechanism to establish WASP control of an indigenous population that occupied this territory long before the British monarchy were old enough to suck their thumbs.

The British relinquished their occupancy and control over Palestine and if the observer had something larger than a single digit IQ they’d realize that there’s a tremendous difference between the Canadian “solution” and the Israeli “solution”.

The thrust of my contribution was intended to point out that since the passing of resolution 181 there was then and there still are justifiable hostility to the imposition of this, yet another British “solution” that was doomed to failure, from the onset, the very beginning!

Beyond the ideological differences of religious beliefs, the Arab nations have been manipulated by the British Empire and set up for failure as the result of international interference that completely ignored opposition to this “solution” from the beginning.

Look around. Iran, Iraq, South Africa, wherever the British Empire and later of course the American Empire meddled with national borders and populations, the people of those areas have paid a price in blood destruction and mayhem as product of cyclic warfare for generations.

Similarly intrusively establishing a homeland for Jews by forcing the hand of Arab states by rule imposed by people more interested in stealing oil and placating their conscience for having sat by while the Jewish people were nearly exterminated was destined for failure. To blame the Palestinians or for that matter the Jews for the terrible dynamics of the region nicely avoids acknowledging that it wasn’t the Arabs or the Jews who established this festering sore on the asshole of the world.

And just like the British history of failure to honor its agreements with native North Americans, Israel has failed to abide by the seminal constructs under international law that established this country in the first place.

It was once again, outsiders who have through the force of arms and in the interests of controlling access to petroleum reserves, unconcerned with the human dynamics of a region that has been in a nearly constant state of upheaval for all of human history screwed-over everyone.

Your compassion or empathy or whatever you think you have for Israel and its people, what you blithely call “support” is like the situation in the Middle East, conflicted through the absence of a reasonable appreciation for what the hell you’re talking about.

Your ignorance is truly offensive.

You’re contributions are long on what you think despite the fact that you’re understanding of dynamics beyond those which you think you understand is woefully inadequate to the task of managing a clear perspective of the issues and historical precedents involved.

Please feel free to move to Israel and lend them your support directly, the last thing Canada needs is a person exercising the virulent ignorance you repeatedly demonstrate on these forums.

Go support them Colpy they’d appreciate your level of stupidity over there.
 

Colpy

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Suggesting that setting aside reservations for native tribes in North America was a solution that “worked” or that western governments honored these agreements and treaties is provably false and has been a source of considerable conflict for a significant period.

First of all, I would be the last person to say the reservation system has worked. The entire idea of property held in common by any human population, be it native or otherwise, is just plain stupid. The establishment of different rules for people based on race is simply not on. And the conflicts created by this entire system will go on forever. Are you aware that native land claims encompass 110% of the land mass of British Columbia? How is that possible? Because there are some areas claimed by two or more bands.

Were it up to me, I would divide the land currently held by natives into equal parcels for each person, throw out the Indian Act, and proceed to treat all Canadians as equals.

Every occupied land mass on earth has the same history.......one population after another overwhelmed and assimilated by the movement of peoples......trying to compensate for that fact is just not realistic.

My point with the analogy was that the JEWS were the original holders of the land of Israel. According to your own attitude towards native peoples, they have a right to re-establish their presence...........the comparison was, I admit, made to draw your attention to the inconsistency in your thought process. It was not intended as a serious comparison.

Your post is contradictory in at least one matter......in one breath you blame all the troubles of the Middle East on the British colonization of the area......and in the next you speak of "human dynamics of a region that has been in a nearly constant state of upheaval for all of human history". Make up your mind.

And, BTW, as I pointed out and you pointedly ignored, the west has PAID a good price for the oil we use from the Arab Peninsula, we have made various nations exceptionally rich...........and THEY have chosen NOT to improve their own societies, but to operate in the ways I pointed out in the above post............

Israel, on the other hand, has created a society worth supporting............

I'm going to ask YOU the question no one will answer.......

Would you rather be an Muslim Arab living in Israel, or a Jew living in any Arab country surrounding Israel?

Take your time.

The answer should indicate which side is deserving of support.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Re: RE: This must end NOW: Canadian Support for Israel - ENO

Colpy said:
Natives were the original people here Colpy and it was europeans who decided where they should live, wrote treaties with them then reneged on those treaties...

And 2000 years ago Jews dominated Palestine.........

How long do you think the worlds attention would be focused on the Middle East if all funding and military support for Israel were ended tomorrow?

Which has long been one of my points about the Middle East......if the Palestinians and their groups (Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah) miraculously had their weapons disappear tomorrow, there would be peace in the ME.

If all the Israelis had THEIR weapons disappear tomorrow, there would be a slaughter of Jews that would make the Holocaust look like a tea party.

There is no evidence which supports your claim that Israel would make peace if militant groups were disarmed. Most of the Palestinians Israel ethnically cleansed off their land, were unarmed peasants. If Hezbollah had not stood up to Israel, Israeli soldiers would now be in Beruit. The only reason we have a truce right now is because Hezbollah proved to be much tougher than Israel anticipated.

Before the Zionist movement, Palestine was about as Jewish as New York State or Argentina (2%). Even when the UN awarded Israel control of a majority of Palestine to Israel, the majority of people in Palestine overall and in the land awarded to Israel specifically weren't Jewish. The majority of the land in Palestine overall and in Israel specifically was owned by non-Jews.

The minority Jews didn't just get the most land, they also got control of most of the water, which is important in a desert.

An injustice on such a scale was bound to result in war and all the nations that approved the creation of Israel have an obligation to clean up the resulting mess.

Anyone who believes that Jews have a right to ethnically cleanse Palestine of Palestinians just because Jews dominated Palestine for a short time 2000 years ago ignores completely all the events which happened since.

The Romans dominated Palestine for a longer period than the Jews. Maybe Italy should have been awarded Palestine.

The Ottomans ruled Palestine for a much longer time than the Jews and like the Jews they were defeated by a foreign invasion. Do the Ottomans have a right to Palestine?

But if we are going to use this precedent of awarding sovereignty based on ancient historical and religious rights, then the first nations people own Canada, not Canadians.