The Mayerthorpe Tragedy- was it handled as well as it could have been?

[Outta here]

BTW, Hi Zan...:lol:

HI Juan!!

 

[VanIsle]

This is where I see a problem occurring with this case. The facts are being grossly misconstrued, and the mitigating circumstances are being poo-poo'd as if they don't matter.

Well, the facts need to be weighed with full awareness of what is fact and what is just vindictive rumour... and mitigating circumstances DO need to be weighed as well. Without those factors, this whole scenario might never have gone the way it did... as Hennessy's wife said in the interview - this could have quite easily ended with the death of an entire family at the hands of Roszko AS WELL as all those officers.

8O No - sorry but you are wrong. Roszko saw them as his helpers. He was bent on killing the police, not them. They were not afraid. Why can't you people see this? Do you not get it that Hennessey's were lying through their teeth. Hennessey's wife was simply being dramatic and trying to deflect the blame. You are forgetting that they went to bed with no concern for their lives. Hennessey left for the city for a meeting with no concern for the welfare of his family. They were not afraid for themselves and they did not care what was happening. You don't hand over a gun without knowing something bad is going to happen. Put yourself in Hennessey's drug seller's shoes. Remember that the man knew him well enough to call him for help fully expecting to get it. Are all of you naive enough to believe that he sold marijuana for Roszko once in awhile? Cheesman said that Roszko told them he was going to kill the police but Hennessey denies this stating that Cheesman never said that. In the same breath he states that Cheesman started going into the city and spending time with the woman he thought was his girlfriend. Obviously he was quite smitten and told more than he should have. Hennessey was not there. It's more than a little obvious they talked and Hennessey found out what Cheeseman said and went for the lie - denial. There was nothing heart wrenching about the interview with the Hennessey's. It was staging.

 

[VanIsle]

To anyone who believes they should not have been charged and convicted with the overwhelming evidence that has been presented in this case, it is my opinion that your provocative nature is rapidly showing your lack of knowledge in jursiprudence matters. Please don't answer the call for jury duty should you receive one, your lack of common sense and your thought process in these matters is suspect to say the least and your comments have revealed a serious stain in your moral characters.

 

[Ron in Regina]

The HK91 is a semi-automatic version of the G3 similar to the HK41, also
marketed to civilians. However, in order to comply with US firearm
regulations a number of modifications to the HK91 were made that do not
appear on the first pattern HK41. Internal parts that could allow fully
automatic fire were removed. A shelf was welded onto the receiver where
the push-pin of the trigger pack would normally go, to prevent installation
of a fully automatic trigger pack. This did not allow the use of the paddle
style magazine release and so the magazine release button on the right side
of the magazine well must be used instead. This was considered awkward
by many owners. It is otherwise identical to the G3A3/A4. Importation into
the United States began in 1974 and ceased in 1989, with some 48,000
rifles being imported.

Could it be converted to full-auto?
H&K 91/93 Full Auto Conversion Manual : How to convert HK 91/93 to Full Auto?

Does this really matter though? These two Jabroni's didn't alert the authorities to
the threat they helped to create. I believe makes then just a guilty as the guy who
pulled the trigger.
________________

 

[Outta here]

8O No - sorry but you are wrong. Roszko saw them as his helpers.

He coerced them - and they resisted his attempts to stash his truck there - several times - but each time he returned - once while Hennessy was away, and his wife was alone with the children there - this really freaked Hennessy out. Roszko implied harm by his actions, and by the presence of loaded weapons when he made Hennessy hand over his grandfather's rifle and then forced him to provide a ride home - and under the circumstances, at the time this seemed like the best way to get Roszko off his propery and away from his family.

He was bent on killing the police, not them.

That's not necessarily true - according to Hennessy, Roszko was intending to burn down the building with the pot in it - and that's all. I doubt Roszko had any reason to lie to Hennessy at the time about his intentions - and from what I understand, none of the men knew that there were several officers there. I don't think Hennessy asked or cared what Roszko would do after he burned down the Quonset… he was focused on getting Roszko as far away from his home and out of his truck as fast as possible. Period. Not alot of clear thinking going on at this time - and if it took all night for Roszko to formulate and carry out the plan to kill those officers, it would seem pretty obvious that the Hennessy's had no prior knowledge of his intent.

They were not afraid. Why can't you people see this?

I don't see it because it's not there for me to see. You are not stating a fact, you're inflicting your perception of events upon the facts as if this can somehow skew the facts to include an intention that is just not there…. and I would appreciate it if you'd stop inferring that my ability to perceive and process information is somehow lesser than yours because my interpretation of that information differs from yours. I don't believe either you or I have been tricked, manipulated or otherwise coerced into what we believe - we're grown adults and perfectly capable of coming to our conclusions without needing to imply insult towards each other to validate our own perceptions. If you have actual facts to corroborate your comments, I'll gladly concede that I've come to an erroneous conclusion - but even then, a less patronizing attitude would be more conducive to a friendly discussion.

Do you not get it that Hennessey's were lying through their teeth. Hennessey's wife was simply being dramatic and trying to deflect the blame.

Again, that's a pretty subjective interpretation of the situation - one that is not necessarily based on fact - unless you know something we don't?

You are forgetting that they went to bed with no concern for their lives.
Hennessy left for the city for a meeting with no concern for the welfare of his family. They were not afraid for themselves and they did not care what was happening.

Oh I disagree - I think they were very very afraid - still behaving stupidly, and likely so impaired by that fear that their stupidity was compounded by even more stupidity...

You don't hand over a gun without knowing something bad is going to happen. Put yourself in Hennessey's drug seller's shoes.

I have actually tried to imagine what I'd do in similar circumstances - I have been young, and I've been stupid. I've also associated with people who it took me awhile to realize they were too shady to be hanging around with ... this was sometimes discovered through observing and/or participating in choices that were either unsafe, unsavoury, or even unlawful. I know how easy it is for a lack of good judgement to become a snowball rolling downhill with the feeling that everything is out of control, and no idea how to stop it or regain rational control. Fear does that... well, to some people, anyway.

Remember that the man knew him well enough to call him for help fully expecting to get it.

This man expected everyone to comply with him - and was apparently prepared to go to whatever lengths necessary to ensure compliance - this is verified by others, not just the Hennessy's.

Are all of you naive enough to believe that he sold marijuana for Roszko once in awhile? Cheesman said that Roszko told them he was going to kill the police but Hennessey denies this stating that Cheesman never said that. In the same breath he states that Cheesman started going into the city and spending time with the woman he thought was his girlfriend. Obviously he was quite smitten and told more than he should have. Hennessey was not there. It's more than a little obvious they talked and Hennessey found out what Cheeseman said and went for the lie - denial. There was nothing heart wrenching about the interview with the Hennessey's. It was staging.

Obviously we're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[VanIsle]

I'm sorry Zan but you obviously do not understand the law so yes - we do have to agree to disagree.

 

[damngrumpy]

The fact is Rosco was crazy and the police never did much about him because they were afraid of him, why? Because even the police knew if they ran him through the system he would likely get off lightly by some judge. In addition, the police were poorly trained and that is what cost them their lives. This wasn't bad luck as all that means is they were not trained properly. The police are investigating themselves and that is not good. The senior command are trying to point fingers else where just like the poor guy from Poland. Rosco was capable of murder and they sent four ill equipped officers out there without an experienced senior command supervisor. Compare that with the Vancouver airport mess. Here the officers killed a guy who couldn't speak english, and shot staples at them. The thing is these cops were poorly trained just like the rest. We need to revamp the
entire force and make it accountalbe to the people they served

 

[JLM]

The fact is Rosco was crazy and the police never did much about him because they were afraid of him, why? Because even the police knew if they ran him through the system he would likely get off lightly by some judge. In addition, the police were poorly trained and that is what cost them their lives. This wasn't bad luck as all that means is they were not trained properly. The police are investigating themselves and that is not good. The senior command are trying to point fingers else where just like the poor guy from Poland. Rosco was capable of murder and they sent four ill equipped officers out there without an experienced senior command supervisor. Compare that with the Vancouver airport mess. Here the officers killed a guy who couldn't speak english, and shot staples at them. The thing is these cops were poorly trained just like the rest. We need to revamp the
entire force and make it accountalbe to the people they served

Yep, I think you may have touched upon the nub of the problem.

 

[Outta here]

I'm sorry Zan but you obviously do not understand the law so yes - we do have to agree to disagree.

Then let us do so and make our way to more pleasant discussions.... and I'm happy to show you how that is done without the accompaniment of condescending or belittling comments.

You have a wonderful day now, Island Pacific! ;-)

 

[tracy]

You know, as scary as someone may be I don't think that gives you absolution of any responsibility for your actions or lack of action for that matter. I admit to being a little biased. This could have been my brother dead. He's in a small northern detachment. You think that shootings happen in Toronto or Vancouver, but obviously little unassuming towns have their nuts too. If those people had just placed an anonymous call, this might have all been avoided. I wouldn't expect them to apprehend Roszko or anything like that, but a phone call was no threat to them.

 

[VanIsle]

Then let us do so and make our way to more pleasant discussions.... and I'm happy to show you how that is done without the accompaniment of condescending or belittling comments.

You have a wonderful day now, Island Pacific! ;-)

Zan, that post was never directed at you personally. The reality is that those words were not even mine. They were dictated to me by someone who felt really upset by this thread - my husband. They are just not a part of my vocabulary but I allowed him his say. He is not a member of this forum and does not plan to be. He watched the video - about 90 percent of it. He was so disgusted he could not finish watching. He knows the law and how it works. I can see part of what he sees but he has the trained eye of the police officer.

 

[Outta here]

Fair enough IslandPacific - your husband is also welcome to his opinion, and I'm sure he's earned it. FYI, it was the "well obviously you don't know the law" comment that tipped me over the edge... lollll Mainly because you're right - I don't know the law... but I didn't start this thread to debate the law, I simply wanted to process the details of this event and gain some broader perspectives.

I received that, but oddly, I don't feel any better about how this went down. No matter how I look at it, the ripples from that horrible day will continue to destroy innocent families for a long long time to come.

My take on this should not under any circumstances, be viewed as a slam on any police force anywhere - I have the utmost respect for their difficult work - but I also have the utmost respect for all human lives - even those who behave stupidly... I can't stress it enough - it's all about intent for me.

At the end of the day, I really can't see that justice has been served. But then, I suppose justice is a pretty subjective concept isn't it?

 

[VanIsle]

Sorry again Zan. Those also were his words. I was un-comfortable with that because I don't know it myself. I do know though that I could see that Hennessey was lying and maybe that's because I know a tiny bit more about this case. When his wife said "it could have been a family" I don't buy that. But you are right about it affecting families for a long time to come. The officers families in ways that the Hennessey's will never know.