The Man who said NO to Europe

[Niflmir]

I'm not exactly sure what Cameron thought was so unacceptable about a tax on financial transactions. The idea was to separate financial transactions into a class of trades (high frequency) and investments, and tax the trades. Since the income from financial transactions is already highly subsidized (it is taxed at 1/10th of the typical tax rate) this seems more than fair.

Oh right... the LSE is the only thing allowing Britain to hang onto its dwindling influence.

 

[Tonington]

Oh right... the LSE is the only thing allowing Britain to hang onto its dwindling influence.

Is that the London Stock Exchange or London School of Economics?

 

[Blackleaf]

I'm not exactly sure what Cameron thought was so unacceptable about a tax on financial transactions.

He thought, quite rightly, that such a tax would destroy the City of London, the world's financial powerhouse, which makes up 10% of the British economy (and over half of the EU's entire financial services sector). And, because of Britain's large financial sector, Britain would have had to pay a whopping 80% of an EU financial transactions tax.

I know the EU is set up only for the advantage of France and Germany and the French and Germans would like all member states to do things that favour only France and Germany, but I'm afraid Britain is different. Cameron was standing up for British interests - which is what the British people pay him to do - and not the interests of France and Germany. He also has the support of the British people - 62% support what he did with only 19% against what he did.

Basically, the French and Germans are jealous of the City of London's worldwide power and influence and want some of that for Paris and Frankfurt. They are trying to do everything that can to take power away from the City of London - which makes up a tenth of the British economy - to hand over to Paris and Frankfurt. The French and Germans thought the City of London would lose its influence when Britain declined to join the Euro. They were hoping that Paris and Frankfurt would therefore overtake London. This never happened and London merely pulled further ahead of Paris and Frankfurt and still has a bigger financial services sector than both of those pygmies put together. Now they are coming up with every trick in the book to take power off London to give to Paris and Frankfurt. Frankly, that's disgraceful and Britain showed them what for.

Britain's Chancellor, George Osborne, recently said something along the lines of: "Having the British accept a financial transactions tax would be like having the French accept a tax on cheese."

Oh right... the LSE is the only thing allowing Britain to hang onto its dwindling influence.

I would wager £100 that Britain is far more influential in the world than Germany is. Not only does it export more goods and services to the vast world outside the EU than Germany does (and Britain has a trade surplus with the EU but doesn't with the rest of the world) but Britain has played a leading role in bringing democracy to Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Where was Germany in those countries? It did zilch in Iraq and Libya. In Afghanistan it has troops but, whereas the British are fighting the Taliban and being killed and maimed, the German soldiers (who aren't allowed out at night) sit on their arses in their base all day drinking beer, watching TV and playing table football. It's no accident that Britain has lost more troops in Afghanistan than the other 26 nations of the EU COMBINED.

Not only that, but whereas Britain's population is rapidly growing (it is expected to be ten million people bigger in about 15 years' time than it is now) Germany's is rapidly shrinking and, in the not-too-distant future, Britain will overtake Germany as the largest nation in Western Europe and, therefore, most likely , as Western Europe's largest economy. (It must horrify the Germans to think that Britain is on its way to becoming the EU's largest member state and economy).

Yet, despite all this, you have a cheek to that that it is Britain with a dwindling influence in the world.

 

[JLM]

but Britain has played a leading role in bringing democracy to Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. Where was Germany in those countries? It did zilch in Iraq and Libya. In Afghanistan it has troops but, whereas the British are fighting the Taliban and being killed and maimed, the German soldiers (who aren't allowed out at night) sit on their arses in their base all day drinking beer, watching TV and playing table football. It's no accident that Britain has lost more troops in Afghanistan than the other 26 nations of the EU COMBINED.

Not only that, but whereas Britain's population is rapidly growing (it is expected to be ten million people bigger in about 15 years' time than it is now) Germany's is rapidly shrinking and, in the not-too-distant future, Britain will overtake Germany as the largest nation in Western Europe and, therefore, most likely , as Western Europe's largest economy. (It must horrify the Germans to think that Britain is on its way to becoming the EU's largest member state and economy).

Yet, despite all this, you have a cheek to that that it is Britain with a dwindling influence in the world.

Not all that surprising really - the last two times Germany tried war they got the sh*t beaten out of them, so it's good to see they are learning. :lol:

 

[Machjo]

Not all that surprising really - the last two times Germany tried war they got the sh*t beaten out of them, so it's good to see they are learning. :lol:

They've learnt respect for international law a little better than their British counterparts too with respect to the illegal war in Iraq. And I'm not using the word "illegal" just for effect. It's well documented that according to international law, the Iraq war was illegal.

 

[JLM]

They've learnt respect for international law a little better than their British counterparts too with respect to the illegal war in Iraq. And I'm not using the word "illegal" just for effect. It's well documented that according to international law, the Iraq war was illegal.

But then Saddam was highly illegal too, so one kind of balances out the other. Germany and France were both big disappointments in that war. :smile:

 

[Machjo]

But then Saddam was highly illegal too, so one kind of balances out the other. Germany and France were both big disappointments in that war. :smile:

Two wrongs still don't make a right. I'm still undecided about canada's involevement in Afghanistan, though it at least had the advantage of being legal. As for iraq, how can one country preach respect for the law and then not respect it itself. Leadership starts by example.

 

[JLM]

Two wrongs still don't make a right. I'm still undecided about canada's involevement in Afghanistan, though it at least had the advantage of being legal. As for iraq, how can one country preach respect for the law and then not respect it itself. Leadership starts by example.

Actually when the U.S. went to war with Iraq they were very compassionate about it, they concentrated on destroying infrastructure - not lives (except for Saddam and his cronies) Most of the death in Iraq was perpetrated by the insurgents. I'm not sure how much respect I have for International law. That U.N. is THE most useless organization I can imagine. They just stand by while mayhem runs rampant in many third world countries. Canada has the right attitude with Afghanistan, but Afg. takes a little more muscle than we can provide. If every peace loving country in the world got together and made up its mind to beat the Tallyban I'm sure it could be accomplished.

 

[Machjo]

Actually when the U.S. went to war with Iraq they were very compassionate about it, they concentrated on destroying infrastructure - not lives (except for Saddam and his cronies) Most of the death in Iraq was perpetrated by the insurgents. I'm not sure how much respect I have for International law. That U.N. is THE most useless organization I can imagine. They just stand by while mayhem runs rampant in many third world countries. Canada has the right attitude with Afghanistan, but Afg. takes a little more muscle than we can provide. If every peace loving country in the world got together and made up its mind to beat the Tallyban I'm sure it could be accomplished.

I agree many international laws need to be changed. But it's the principle that I'm getting at. I disagree with laws allowing abortion too but you don't see me running around bombing abortion clinics in a righteous crusade to save the babies.

following the same argument that I think the law is stupid, if we all thought that way we'd soon run into a breakdown of law and order because nobody agrees all of the time with any given law.

in fact, I actually supported the War in iraq until the UN opposed it. i disagreed with the UN's decision, but as a matter of principle opposed Canada's or anyone's military involvement in Iraq from that point forwards while still supporting debating changeing the UN's decision at the UN.

But the principle remains, if you want others to respect the law, you have to resepct it too. That's a basic principle of social organization and stability in any civilization.

 

[JLM]

I agree many international laws need to be changed. But it's the principle that I'm getting at. I disagree with laws allowing abortion too but you don't see me running around bombing abortion clinics in a righteous crusade to save the babies.

following the same argument that I think the law is stupid, if we all thought that way we'd soon run into a breakdown of law and order because nobody agrees all of the time with any given law.

in fact, I actually supported the War in iraq until the UN opposed it. i disagreed with the UN's decision, but as a matter of principle opposed Canada's or anyone's military involvement in Iraq from that point forwards while still supporting debating changeing the UN's decision at the UN.

But the principle remains, if you want others to respect the law, you have to resepct it too. That's a basic principle of social organization and stability in any civilization.

Good points! :smile:

 

[Blackleaf]

They've learnt respect for international law a little better than their British counterparts too with respect to the illegal war in Iraq. And I'm not using the word "illegal" just for effect. It's well documented that according to international law, the Iraq war was illegal.

And the British have learnt to ignore those UN laws which prevent us from doing the right thing.

 

[JLM]

And the British have learnt to ignore those UN laws which prevent us from doing the right thing.

I'm wondering if the problem is with the British or with the U.N.:lol:

 

[Machjo]

And the British have learnt to ignore those UN laws which prevent us from doing the right thing.

I'll take your lead. Would you like to join me in an abortion-clinic bondfire next month?

After all, when the law is wrong, it's time to take it in our own hands, right?

Or as Kipling put it:

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!

I'm wondering if the problem is with the British or with the U.N.:lol:

Neither. It's with individuals.

The UN is far from perfect, but it's one of the few relatively global international legal mechanism we currently have.