The gold dinar and the silver dirham.

[White_Unifier]

Maybe you need to learn more?

A Canadian "Gold Bank"......Investment Products | ScotiaMocatta

Globally, we have different distribution channels and delivery options for commercial and institutional clients depending on where you are located. Please note products are subject to a premium, and a minimum quantity may be required. For further information, please contact your local or closest ScotiaMocatta global office.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specie

But do all these coins conform to a common weight and purity? If not, then calculating their interchangeability at the local food market could prove tricky.

World Islamic Mint

Now this is interesting. As per today's rate, 1 gold dinars is worth 190.00 USD and a silver dirham 6.00 USD. At that rate, one dirham would be reasonable for most daily transactions while the dinar would be useful for more expensive purchases.

https://www.e-dinar.com/cgi/index.cgi?page=dinardirham&a=_4
Welcome to Dinarshops Network

So they already have their dinar and dirham mint, bank and e-dinar account, and a worldwide network of businesses that accept payment in dinars and dirham

My only question now is whether they'd accept non-Muslim participation.

A simple solution if not would be for a non-Muslim mint to create dinars and dirhams according to the same standards as the Muslim ones along with a non-Muslim bank and e-account and business network.

They got something good going for them. Why should we be left out?

Welcome to Dinarshops Network

Wow! I never realised how many businesses in the UK accept gold dinars and silver dirhams!

 

[petros]

That's great. Now we can sell more Maples and bullion to Saudis to mint their Donair cuz unlike Canada they don't control the gold supply.

What sort of deal can be "struck" so they don't f-ck us on oil prices and we don't f-ck them on gold prices?

57% of the world’s public mining companies are listed on the TSX and TSX-Venture Exchanges. Together, the two exchanges accounted for 53% of the equity capital raised globally for mining in 2015, totalling $6.8 billion.

 

[selfsame]

Truly in the economic and the financial, I don't understand much But there is such idea that the paper currency is something else than the gold and silver.

For this reason, in the Quran God dispraised those who hoard up the gold and silver and don't spend that in God's way in the charity, and God promised them with the Hell fire in the Next Life

Quran 9: 34, which means:
{34. Believers, [beware of rabbis and monks; because] many of [Jewish priests:] rabbis and [Christian] monks devour the wealth of people a unjustly, and impede [people] from God's way. b

And they who hoard up gold and silver and expend them not c for the sake of God – foretell them the tidings of a grievous chastisement [in the Next Life d.]

35. On the day when such [gold and silver] shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be seared therewith! "This is [the reward of] that which you stored up for yourselves; taste then [the chastisement of the gold and silver] that you hoarded up.”}
.......................................................................

34 a They devour the property of people in the name of religion, and they take the bribe to judge people [with injustice.]

34 b i.e. from His religion: the Islam religion.

34 c On the needy, the poor, the wretched, orphans, and widows.

34 d Whether they are Jews, Christians or Muslims; because God dislikes every nig gard and stingy one.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34
quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34

 

[White_Unifier]

That's great. Now we can sell more Maples and bullion to Saudis to mint their Donair cuz unlike Canada they don't control the gold supply.

What sort of deal can be "struck" so they don't f-ck us on oil prices and we don't f-ck them on gold prices?

Or we could do what they do:

1. Conform the Gold Mapleleaf to the standards of the dinar and the Silver Mapleleaf to the dirham. That way, they'd be interchangeable on a 1:1 basis.

Then organise a network of banks and shops that will accept the Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs (and by extension, dinars and dirham on a 1:1 basis gold for gold, silver for silver.

There you'd have to beginnings of a practical gold and silver currency.

According to the site I linked to above, not one shop in Canada accepts dinars and dirhams. One shop in the US accepts them. Over 80 in the UK and even more in Malaysia abd Indonesia and elsewhere.

Si at least in North America, if the Canadian mint and businesses play their cards right, we might be able to get Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs traded in some shops before the d and d here.

You said Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs are traded in normal daily trade. Is there a network of shops that accept them that you can tell me about?

When I was reading the links above, it turns out that the dinar netwirk, though perhaps started by Muslims, is not strictly a Muslim network, only Muslim inspired. Apparently it does welcome non-Muslims too.

Truly in the economic and the financial, I don't understand much But there is such idea that the paper currency is something else than the gold and silver.

For this reason, in the Quran God dispraised those who hoard up the gold and silver and don't spend that in God's way in the charity, and God promised them with the Hell fire in the Next Life

Quran 9: 34, which means:
{34. Believers, [beware of rabbis and monks; because] many of [Jewish priests:] rabbis and [Christian] monks devour the wealth of people a unjustly, and impede [people] from God's way. b

And they who hoard up gold and silver and expend them not c for the sake of God – foretell them the tidings of a grievous chastisement [in the Next Life d.]

35. On the day when such [gold and silver] shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be seared therewith! "This is [the reward of] that which you stored up for yourselves; taste then [the chastisement of the gold and silver] that you hoarded up.”}
.......................................................................

34 a They devour the property of people in the name of religion, and they take the bribe to judge people [with injustice.]

34 b i.e. from His religion: the Islam religion.

34 c On the needy, the poor, the wretched, orphans, and widows.

34 d Whether they are Jews, Christians or Muslims; because God dislikes every nig gard and stingy one.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34
quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34

Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.

Truly in the economic and the financial, I don't understand much But there is such idea that the paper currency is something else than the gold and silver.

For this reason, in the Quran God dispraised those who hoard up the gold and silver and don't spend that in God's way in the charity, and God promised them with the Hell fire in the Next Life

Quran 9: 34, which means:
{34. Believers, [beware of rabbis and monks; because] many of [Jewish priests:] rabbis and [Christian] monks devour the wealth of people a unjustly, and impede [people] from God's way. b

And they who hoard up gold and silver and expend them not c for the sake of God – foretell them the tidings of a grievous chastisement [in the Next Life d.]

35. On the day when such [gold and silver] shall be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be seared therewith! "This is [the reward of] that which you stored up for yourselves; taste then [the chastisement of the gold and silver] that you hoarded up.”}
.......................................................................

34 a They devour the property of people in the name of religion, and they take the bribe to judge people [with injustice.]

34 b i.e. from His religion: the Islam religion.

34 c On the needy, the poor, the wretched, orphans, and widows.

34 d Whether they are Jews, Christians or Muslims; because God dislikes every nig gard and stingy one.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34
quran-ayat.com/pret/9.htm#a9_34

Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.

 

[selfsame]

Although in other ayat, God also dispraised those who collect money without spending it for the charity in God's way and for the sake of God.

Like in the Quran soora 104, which means:
{1. Woe to everyone mocking [at people:] by making signs [with his hands or eyebrows], or saying words [with his tongue.]

2. Who collects money and starts to count it [but he does not pay alms out of it in the way of God.]

3. Deeming his money would keep him [alive in this World] forever.

4. By no means; surely he will be thrust into [Hell] 'that will break into several pieces'.

5. And can you imagine 'that which will break into pieces'?

[Then He – be glorified – explained it by His saying:]

6. [It is] the Fire of God, kindled [to a blaze.]

7. Which goes [inside their souls] reaching [their spiritual] hearts.

8. It will be [an enclosure] closed over them.

9. [They will be hanged in that fire] on adjoined pillars [like the posts of the electricity and the wire telephone.]}

More information is in the link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/104.htm#a104_1
quran-ayat.com/pret/104.htm#a104_1

 

[petros]

Or we could do what they do:

1. Conform the Gold Mapleleaf to the standards of the dinar and the Silver Mapleleaf to the dirham. That way, they'd be interchangeable on a 1:1 basis.

Then organise a network of banks and shops that will accept the Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs (and by extension, dinars and dirham on a 1:1 basis gold for gold, silver for silver.

There you'd have to beginnings of a practical gold and silver currency.

According to the site I linked to above, not one shop in Canada accepts dinars and dirhams. One shop in the US accepts them. Over 80 in the UK and even more in Malaysia abd Indonesia and elsewhere.

Si at least in North America, if the Canadian mint and businesses play their cards right, we might be able to get Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs traded in some shops before the d and d here.

You said Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs are traded in normal daily trade. Is there a network of shops that accept them that you can tell me about?

When I was reading the links above, it turns out that the dinar netwirk, though perhaps started by Muslims, is not strictly a Muslim network, only Muslim inspired. Apparently it does welcome non-Muslims too.



Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.



Give me your gold and silver so you don't go to Hell.

Just PM me your email address and then I can give you the P.O box where you can send me all your coins.

I'm too greasy though, so you can keep your fiat.

Why?

Other than oil what do the Saudis have to back the Donair? Nothing. They have no choice.

You can get spot price for a Canadian gold or silver Maple anywhere in the world.

There are shops that have no issue with you taking a pair of clippers and lopping off a quater gram as an example to exchange for goods, services or local currency.

It's how it's done in India as an example.

 

[White_Unifier]

Why?

Other than oil what do the Saudis have to back the Donair? Nothing. They have no choice.

You can get spot price for a Canadian gold or silver Maple anywhere in the world.

There are shops that have no issue with you taking a pair of clippers and lopping off a quater gram to exchange for goods, services or local currency.

It's how it's done in India.

The dinar is not backed by gold. It is gold. Though the e-dinar is backed by real physical gold in Dubai I think.

While the Mapleleaf is strictly an investment tool, the dinar and dirham are practically traded in shops, restaurants, etc. Show me a pizza shop that accepts Gold or silver Malleleafs. Show me a bank that allows me to do interac transactions with different kinds of businesses in gold or silver Malleleafs.

Does a Mapleleaf business network even exist?

At best, you can trade them for money, nothing else.

 

[selfsame]

Moreover, it is in the Quran 70: 18
{15. No, assuredly [he will not be saved; for] it is a blaze.

16. That plucks out the scalp.

17. It shall invite [all] such as turn their backs [from believing in God] and turn away [from believing His messenger.]

18. And hoards [money] and stores it [in the safe.] h}
...................................................................

18 h So that he keeps it in the vessel and does not spend out of it in the way of God.
The meaning: The ‘Blaze’ will draw them with its gravitational power.

More explanation is at the link:
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/70.htm#a70_18
quran-ayat.com/pret/70.htm#a70_18

=======================================================================

I think, in the past the gold dinar equalled 10 silver dirhams or drakhma.

Of course, it is not: Give me your gold and you will not go to Hell.
But give to God: that is give to the poor and needy; it is you yourself that expend, which should be for God's sake, not for the hypocrisy or showing to people.
So the expending in secret is better, although all of it is good, the public and the secret expenditure .. on condition that it be for God's sake, not for the sake of religious figures or their tombs or associating them with God: that is for God's sake and for their sake.

 

[petros]

Does a Mapleleaf business network even exist?

At best, you can trade them for money, nothing else.

Holy crap are you ever naive. Travel sometime maybe you'll learn that gold is and always will be currency. Just because it's not used the way notes are used in Canada or the US doesn't mean the rest of the world uses notes.

India is a perfect example of where you can lop a piece off a maple and buy a meal. It's gold. Gold is currency.

 

[selfsame]

Holy crap are you ever naive. Travel sometime maybe you'll learn that gold is and always will be currency. Just because it's not used the way notes are used in Canada or the US doesn't mean the rest of the world uses notes.

India is a perfect example of where you can lop a piece off a maple and buy a meal. It's gold. Gold is currency.

There is an obvious difference between the gold and the currency here:

When you give gold, the goldsmith will buy it from you, but when he sells it to you, he sells it as a jewellery work, so when you give him a signet ring for example he will buy it from you as gold, but when he sells the ring for you, he sells it at a higher price as a worked out piece of jewellary gold.

 

[White_Unifier]

Holy crap are you ever naive. Travel sometime maybe you'll learn that gold is and always will be currency. Just because it's not used the way notes are used in Canada or the US doesn't mean the rest of the world uses notes.

India is a perfect example of where you can lop a piece off a maple and buy a meal. It's gold. Gold is currency.

Do you have a link to that?

I've visited a few countries and never seen gold used in a shop the way you describe. I've never been in India either granted, but this is the first I read of that.

If you just slice a piece of gold off at a restaurant, how do you ascertain its purity and weight? I'm sure owner doesn't want to need to weigh each piece and have each piece inspected for purity. That's where a mint comes in.

There is an obvious difference between the gold and the currency here:

When you give gold, the goldsmith will buy it from you, but when he sells it to you, he sells it as a jewellery work, so when you give him a signet ring for example he will buy it from you as gold, but when he sells the ring for you, he sells it at a higher price as a worked out piece of jewellary gold.

But a dinar or dirham is produced more simply and so more cheaply and more solidly for practical exchange along with pertinent information such as weight, purity, etc. on its surface for easy communication of its value to a trader.

 

[petros]

Households hold $950bn gold in India - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site


The reason a maple is popular is people trust the Canadian mint.

How long before the riyal crashes again?

 

[gerryh]

Or we could do what they do:

1. Conform the Gold Mapleleaf to the standards of the dinar and the Silver Mapleleaf to the dirham. That way, they'd be interchangeable on a 1:1 basis.

Then organise a network of banks and shops that will accept the Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs (and by extension, dinars and dirham on a 1:1 basis gold for gold, silver for silver.

There you'd have to beginnings of a practical gold and silver currency.

According to the site I linked to above, not one shop in Canada accepts dinars and dirhams. One shop in the US accepts them. Over 80 in the UK and even more in Malaysia abd Indonesia and elsewhere.

Si at least in North America, if the Canadian mint and businesses play their cards right, we might be able to get Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs traded in some shops before the d and d here.

You said Gold and Silver Mapkeleafs are traded in normal daily trade. Is there a network of shops that accept them that you can tell me about?

When I was reading the links above, it turns out that the dinar netwirk, though perhaps started by Muslims, is not strictly a Muslim network, only Muslim inspired. Apparently it does welcome non-Muslims too.

First, why should WE conform to them? Why not they conform to us?


Second, How will you determine how much 1 loaf of bread is worth using this new currency? How would I get paid? Would my employer have to ensure he has enough gold and silver to make pay roll each week?

To begin with, we will need some kind of comparison to existing money as to what this new currency is worth so that we, as employees and consumers, will know we aren't being screwed by the change over.

But a dinar or dirham is produced more simply and so more cheaply and more solidly for practical exchange along with pertinent information such as weight, purity, etc. on its surface for easy communication of its value to a trader.

and the maple isn't?

 

[White_Unifier]

Households hold $950bn gold in India - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site


The reason a maple is popular is people trust the Canadian mint.

How long before the riyal crashes again?

If you read the article, they hord their gold. Not very practical as a medium of currency if you ask me. Plus most of it is probably in the form of jewellery.

First, why should WE conform to them? Why not they conform to us?


Second, How will you determine how much 1 loaf of bread is worth using this new currency? How would I get paid? Would my employer have to ensure he has enough gold and silver to make pay roll each week?

To begin with, we will need some kind of comparison to existing money as to what this new currency is worth so that we, as employees and consumers, will know we aren't being screwed by the change over.





and the maple isn't?

As a medium of currency, the dinar and dirham are already established with with an international network of businesses already trading in them. Can we day the same for the Mapleleaf?

In principle, the Mapleleaf is already interchangeable since it's still gold. But businesses would prefer 1:1 equivalency and not something like one Mapleleaf is equal to 1/23456789 dinar for example since that just wastes a merchant's time calculating such equivalencies.

Again, one is already well established as a trading currency, the other hasn't really made beyond an investment tool.

But yes, the Mapleleaf is simple, solid, and clear in printing its weight, purity, etc. on its surface just as is the dinar.

One is not better than the other per se. Had the Gold Mapleleaf already been established as a practical international trading currency and the dinar was a mere investment coin, then it would make more sense to conform the dinar's weight etc. to the Mapleleaf's standard.

Households hold $950bn gold in India - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site


The reason a maple is popular is people trust the Canadian mint.

How long before the riyal crashes again?

Yes, people do trust the Canadian mint at least as much as the World Islamic Mint and maybe more si, but the Mapleleaf us still used exclusively as an investment coin. Why not exploit the Canadian Mint's advantage when it comes to its trustworthiness and combine that with the popularity of the weight measurements for the dinar and dirham, then you could have a Cabadian-made currency if intrinsic value that could trade 1:1 in any business worldwide that presently trades in dinars and dirhams.

 

[gerryh]

If you read the article, they hord their gold. Not very practical as a medium of currency if you ask me. Plus most of it is probably in the form of jewellery.



As a medium of currency, the dinar and dirham are already established with with an international network of businesses already trading in them. Can we day the same for the Mapleleaf?

In principle, the Mapleleaf is already interchangeable since it's still gold. But businesses would prefer 1:1 equivalency and not something like one Mapleleaf is equal to 1/23456789 dinar for example since that just wastes a merchant's time calculating such equivalencies.

Again, one is already well established as a trading currency, the other hasn't really made beyond an investment tool.

But yes, the Mapleleaf is simple, solid, and clear in printing its weight, purity, etc. on its surface just as is the dinar.

One is not better than the other per se. Had the Gold Mapleleaf already been established as a practical international trading currency and the dinar was a mere investment coin, then it would make more sense to conform the dinar's weight etc. to the Mapleleaf's standard.



Yes, people do trust the Canadian mint at least as much as the World Islamic Mint and maybe more si, but the Mapleleaf us still used exclusively as an investment coin. Why not exploit the Canadian Mint's advantage when it comes to its trustworthiness and combine that with the popularity of the weight measurements for the dinar and dirham, then you could have a Cabadian-made currency if intrinsic value that could trade 1:1 in any business worldwide that presently trades in dinars and dirhams.

Didn't answer all my questions, only the simplest.

 

[White_Unifier]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_gold_dinar

"Per the historical law stated above, one dinar is 4.44 grams of pure gold, while one dirham is 3.11 grams of pure silver. A smaller denomination, daniq, weighs one sixth as much. The value of each coin is according to their weight and the market value of the two metals. The coins may be minted at fraction or multiples of their weights and valued accordingly."

This means one dinar is always worth 4.44 grams if pure gold. A dirham is always worth 3.11 grams if pure silver.

From that, we can easily calculate the value of a loaf if bread.

Welcome to Dinarshops Network - Frequently Asked Questions

"Are there denominations of Dinar and Dirham?
Yes, the Dinar and Dirham coins come in the following denominations:
½ Dinar
1 Dinar
2 Dinars
5 Dinars
8 Dinars

1 Dirham
2 Dirhams
5 Dirhams
10 Dirhams
20 Dirhams"

Based on the standard weight of one dinar and of one dirham, we can easily know the standard weight of each of the coins above.

From that we can figure out a fair price for a loaf of bread or for a salary to pay workers. Plus no need to adjust wages to inflation over the long term since gold fluctuates little over the long term even if it might fluctuate in the short term.

Also, I would not support imposing the dinar and dirhams on Canada. Like everything else, we need an adjustment period. Instead, Canadian law could leave it to individual businesses to decide whether to accept dinars and dirhams, Canadian currency, or both, and then let the market take it from there.

 

[gerryh]

the market value of the two metals.

based on what currency?

 

[White_Unifier]

based on what currency?

Pick your currency man. If the dinar is convertible into US dollars, and US dollars are convertible into Canadian dollars, then can we not conclude that dinars are convertible into Canadian dollars?

 

[gerryh]

Pick your currency man. If the dinar is convertible into US dollars, and US dollars are convertible into Canadian dollars, then can we not conclude that dinars are convertible into Canadian dollars?

Then it is just another currency which achieves it's value from another. What is the benefit?

Plus, it's value fluctuates.

 

[petros]

As a medium of currency, the dinar and dirham are already established with with an international network of businesses already trading in them. Can we day the same for the Mapleleaf?

How many times do you have to hear yes?