The "evil socialist and capitalist" clishes!

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: The "evil socialist a

i have offered some aspects. you commented we won't see that type of progress for at least a couple hundred more years.

(i reveal things in a way where the reader gets to where i am going on their own. otherwise it is like trying to sell meat products to vegans)

So how about a few solutions for todays world Caracal, how do you suggest we make it 200 years into the future?

Example; Should we let Iran build a nuke?

It,s Jay,s right to build a nuke if he wants to , can,t see him
letting America tell him what he can do in his own basement with his own screwdrivers.

 

[Jay]

I agree with you modern unions in Canada and the USA don't appear to understand the current situation with the globalization of the world markets and really have harmed the "working class" in Canada by driving companies to bankruptcy. Case and point the airline industry.

That's why I don't think you're really a socialist I need to worry about. You seem to be the only NDP supporter that I've ever met that takes many of the stances you do, and therefore you lend credit to the movement, unlike other NDP people I can think of.

I agree with you on the above quote.

.....like Wal-mart needs a union. Where these employee's are paid little more them minimal wage, a health package which is a joke and too expansive for these poor families to use, and the fact that the policy of corporate policy of Wal-mart is to get there employee's on STATE WALFARE and STATE ASSISTANCE is basic thievery of the public wallet by Wal-mart! Keep in mind the hundreds of millions Wal-Mart grosses in profits every year. Truly this exploitation is not just in the USA but also in nations such as "communinist" China where Chinese workers are paid pennies to make the shirts we pay $20 dollars for.

And this is where I start to have a problem with the line of thinking.

I could understand if Wall Mart was a career path that you spent time and money going to school etc to land the job, but it isn't. It is a retail job, much like working at the record store, and it doesn't qualify as a good career choice normally.

Am I out of whack here when I have an opinion that Wall Mart jobs are dead end part time kinda jobs filled by students and retired people needing a little excitement in their lives, other people who want to work but can only do it part time? It isn't a skilled labour job etc? If you do get a full time job at Wall Mart you kinda go into it knowing that this isn't going to earn you anything substantial etc?

I fail to see why the government should force Wall Mart to unionize. The government sets minimum wage levels and the real issue is with them. It may be time to raise the minimum wage, but I don't think so, not yet.

The government already gives you free basic healthcare, free schooling up to grade 12, university is subsidized at 75%, and now people want to force retailers to unionize....I just can't see a plausible argument for it, not to mention it would change the basic nature of that kind of market, which is just government intervention, something I lump in there with everything else I call socialist.


The State welfare and State assistance you mention is an appealing argument, but it isn't something out of the ordinary. A good example would be eastern seasonal berry pickers. It would appear as if the government is more than willing to keep these people around, on unemployment insurance, so there will be workers in the area…..really it amounts to a subsidy for seasonal farmers and the rest of the industry. So this happens, and most people don't like to hear about it when they find out, but they don't go around suggesting the "evil blueberry industry" and not buying eastern blueberries.


Auto factory workers earning 75K (with overtime) wanting their healthcare for free? Teachers making 75K a year wanting their healthcare for free…..actually being supporters of statements like "no two tier health care". What's the deal? I thought the idea was no one left behind; I thought the deal was to help poor people....but if you think about it, that’s not the deal....the deal is socialism.

The radicals are sitting on the left, not the right.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against globalization or free trade. Unlike some people on the left I'm all for it. BUT it needs to be regulated with things such as labour standards, health care for the workers and sustainable wages and environmental responsibility. Besides that makes your millions in rich the nations you trade with and please, it does truly bring down the prices of things for all of us and usually increases the job market in both (all) nations. But when companies like wal-mart are permitted to run amok on the theory of lazier-fair capitalism, I'm against that.

I agree with the labour standards for sure. That's what governments are supposed to be doing. But the laws must be left up to the respective jurisdiction. It isn't an issue for the UN or anything like it.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: The "evil socialist and capitalist" clishe

Sorry I forgot to mention, education ought to be privatized too, user pay!

There is nothing wrong with private education....it's a hell of alot better than having the communists in China running the system.

 

[Finder]

Well some governments don't look out for it's people. My case which I used for Wal-Mart, being Communist China which is supposed to be using a blending of Socialism and Capitalism right now is more on the side of complete state capitalism to enrich the few and not protect the working class. If there is any case for a Communist nation going to the other wing, that would be China.

See the problem is how you see Wal-Mart. you see it has a stepping stone job. But so many American's, Canadian's Chiness depend on Wal-Mart to make there living. As Wal-Mart comes into small towns and destory the local indestry where do those people go who have been deplaced by Wal-Mart? Well the only place which is highering in town, which is the Wal-Mart. Companies like Wal-Mart can not be trusted this day and age with there record profits and thier abuse of the state Wellfare system and sugjecting there employee's to substandard wages.

One of two things need to happen here, 1. A Wal-mart needs a union to fight for the underpaid workers. OR 2. The State will have to regulate Wal-Mart and other indestries like them so that the workers get a far deal and the tax payers do because Wal-mart using the Wellfare state is..... beyound belief to me and should be illegal.


Besides that there are many on the centre left who see's things like me. I mean look at the Ontario NDP when they were in power. True they were extremly unpopuler near the end, but what killed them? The union's. The Union's killed the NDP because of the social contract. Now Ontario and the world was in recession and the NDP spent a lot but many other governments did too to try to jump start the econimies but this was good aumo for the Conservatives in the election to come.


Anyhow thats my peace.