Stem Cells with ethics.
- Thread starter Ocean Breeze
- Start date
Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone.
There are stem cells from other sources, such as baby teeth, and harvesting them is not murder, because they're just a body part, they cannot become a human by their own devices. But the initial cluster is human. If you say they're not human, then when do they become human? At birth? But fetuses have life signs and brain waves before their born, so when then? The one moment when life begins, can only be defined as contraception.
There are stem cells from other sources, such as baby teeth, and harvesting them is not murder, because they're just a body part, they cannot become a human by their own devices. But the initial cluster is human. If you say they're not human, then when do they become human? At birth? But fetuses have life signs and brain waves before their born, so when then? The one moment when life begins, can only be defined as contraception.
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
the operative question in all this is VIABLE self sustainable life.(or even with medical assistance) ....... and that does not happen until about the three month period of gestation. Get a good book on Obstetrics (Professional version) and the data is there.
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Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone. "
wrong. these stem cells have to be nourished in order to develope and go through the stages of gestation.
p106_peppy said:
the operative question in all this is VIABLE self sustainable life.(or even with medical assistance) ....... and that does not happen until about the three month period of gestation. Get a good book on Obstetrics (Professional version) and the data is there.
(
Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone. "
wrong. these stem cells have to be nourished in order to develope and go through the stages of gestation.
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
What about a handycaped person with a feeding tube? are they not alive? This person would be human, even though they need assistance to survive, as is a cluster of stem cells, which needs assistance from its mothers womb. Give it the right conditions and it will grow. Just because circumstances take away these conditions, does not make it less of a human.
So is a child not a person if it cannot nourish itself? I believe there is another post on this board about a kid who died because his parents starved him. So was that death jusified because the kid couldent look after himself?
In the natural conditions, the womb, or conditions that mimic this, a cluster of cells will grow into a recognizable human.
Ocean Breeze said:
What about a handycaped person with a feeding tube? are they not alive? This person would be human, even though they need assistance to survive, as is a cluster of stem cells, which needs assistance from its mothers womb. Give it the right conditions and it will grow. Just because circumstances take away these conditions, does not make it less of a human.
So is a child not a person if it cannot nourish itself? I believe there is another post on this board about a kid who died because his parents starved him. So was that death jusified because the kid couldent look after himself?
In the natural conditions, the womb, or conditions that mimic this, a cluster of cells will grow into a recognizable human.
I don't quite understand why certain of you have issues with this. Did anyone even read the article? Scientists, it seems, have found a way to obtain the exact same benefits that embryonic stem cells yield while at the same time appeasing individuals who have moral, ethical or religious objections to it.
To me it seems like progress in science. Why is this discussion degenerating into random attacks on Christianity and excuses for people to announce their dislike of Bush?
To me it seems like progress in science. Why is this discussion degenerating into random attacks on Christianity and excuses for people to announce their dislike of Bush?
RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Because the Christians immediately jumped on this as an anti-abortion issue. Never mind that the eight cells being discussed came from a test tube and the seven cells left after the experiment keep on living, the every sperm is sacred types won't accept it.
Because the Christians immediately jumped on this as an anti-abortion issue. Never mind that the eight cells being discussed came from a test tube and the seven cells left after the experiment keep on living, the every sperm is sacred types won't accept it.
Fair enough. But this particular article was about the new methods to grow stem cells which have recently been discovered, not abortion, not the church.
Mad hatter perhaps you should read up on lil chimps ( I mean dubya) views on science. For petes sakes this is suppose to be a sitting president, one would think he would understand basic science. Course lil chimp is not religious, nor a christian, nope! just a tool to get himself elected, he understands ingnorance and fear and uses it to his advantage. Yup, only george bush would give Jerry fawell and pat robertson a door to the white house. Course lil chimp, he believes in the science of bomb making and weapons...again a neat tool to bully the world and stuff your pockets with greenbacks. Defend religion all you want, and we will continue to expose it for the farce it is.
The Christian right was already attaking the new technology on the news though. Even within this article, there are references to it.
Clearly the religion-based debate on this is part of the story.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122900705_pf.html
Scandal Surrounding S. Korean Researcher Deepens
New Allegations Include Government Officials in Coverup
By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 29, 2005; 2:42 PM
The scandal surrounding disgraced South Korean stem cell researcher Hwang Woo Suk deepened today as an investigator told reporters in Seoul that none of the 11 tailor-made cell colonies Hwang claimed to have created earlier this year actually exist.
BRIBING WHISTLEBLOWERS
Korean news outlets also reported that the ongoing probe into one of the biggest scientific frauds in memory had broadened to embrace allegations that government officials -- concerned about the shame such revelations could bring upon their country -- may have attempted to bribe scientists who were considered potential whistleblowers.
AMERICAN COMPANY LOSES VENTURE CAPITAL
"Unfortunately, the damage Hwang did can't be undone," said Robert Lanza of Advanced Cell Technology in Worcester, Mass., a company that had been racing to make the first customized stem cells but found its venture capital cut off when the Korean team announced its success.
"It can't be undone for us, and it can't be undone for the thousands of people who may die in the future because this research has been unnecessarily held up while [Hwang] played his games and traveled around the world like a rock star."
DOCTORED PHOTOS
That panel determined last week that at least nine of the 11 customized stem cell colonies that Hwang had claimed to have made earlier this year were fakes. Much of the evidence for those nine colonies, the panel had said, involved doctored photographs of two other colonies.
In a conversation with reporters today, panel spokeswoman Roe Jung Hye said the two colonies are real. But rather than being genetically matched to patients, as had been claimed, Roe said, they are ordinary stem cells, apparently derived from embryos at a Seoul fertility clinic.
That finding demolishes the last shred of credibility of what had been hailed as a seminal contribution to biomedical science: the alleged first creation of human embryonic stem cells matched to patients who might benefit from them.
IS DOG CLONE REAL ?
The panel is still looking into Hwang's August claim to have produced the world's first cloned dog -- an Afghan named Snuppy. Although preliminary results from a human DNA testing firm were reported yesterday to confirm Snuppy's status as a clone, the panel has called for additional tests by animal DNA specialists.
Also still under a cloud is Hwang's 2004 publication in Science claiming the first creation of stem cells from any cloned human embryo.
FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLAR BRIBE
A Korean news outlet also reported today that two members of Hwang's team now working at the University of Pittsburgh -- Kim Seon Jong and Park Jong Hyuk -- received payments amounting to as much as $50,000 around the time the scandal started to emerge.
TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLAR BRIBE
Chosun Ilbo reported that at least $20,000 was passed to Kim by another Korean scientist visiting Kim in Pittsburgh. That scientist, identified as Yoon Hyun Soo of Hanyang University, has acknowledged the money transfer, the news agency said, but claimed it was meant not as hush money but to help Kim with medical expenses.
Other news sources in Korea have reported that the Korean spy agency, known as the National Intelligence Service, has also acknowledged delivering funds to Korean researchers at Pitt, but those reports could not be confirmed.
The sole American co-author on the now discredited 2005 Science paper is University of Pittsburgh researcher Gerald P. Schatten. Schatten was the first to draw attention to the problem in November when he abruptly broke off his 20-month collaboration with Hwang, claiming he had come upon evidence that the team's results could not be trusted.
© 2005 The Washington Post Company
Scandal Surrounding S. Korean Researcher Deepens
New Allegations Include Government Officials in Coverup
By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 29, 2005; 2:42 PM
The scandal surrounding disgraced South Korean stem cell researcher Hwang Woo Suk deepened today as an investigator told reporters in Seoul that none of the 11 tailor-made cell colonies Hwang claimed to have created earlier this year actually exist.
BRIBING WHISTLEBLOWERS
Korean news outlets also reported that the ongoing probe into one of the biggest scientific frauds in memory had broadened to embrace allegations that government officials -- concerned about the shame such revelations could bring upon their country -- may have attempted to bribe scientists who were considered potential whistleblowers.
AMERICAN COMPANY LOSES VENTURE CAPITAL
"Unfortunately, the damage Hwang did can't be undone," said Robert Lanza of Advanced Cell Technology in Worcester, Mass., a company that had been racing to make the first customized stem cells but found its venture capital cut off when the Korean team announced its success.
"It can't be undone for us, and it can't be undone for the thousands of people who may die in the future because this research has been unnecessarily held up while [Hwang] played his games and traveled around the world like a rock star."
DOCTORED PHOTOS
That panel determined last week that at least nine of the 11 customized stem cell colonies that Hwang had claimed to have made earlier this year were fakes. Much of the evidence for those nine colonies, the panel had said, involved doctored photographs of two other colonies.
In a conversation with reporters today, panel spokeswoman Roe Jung Hye said the two colonies are real. But rather than being genetically matched to patients, as had been claimed, Roe said, they are ordinary stem cells, apparently derived from embryos at a Seoul fertility clinic.
That finding demolishes the last shred of credibility of what had been hailed as a seminal contribution to biomedical science: the alleged first creation of human embryonic stem cells matched to patients who might benefit from them.
IS DOG CLONE REAL ?
The panel is still looking into Hwang's August claim to have produced the world's first cloned dog -- an Afghan named Snuppy. Although preliminary results from a human DNA testing firm were reported yesterday to confirm Snuppy's status as a clone, the panel has called for additional tests by animal DNA specialists.
Also still under a cloud is Hwang's 2004 publication in Science claiming the first creation of stem cells from any cloned human embryo.
FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLAR BRIBE
A Korean news outlet also reported today that two members of Hwang's team now working at the University of Pittsburgh -- Kim Seon Jong and Park Jong Hyuk -- received payments amounting to as much as $50,000 around the time the scandal started to emerge.
TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLAR BRIBE
Chosun Ilbo reported that at least $20,000 was passed to Kim by another Korean scientist visiting Kim in Pittsburgh. That scientist, identified as Yoon Hyun Soo of Hanyang University, has acknowledged the money transfer, the news agency said, but claimed it was meant not as hush money but to help Kim with medical expenses.
Other news sources in Korea have reported that the Korean spy agency, known as the National Intelligence Service, has also acknowledged delivering funds to Korean researchers at Pitt, but those reports could not be confirmed.
The sole American co-author on the now discredited 2005 Science paper is University of Pittsburgh researcher Gerald P. Schatten. Schatten was the first to draw attention to the problem in November when he abruptly broke off his 20-month collaboration with Hwang, claiming he had come upon evidence that the team's results could not be trusted.
© 2005 The Washington Post Company